Cam Rayner

[danster168]

I was just raising the issue of assessing based on substantially incomplete season, eg Cam with his ACL and Oliver with his strike bans.

Cam had a full season last season though. And had 2 full seasons since his acl

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Needs a big two games if Brisbane are to win the flag.

Cameron will show up, as will Neale. Dunkley provides that grunt and toughness week in, week out.

Rayner's the one though. He's been incredibly overrated so far, but historically finals are full of players breaking out for a game or two and winning a flag.

If he performs it's that 5-10% that Brissy has lacked in the last few years

 

[KissKiss]

I agree you with you. But he was trialled at half back and he still couldn't find the ball.

Again he didn't play half back. This has been mentioned several times over the year. He played 3rd tall back. We were down to 2 fit tall defenders at the start of the year so he played the 3rd tall roll. Not half back and not a role that attracts huge possession numbers.

Personally think he actually was decent at it and he could have had a good year if hed stuck at it. But also feel like it would have wasted his potential still. He looks much better in his current third tall forward with bursts of him in the midfield. Fits the team so much better with Gunston out

 

[gungho]

Lets relax a little here yeah?

He is still a long long long way from being a star... He is currently projecting more of a Rohan than he is a 5x AA type player.

He clearly has the ability to take over games, he is definitely an AFL calibre player but yikes he has a long way to go to get to AA level yet alone maintain it.

I think you would find most neutrals consider him better than Rohan at the same age (significantly higher ceiling too).

 

[danster168]

Again he didn't play half back. This has been mentioned several times over the year. He played 3rd tall back. We were down to 2 fit tall defenders at the start of the year so he played the 3rd tall roll. Not half back and not a role that attracts huge possession numbers.

Personally think he actually was decent at it and he could have had a good year if hed stuck at it. But also feel like it would have wasted his potential still. He looks much better in his current third tall forward with bursts of him in the midfield. Fits the team so much better with Gunston out

it's all semantics. not half back but a third tall? He was trialled there in the pre-season so it was clearly a move to get him involved. Even Fagan said he had the licence to intercept etc. which is code for get the footy. He was playing on Lincoln McCarthy in the pre-season intraclubs. Yes McCarthy is a good overhead mark but he sure as hell isn't a tall. Rayner was trialled as a midfielder but failed. Then went in defence and failed. It wasn't until he played a good game in round 4 against the pies that they kept him forward. And since round 4 he's been deplorable. On the weekend, he played well. Just like every AFL player plays a good game every now and then. But he needs to play like like most weeks, not twice a year.

 

[twhowler]

it's all semantics. not half back but a third tall? He was trialled there in the pre-season so it was clearly a move to get him involved. Even Fagan said he had the licence to intercept etc. which is code for get the footy. He was playing on Lincoln McCarthy in the pre-season intraclubs. Yes McCarthy is a good overhead mark but he sure as hell isn't a tall. Rayner was trialled as a midfielder but failed. Then went in defence and failed. It wasn't until he played a good game in round 4 against the pies that they kept him forward. And since round 4 he's been deplorable. On the weekend, he played well. Just like every AFL player plays a good game every now and then. But he needs to play like like most weeks, not twice a year.

Do you reckon cam ‘deplorable’ rayner would sneak a spot in the dees’ forward line at the moment? Or too much fresh talent there with TomMac, BBB and the shack attack?

 

[Magpie Since 1986]

Do you reckon cam ‘deplorable’ rayner would sneak a spot in the dees’ forward line at the moment? Or too much fresh talent there with TomMac, BBB and the shack attack?

You forget Grundy has been sharpening his forward nous in the VFL.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

lol one good final and he's now the player every team wants.
Just watch him do his magical disappearing act in 2 weeks time. Footballers like Rayner will never be consistent.

Oh the Brisbane hater is back- still chipping away are we? Just about every thread isn’t it. Eventually you might get something right, wish you would do a disappearing act.

 

[Miller1971]

Ask yourself this

Do you reckon Craig McCrae is worried about Rayner?


Of course he is bloody is.

Rayner, Cameron, Bailey, Daniher, Hipwood - there is some serious firepower there to worry about, and now Zorko goes in there and create havoc as well.

Moore to Daniher, Murphy to Hipwood is easy. But then you have a midsized forward in Rayner that can sit on heads and bust packs, you probably need to play Maynard or Quaynor on him. If one of them is on Rayner, then you have Cameron and Bailey and very few teams have good enough small defenders to cover both if they need to use a mid sized lock down player on Rayner.

They can't play Markov of Hoskin-Elliot on Bailey and Cameron, so someone can get off the chain. Crisp could go head to head with Bialey on a rotation, but the problem with Brisbane is they score heavily. The Pies like to roll the dice and push hard forward, the Lions have the pace and players to kill them the other way. Should be a cracking GF if it ends up with these 2 teams.

 

[Happy_Neale]

he converted so he was good. But if he kicked 0.3. Just an average game. But I place a big importance on finishing around goals.

So if he didn't kick as many goals his game wouldn't have been as good? Fascinating insight.

 

[Elixuh]

So if he didn't kick as many goals his game wouldn't have been as good? Fascinating insight.

Its why Danster is one of the most respected posters on the Melbourne board. Truly big brain stuff.

 

[danster168]

So if he didn't kick as many goals his game wouldn't have been as good? Fascinating insight.

obviously...he's a forward. it's his job to kick goals. unless he's a pressure forward, which he isn't.

 

[jackenny]

Do you reckon cam ‘deplorable’ rayner would sneak a spot in the dees’ forward line at the moment? Or too much fresh talent there with TomMac, BBB and the shack attack?

He’d be struggling to sneak a spot, honestly. Rayner’s run of games has a lot more to do with his draft position than any actual output to date. The odd well-played game means very little; only a little over a month ago I saw Harry Morrison have a class game and beat up Collingwood. I don’t doubt his potential, but he hasn’t lived up to it to date (people were actually comparing him to Dustin Martin in his draft year; makes me wonder about Reid when he’s drawing the same hype and player comparison; just goes to show nothing is set in stone just because you show talent as a junior / draftee - thought Matt Rowell was going to be the next Judd in his first season / Elijah Hollands shows nothing compared to his juniors).

 

[RonnieRaven]

He’d be struggling to sneak a spot, honestly. Rayner’s run of games has a lot more to do with his draft position than any actual output to date. The odd well-played game means very little; only a little over a month ago I saw Harry Morrison have a class game and beat up Collingwood. I don’t doubt his potential, but he hasn’t lived up to it to date (people were actually comparing him to Dustin Martin in his draft year; makes me wonder about Reid when he’s drawing the same hype and player comparison; just goes to show nothing is set in stone just because you show talent as a junior / draftee - thought Matt Rowell was going to be the next Judd in his first season / Elijah Hollands shows nothing compared to his juniors).

But you’d take him over Brayshaw
Brayshaw might have AA, captain of last years 22u22 bnf(top 3 4 years in a row) AFL MVP and ave more score inv in 2023 but he doesn’t have the high ceiling like Rayner.

 

[Elixuh]

But you’d take him over Brayshaw
Brayshaw might have AA, captain of last years 22u22 bnf(top 3 4 years in a row) AFL MVP and ave more score inv in 2023 but he doesn’t have the high ceiling like Rayner.

Brayshaw was a C grade mid this year. Sad to watch how far he has fallen.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Brayshaw was a C grade mid this year. Sad to watch how far he has fallen.

It shows how good he is, even in c grade mode he averaged approx. compared to Rayner
More score involvements
(in btm 6 team)
Double the possessions
Triple the clearances
+120mt gain
Triple the tackles
And he did it with the same efficiency
Rayner has never reached a height to fall from.

 

[danster168]

But you’d take him over Brayshaw
Brayshaw might have AA, captain of last years 22u22 bnf(top 3 4 years in a row) AFL MVP and ave more score inv in 2023 but he doesn’t have the high ceiling like Rayner.

Rayner's high ceiling? He literally averages 14 touches and 1 goal a game. In a top 4 team. Switkowski is ahead of Rayner and by some margin. Let alone Andrew Brayshaw. Rayner is 24 years old, he's not 19. His acl was 2 years ago. This year was his year to stand up, and he didn't.

 

[Elixuh]

It shows how good he is, even in c grade mode he averaged approx. compared to Rayner
More score involvements
(in btm 6 team)
Double the possessions
Triple the clearances
+120mt gain
Triple the tackles
And he did it with the same efficiency

Rayner isn’t a mod but keep counting those possis

 

[RonnieRaven]

Rayner isn’t a mod but keep counting those possis

And AB isn’t a fwd but he still has more score inv

 

[Tom14]

It shows how good he is, even in c grade mode he averaged approx. compared to Rayner
More score involvements
(in btm 6 team)
Double the possessions
Triple the clearances
+120mt gain
Triple the tackles
And he did it with the same efficiency
Rayner has never reached a height to fall from.

Brayshaw is a great player, hindsight says we should have picked others ahead of Rayner at pick 1. That's not what this thread is about, there is a perfectly good re-draft the 2017 draft thread elsewhere.

This thread is about whether Rayner would go top 30 in that draft and/or is a better or worse player than a 'Charlie Spargo' - whoever that is.

 

[Elixuh]

Brayshaw is a great player, hindsight says we should have picked others ahead of Rayner at pick 1. That's not what this thread is about, there is a perfectly good re-draft the 2017 draft thread elsewhere.

This thread is about whether Rayner would go top 30 in that draft and/or is a better or worse player than a 'Charlie Spargo' - whoever that is.

I got danster to admit rayner > spargo a few pages ago. He has abandoned that claim.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Brayshaw is a great player, hindsight says we should have picked others ahead of Rayner at pick 1. That's not what this thread is about, there is a perfectly good re-draft the 2017 draft thread elsewhere.

This thread is about whether Rayner would go top 30 in that draft and/or is a better or worse player than a 'Charlie Spargo' - whoever that is.

I didn’t bring this to the table I’m just critiquing the meal.
I’m surprised you didn’t do your speak to the hawks supporter frothing over Rayner who introduced other players and redrafting

 

[KissKiss]

And AB isn’t a fwd but he still has more score inv

Im not trying to excuse Rayner but the lions are a bit weirdly low on a bunch of stats this year (same with Port I think too). For a top 2 team and one of the highest scoring teams of they year we don't have huge score involvement numbers. The lions generally just move the ball forward quickly and don't over possess the ball by hand especially. So lions players are regularly down played for having less stats than other clubs despite being more "efficient" in scoring and winning games

I think moving the ball quickly by foot you might only get 2 or 3 players involved in the goal scoring play, versus teams who run the ball by hand might regularly get 6 or 7 involved in the scoring chain.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Im not trying to excuse Rayner but the lions are a bit weirdly low on a bunch of stats this year (same with Port I think too). For a top 2 team and one of the highest scoring teams of they year we don't have huge score involvement numbers. The lions generally just move the ball forward quickly and don't over possess the ball by hand especially. So lions players are regularly down played for having less stats than other clubs despite being more "efficient" in scoring and winning games

I think moving the ball quickly by foot you might only get 2 or 3 players involved in the goal scoring play, versus teams who run the ball by hand might regularly get 6 or 7 involved in the scoring chain.

Agree on that rozee butters have ave possession counts but they have super high score inv that’s why they made AA.
Lions are a really high scoring team lots of opportunities to be involved in a score.

 

[Tom14]

I didn’t bring this to the table I’m just critiquing the meal.
I’m surprised you didn’t do your speak to the hawks supporter frothing over Rayner who introduced other players and redrafting

This thread has been running for 15 months. Other players and re-drafting was literally 'introduced' in the first page of posts.

In reality, it is about trying to understand the wonderful brain of Danster, not anything else.