Cam Rayner

[Elmer_Hauser]

Trade bait for the Lions ??

 

[danster168]

What a tragedy Spargo has proved you wrong then Danster.

You can let me know about it in the spargo thread. Regarding Rayner. I couldn't have been more correct. 30th in the draft is definitely accurate.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Rayner proved me right. I know my stuff.

Hate to break it too you- Spargo is not even getting a game you simpleton.

 

[danster168]

Hate to break it too you- Spargo is not even getting a game you simpleton.

that's fine. I was wrong on spargo, but right on Rayner. Spargo wouldn't be playing any worse than Rayner though if he was playing.

 

[PTizzle]

Trade bait for the Lions ??

Would be rated higher internally than what he'd be worth on the open market. Can't see it happening.

 

[M Malice]

Trade bait for the Lions ??

I hear the Lions are offering up Rayner and Daniel Rich(homesick) for pick 1 from the Eagles... we may throw in Dev Robertson as the sweetener to get it over the line.

 

[Nunez]

Frankly Rayner needs to be used in positions he can flourish. He performed his role as a HFF fine but ultimately he's either a centre mid or a third tall forward - so until we utilise him the right way we will not get the most out of him.

 

[danster168]

What a tragedy Spargo has proved you wrong then Danster.

remember when you said Rayner was above Petty

 

[Meteoric Rise]

remember when you said Rayner was above Petty

He is. Petty has just had a career game. It is not like that is his level.

 

[danster168]

He is. Petty has just had a career game. It is not like that is his level.

haha. he plays at this level all of the time. Just in defence. He isn't even a forward and look what he can do

 

[Meteoric Rise]

haha. he plays at this level all of the time. Just in defence. He isn't even a forward and look what he can do

Of course. That's why he has played 60 games in 6 seasons and received exactly 2 coaches votes.

 

[danster168]

Of course. That's why he has played 60 games in 6 seasons and received exactly 2 coaches votes.

he's a top 10 player on our list. ask any dees fan. is rayner top 15 at Brisbane? top 18?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

he's a top 10 player on our list. ask any dees fan. is rayner top 15 at Brisbane? top 18?

Has he ever finished top 10 in your b&f? What is his best finish?

Played a terrific game today and is a really good honest player worth about where I rated him, around pick 18-19 from memory.

Did you rate Spargo above him danster?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

If the 2017 draft was done again:
In my opinion. And I think Rayner has no business being in the top 21 conversation. 22-30 he can be in that mix but the top 21 have all done much more and have all carved out extremely important roles and have shown to be good AFL players.

1. Naughton
2. Brayshaw
3. Tim Kelly
4. Fritsch
5. Zac Bailey
6. Oscar Allen
7. Cerra
8. Davies-Uniacke
9. Liam Ryan
10. Balta
11. Wil Powell
12. Starcevich
13. Sam Taylor
14. Dylan Moore
15. Liam Baker
16. Tom McCartin
17. Mihocek
18. Spargo
19. Worpel
20. Brent Daniels
21. Petty
-------------------------------------
22. Miers
23. Switkowski
24. Ben Paton
25. Xerrie
26. Ainsworth
27. Paton
28. Jack Higgins
29. Roarke Smith
30. Rayner
31. Nick Holman

I wouldn't mind seeing you rank the top 30.

Ok let’s have a go at re-rating the best of the 2017 draft. I will apply one simple criteria to my ratings, what draft pick/s would I be prepared to part with to trade these players in to my notional team at the end of season 2022 as things stand. I will assume each player fully fit and at his best, and not affected by past injuries. I will rate all of your guys plus the following:

Dow, O’Brien, Clark, Coffield, Bonar, D Fogarty, Brander, Ed Richards, L Fogarty, Coleman-Jones, De Koning, Petrucelle, McPherson, Ballard, Farrell, Z Langdon, H Jones, Amartey, Miller, L Murphy, who I think all can possibly make AFL regular players yet.

The figure to the left is where I rank them in this field, the figure to the right is the pick I would give up for them. If I wouldn’t trade a top 50 pick for them this is left blank.

1 Brayshaw - looks a fairly complete mid. Pick 2
2 Naughton - brilliant KPP, best of this group. Like to see improve set shots. Pick 2

3 Balta - adaptable KPP and second ruck, has huge weapons. Pick 3

4 Sam Taylor - class Key defender already. Pick 5
5 Cerra - always tracked a bit below Brayshaw but looks a strong mid Pick 5

After that there is a bit of a gap from what I have seen so far.

6 Bailey - Lions were right onto this bloke. Wing, mid, half back, small forward all look within his capabilities. Pick 8
7 Clark - in between getting hurt has shown good ability at half back and mid. Pick 8
8 Uniacke - shown just enough to suggest he can be a strong mid, good weapons. Pick 8

9. Rayner - his potential is strong enough that I couldn’t place him lower in this field. Pick 10

10. Allen - Really tidy undersized KPP. I feel he is over-rated a bit but I still rate him highly, loved his work in defence. Pick 12
11 McCartin - another very good KPP. Pick 12.

I have another gap here.

12. Ed Richards - will surprise some, but been watching him closely, he is getting stronger, is fast and good disposal. Not sure his best position yet. Pick 15
13 Paton - was killing them before his massive injury. Gets back to his best he is well worth this rating. Pick 15
14 de Koning - disappointed in him this year but still expect him to be a strong ruck/forward as he fills out. Pick 15

15. Ryan - I think he would do better in a different team where he is targetted more, or there are more loose balls so this could even be a bit low. Pick 18
16. Fritsch - Class hybrid forward, would be around pick 10 as would Ryan above but both are 2 years older than this group so marked down. Pick 18
17. Petty - Very impressed 2021 but want to see a bit more in different situations. At worst a really solid 2nd KPD Pick 18
18. Dylan Moore - Seems to be rapidly rising through the ranks now, looking a very accomplished player. Pick 18
19. Ballard - Maturing 2nd KPD or intercept marker. Has been attending a tough school, but he can stand up to it now. Pick 18

20. Switkowski - I like this bloke. Looks like a dog’s breakfast but he can really play. Pick 20
21. Powell - Possibly a bit low. Another very tidy footballer who will have a good career. Pick 20
22. Baker - Tiny, but too tough and skilled to be any lower. Marked down slightly as a year older than most of this group. Pick 20
23. Daniels - Gone off the radar slightly with injury but like how he is shaping. Pick 20

24. Ainsworth - also been in a difficult college but is a very decent player. Pick 22 EDIT: Wrong Ainsworth here. This guy was drafted by Eagles and delisted, Ben Ainsworth the very tidy Suns player was drafted a year prior to this draft.

I see another gap here.

25. Higgins - Might be under-rating him. Got plenty going for him. Tiny though and queries on his team first intent. Pick 25
26. Kelly - Class player but at 28 his trade value is diminished with most of his best years spent. Pick 25
27. Starcevich - good player, strong, good disposal. Not sure about his speed and running ability. Pick 25
28. Coleman-Jones - confidence probably a bit shot at the moment, but should play plenty of AFL footy and capable of filling a very useful role. Pick 25
29. Xerri - I rate this guy from what I have seen, unsure if he can become a really good player but will always be competitive. Pick 25
30. Spargo - solid small forward, always team first. Decent skills. Worth at least this pick, but not a world beater. Pick 25.

After this I think we are getting into speculative players or guys with known queries on them.

31. H Jones - Saw enough of him last year to suggest he can be a decent second tall forward. Pick 30. EDIT: This is actually the Hawthorn Harrison Jones not the Essendon one who was drafted later. This bloke didn’t make it. He played one game and was cut.


32. Coffield - Seemingly not adapted to AFL brilliantly, but has shown enough to suggest a decent career. Pick 30

33. Mihocek - can obviously play but 29yo limits his trade value. As a 23yo I would have him around the pick 20 mark. Pick 35
34. Roarke Smith - going better from half way through last year, but dropped again now. Marked down a bit due to 2 years older than this group. Pick 35
35. Bonar - good size, struggled with injuries a bit, I still believe he can be a decent AFL player. Pick 35
36. Farrell - great kick and has speed, unsure about the rest of his game. Pick 35

37. Worpel - Played plenty of midfield. Not great disposal and not many weapons. Hard to rate but I don’t rate him highly. Pick 38

38. Holman - Great intent, Sub-par skills. Tough not to like him but has a definite ceiling. Originally drafted 2015. Pick 42

Others I would give a pick below 50 for:

Miller - Impressing Tiger supporters in his few games need to see if he is competitive in a wider variety of situations. Pace, height and a really good kick.
Dow - If he doesn’t fix his kicking forget about it. On the hope that he could I would trade a 3rd rounder for him.
Petrucelle - has shown glimpses but stocks are waning.
Z Langdon - not the worst small forward.
McPherson - good competitor unsure if he has the tools.
Amartey - Looks brilliant at times VFL level and shown glimpses in the AFL. Worth a speculative pick.
Murphy - Smart player. Happy to have on list, not a world beater.

Avoiding:

D Fogarty - too short for his mobility too slow for his height. His big weapon, his kicking for goal, also seems to have deserted him, hopefully temporarily.
G Miers - Runs really well. Hate the stupid kicking style. Would need to harden up before I would consider him. Not impossible he will I guess.
L Fogarty - reasonable runner and tackler but poor kick and not sure about his decision making and positioning at times. Not for me.
Brander - Not writing this guy off but big questions on his appetite for the contest for now.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Of course. That's why he has played 60 games in 6 seasons and received exactly 2 coaches votes.

Plays clearly the best game of his career- nah man that’s his level, plays like that every week

 

[Meteoric Rise]

he's a top 10 player on our list. ask any dees fan. is rayner top 15 at Brisbane? top 18?

So above are yours and my re-ratings of the 2017 draft that we both did early in the 2022 season.

You had Charlie Spargo ahead of Petty.

I will give you wins over me for Balta, Allen, Miers based on what they have done since.

I will take the points for Taylor, Richards, and I had Petty higher than you.

The mature players we will never be able to say definitively as we each re-rated the draft on a different basis. You went for overall value since drafted I rated them based n their trade value at end of 2022.

As I predicted we both got plenty wrong. Rayner is worth comfortably more than your pick 30 but based on this season in particular, they probably wouldn't get pick 9 for him where i rated him. He would be worth somewhere in the middle of those right now. But with finals to come, it would be a much better time to calculate his value at the end of this season.

 

[danster168]

How could you be? He was pick 1 in the 2017 draft and he went before: Andrew Brayshaw, Davies-Uniacke, Cerra, Naughton, Zac Bailey, Balta, Tim Kelly, Liam Ryan, Oscar Allen, Sam Taylor, Fritsch, Tom McCartin, Liam Baker (rookie draft), Mihocek (rookie draft), Starcevich, Wil Powell and Worpel who are all significantly better players. That's 17 players better without even blinking. But I also think Rayner is worse than Hunter Clark, Spargo, Switkowski, Miers, Petty, Ainsworth, Brent Daniels, Roarke Smith, Amartey, and Jack Higgins. So that's 27 players that are better.

So you took Rayner at 1, when if done now you could argue he'd be ranked around 28. Obviously this is as of right now.

Meteoric Rise I stand by this post over a year ago. At this point in time, it's very hard to argue anything other than he's definitely worse than Petty, Miers, Ainsworth and Brent Daniels. So that's 21 players before even starting making cases for other players. Remember when you had Rayner over Fritsch Those were the days.

 

[danster168]

Plays clearly the best game of his career- nah man that’s his level, plays like that every week

As I said, in defence he does. He takes the oppositions best forward each week. Over May and Lever. he's a gun. Also, a bit rich from an Brisbane fan considering after Rayner played a good game against Collingwood an eternity ago, the Brisbane fans were calling him a gun. He's a fringe player. 14 possessions each and every week.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Meteoric Rise I stand by this post over a year ago. At this point in time, it's very hard to argue anything other than he's definitely worse than Petty, Miers, Ainsworth and Brent Daniels. So that's 21 players before even starting making cases for other players. Remember when you had Rayner over Fritsch Those were the days.

Ainsworth for Suns wasn't even in the 2017 draft.

Miers has shown great improvement this season in a few areas, but I am still not having him ahead of Cam Rayner. petty needs a much bigger body of quality work before he is anything better than a fringe rd 1 value player. Daniels is going better than Rayner this season statistically, and is a really good little player. But Rayner doesn't get statistical credit for a lot of his strong body work that is very valuable.

Just wait until after finals, then we will have a better idea.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

As I said, in defence he does. He takes the oppositions best forward each week. Over May and Lever. he's a gun. Also, a bit rich from an Brisbane fan considering after Rayner played a good game against Collingwood an eternity ago, the Brisbane fans were calling him a gun. He's a fringe player. 14 possessions each and every week.

If Rayner was a fringe player he would be in and out of the team. So you are way wrong there. Rayner missed a whole season with an ACL and still only 7 players from that draft have played more games than him since being drafted. He is holding down a position in what has been a strong team for 5 seasons now.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

As I said, in defence he does. He takes the oppositions best forward each week. Over May and Lever. he's a gun. Also, a bit rich from an Brisbane fan considering after Rayner played a good game against Collingwood an eternity ago, the Brisbane fans were calling him a gun. He's a fringe player. 14 possessions each and every week.

He plays the best game in his life and you make out he plays like that every week, stop it, it’s moronic, do you think no else watches the game. ? If I said after the Collingwood game about Rayner ‘nah that’s his level’ plays like that every week what would you have said because that’s the equivalent of what you just did. I can’t spend any more time discussing this with you because some posters are reasonable and logical and have interesting takes on things others just make you question if they can actually function in life being that dense.

 

[MisterMarcus]

I couldn't have been any more accurate in my assessment of Rayner going into this season.

A bust of a first round pick, let alone a pick 1. It was a very good good draft too.

Did Cam Rayner shag your missus or something?

I cannot understand this insane level of obsession with one player.....

 

[Nunez]

BoG tonight danster168 xoxo

 

[danster168]

BoG tonight danster168 xoxo

lol, is that what we've come to? celebrating 19 touches and 0 goal games? Talk about setting the bar low.

Best on? not even in the top 10 on the ground.

 

[Nunez]

lol, is that what we've come to? celebrating 19 touches and 0 goal games? Talk about setting the bar low.

Best on? not even in the top 10 on the ground.

Say you didn't watch without saying you didn't watch.