Cam Rayner

[danster168]

It's a team sport, mate. Individual accolades are just one element

So he's a star that's a team player but just hasn't been awarded any individual accolades? please.

he was a spud in every finals match this year.

 

[adammania9]

So he's a star that's a team player but just hasn't been awarded any individual accolades? please.

he was a spud in every finals match this year.

He was great against Melbourne, and fine against Brisbane.

5x leading goal kicker in a side that's played three preliminary finals and a flag in that time is an accolade.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Tom Hawkins 327
Jeremy Cameron 280
Charlie Cameron 256
Taylor Walker 238
Jack Riewoldt 226
BRODY MIHOCEK 212
The rest

Fair enough, since he debuted rather than from the season in which he debuted. My error. I mistook Mihocek for being a player good enough to crack a game before round 11.

Regardless, he averages about 37 goals and 10 goal assists per full home and away season based on his average, about 2.1 goals + goal assists per game. More than 20 AFL footballers beat that average in 2023. So it is nothing to write home about.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

He was great against Melbourne, and fine against Brisbane.

5x leading goal kicker in a side that's played three preliminary finals and a flag in that time is an accolade.

It would be tougher to not be the leading goal kicker than to be the leading goalkicker for Collingwood.

Mihocek is an honest player and would get a game with most teams but he is competitive rather than any sort of competitive edge.

 

[adammania9]

Fair enough, since he debuted rather than from the season in which he debuted. My error. I mistook Mihocek for being a player good enough to crack a game before round 11.

Regardless, he averages about 37 goals and 10 goal assists per full home and away season based on his average, about 2.1 goals + goal assists per game. More than 20 AFL footballers beat that average in 2023. So it is nothing to write home about.

Mihocek a model of durability and consistency. Which is why he has been rewarded the greatest honour in football.

It would be tougher to not be the leading goal kicker than to be the leading goalkicker for Collingwood.

Mihocek is an honest player and would get a game with most teams but he is competitive rather than any sort of competitive edge.

Which side doesn't he get a game at? Would imagine the centre half-forward in the premiership side would get a crack everywhere

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Mihocek a model of durability and consistency. Which is why he has been rewarded the greatest honour in football.

Which side doesn't he get a game at? Would imagine the centre half-forward in the premiership side would get a crack everywhere

Right now Mihocek would not get a game as a forward at Carlton or Geelong or probably Brisbane. He would struggle at Port, Bulldogs, Crows. Melbourne or Richmond would have welcomed him with open arms in 2023. He is an honest player and good value for what I imagine his contract to be. That itself can be gold, but isn't something you are swapping any of the best 20 in a strong draft for imo. I don't like talking down about any player who gets the best out of himself, and he is a credit to himself and Collingwood, but his best is exposed at a definite and moderate ceiling, where loads of the players in his draft are just starting to hit their straps. Mihocek was just drafted at the age they are now.

Taylor Naughton Allen Balta McCartin Petty Ballard Fogarty possibly deKoning, there are 9 key position and ruck players you would take before Mihocek in a re-draft. I would guess his career will end up being ahead of the worst 1-2 of those if they have injuries or other issues. But the rest will have careers much stronger than Mihocek's.

 

[adammania9]

Right now Mihocek would not get a game as a forward at Carlton or Geelong or probably Brisbane. He would struggle at Port, Bulldogs, Crows. Melbourne or Richmond would have welcomed him with open arms in 2023. He is an honest player and good value for what I imagine his contract to be. That itself can be gold, but isn't something you are swapping any of the best 20 in a strong draft for imo. I don't like talking down about any player who gets the best out of himself, and he is a credit to himself and Collingwood, but his best is exposed at a definite and moderate ceiling, where loads of the players in his draft are just starting to hit their straps. Mihocek was just drafted at the age they are now.

Taylor Naughton Allen Balta McCartin Petty Ballard Fogarty possibly deKoning, there are 9 key position and ruck players you would take before Mihocek in a re-draft. I would guess his career will end up being ahead of the worst 1-2 of those if they have injuries or other issues. But the rest will have careers much stronger than Mihocek's.

Western Bulldogs is the only side he conceivably wouldn't play at, since he can't ruck. He's bigger and stronger than Ollie Henry who played every game when fit, would easily get a game at Brisbane as he's better than Hipwood, and on form is better than McKay at Carlton. He is also better than the options at Port and Adelaide besides Tex.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Western Bulldogs is the only side he conceivably wouldn't play at, since he can't ruck. He's bigger and stronger than Ollie Henry who played every game when fit, would easily get a game at Brisbane as he's better than Hipwood, and on form is better than McKay at Carlton. He is also better than the options at Port and Adelaide besides Tex.

Just taking Hipwood as an example. I will post their stats for 2023 below. Maybe if anything Mihocek has a tiny edge but it is very tight. But Brisbane aren't booting a 26yo with upside out of their team for a 30yo journeyman who at best is a minute upgrade in the short term. It would be a similar equation with Fogarty/Marshall/etc etc. Mihocek could go into these teams without making them worse in the short term but they wouldn't play him ahead of these guys with bigger futures. They would be mad to.

 

[danster168]

Mihocek a model of durability and consistency. Which is why he has been rewarded the greatest honour in football.

Which side doesn't he get a game at? Would imagine the centre half-forward in the premiership side would get a crack everywhere

Yeah, but put him in a team that actually has a decent forward line like Brisbane and he's a 1 goal a game goal kicker. He's a good average player.

 

[Caligo]

Mihocek a model of durability and consistency. Which is why he has been rewarded the greatest honour in football.

Greatest honour in football is subjective but I would say it is bnf in a flag season, I know a lot of afl players agree.

Hall of fame another option.

 

[Vintage]

Mihocek has carved out a great career for someone taken 2nd round of the rookie draft. Good on him and Collingwood. What a bargain.

Rayner has not done as well relative to his draft position. Whether or not he’s top 20 in his draft year might be argued, but he definitely isn’t top 10, which would be a real disappointment for the Blions

 

[danster168]

Mihocek has carved out a great career for someone taken 2nd round of the rookie draft. Good on him and Collingwood. What a bargain.

Rayner has not done as well relative to his draft position. Whether or not he’s top 20 in his draft year might be argued, but he definitely isn’t top 10, which would be a real disappointment for the Blions

Or top 30.

 

[adammania9]

Yeah, but put him in a team that actually has a decent forward line like Brisbane and he's a 1 goal a game goal kicker. He's a good average player.

Collingwood have a decent forward line. Brisbane scored a grand total of 38 more points in the H&A season than Collingwood this year. Ludicrous to suggest a player like Mihocek would dip with better players around him.

 

[adammania9]

Just taking Hipwood as an example. I will post their stats for 2023 below. Maybe if anything Mihocek has a tiny edge but it is very tight. But Brisbane aren't booting a 26yo with upside out of their team for a 30yo journeyman who at best is a minute upgrade in the short term. It would be a similar equation with Fogarty/Marshall/etc etc. Mihocek could go into these teams without making them worse in the short term but they wouldn't play him ahead of these guys with bigger futures. They would be mad to.

View attachment 1852147

"With upside" vs "journeyman" is completely subjective and used to suit your opinion. Fact of the matter is he is better than those options and would improve all those teams.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

"With upside" vs "journeyman" is completely subjective and used to suit your opinion. Fact of the matter is he is better than those options and would improve all those teams.

You say my descriptors are opinion(which they are) then present your opinion as fact, which it isn't.

Whatever, Mihocek has been a good player in his role for Collingwood, not more than that. From memory Collingwood low-balled him on his last contract renewal. The conversation was initially about Balta and Mihocek. Balta hasn't proven totally consistent or reliable so far but he was rated the 15th best Key Defender in the AFL last season, Mihocek the 20th best Key Forward. Mihocek isn't getting any better, Balta isn't getting any worse.

If Balta went on the market he would fetch some sort of 1st round pick, probably at least pick 12. Mihocek on the open market would never have attracted a first round pick at any stage of his career.

 

[Elixuh]

Hi Danster, I hope you had a wonderful Christmas and New Year. I wish you a prosperous 2024, may all your dreams come true.

I’m hearing reports that Rayner has gone to another level with his physique and is training multiple houses down. I look forward to seeing this thread pass 100 pages later this year. Speak soon.

 

[Gethelred]

Right now Mihocek would not get a game as a forward at Carlton

You'd have to be joking. Mihocek's a gun; incredible positioning and body work coupled with a deadeye set shot. Can kick them from regular play, can knock the ball to intelligent positions. Stronger and faster than he looks.

He'd absolutely play at Carlton; it'd be in a third tall position, but he'd still be taking marks inside 50.

... or Geelong

Yes he would, for more or less the same reasons. He'd work spectacularly well opposite Cameron, as it'd allow Cameron to play further and further upfield.

Cameron'd win a Brownlow.

or probably Brisbane.

He'd force Rayner out of the forward line pretty easily; not because Rayner isn't any good as a forward, but Mihocek averages more goals per game and would produce more goals for Charlie Cameron.

He would struggle at Port

Pbbbbft. Next.

Bulldogs

Are you kidding?

Crows.

This one's a little trickier. Tex plays a long way upfield as a medium player and they've got Thilthorp playing deeper; Mihocek would displace Thilthorp until he banged the door down, but he wouldn't displace Tex as Tex is considered a leader there.

He is an honest player and good value for what I imagine his contract to be. That itself can be gold, but isn't something you are swapping any of the best 20 in a strong draft for imo. I don't like talking down about any player who gets the best out of himself, and he is a credit to himself and Collingwood, but his best is exposed at a definite and moderate ceiling, where loads of the players in his draft are just starting to hit their straps. Mihocek was just drafted at the age they are now.

... and?

You judge players on output when evaluating them in their prime. By output, he's an excellent part of that front six and in another side could be even more of a target.

How do you think Hawthorn'd go with him ahead of the ball? Would he kick more goals or less?

Taylor

Had a great year last year, but isn't a better player on the body of evidence.

Naughton

Is extremely promising, and just coming into his prime. Has yet to meet Mihocek's career to date. We'll see.

Allen

Oscar Allen?

Oscar Allen and Brody Mihocek AFL Stats Comparison

Oscar Allen and Brody Mihocek AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Allan's still young and thus still in the potential category, but to date Mihocek's produced better footy.

Balta

You have got to be joking.

McCartin

Pbbbft. Next.

Petty

This'd want to be a pisstake, or you would want to be drunk.

Ballard

Good player. Not a forward. Has struggled to regain his best footy for a year or two. We'll see how he goes, but isn't a better player yet.

Fogarty

Do you really, truly think that Fogarty - as in, Darcy Fogarty - is or is going to be a better player than Brodie Mihocek?

Adelaide'd be stoked if he matched Mihocek for a season, let alone bettered him, let alone was already better than him.

possibly deKoning

Different position, different skillset, potential versus output. We'll see.

there are 9 key position and ruck players you would take before Mihocek in a re-draft.

Um...

I would guess his career will end up being ahead of the worst 1-2 of those if they have injuries or other issues. But the rest will have careers much stronger than Mihocek's.

Yeah, no.

He's got a club goalkicking in a premiership year. Every single player you listed would be stoked to match that feat.

So all in all, I struggle to see a way you could be more comprehensively incorrect even if you tried.

 

[Matrix10]

Has anyone found Rayner yet? He's been missing since the qualifying final, someone must have seen him.

Spotted at Wooloongabba KFC ordering the family feast box. for his own consumption.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

You'd have to be joking. Mihocek's a gun; incredible positioning and body work coupled with a deadeye set shot. Can kick them from regular play, can knock the ball to intelligent positions. Stronger and faster than he looks.

He'd absolutely play at Carlton; it'd be in a third tall position, but he'd still be taking marks inside 50.

Yes he would, for more or less the same reasons. He'd work spectacularly well opposite Cameron, as it'd allow Cameron to play further and further upfield.

He'd win a Brownlow.

He'd force Rayner out of the forward line pretty easily; not because Rayner isn't any good as a forward, but Mihocek averages more goals per game and would produce more goals for Charlie Cameron.

Pbbbbft. Next.

Are you kidding?

This one's a little trickier. Tex plays a long way upfield as a medium player and they've got Thilthorp playing deeper; Mihocek would displace Thilthorp until he banged the door down, but he wouldn't displace Tex as Tex is considered a leader there.

... and?

You judge players on output when evaluating them in their prime. By output, he's an excellent part of that front six and in another side could be even more of a target.

How do you think Hawthorn'd go with him ahead of the ball? Would he kick more goals or less?

Had a great year last year, but isn't a better player on the body of evidence.

Is extremely promising, and just coming into his prime. Has yet to meet Mihocek's career to date. We'll see.

Oscar Allen?

Oscar Allen and Brody Mihocek AFL Stats Comparison

Oscar Allen and Brody Mihocek AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Allan's still young and thus still in the potential category, but to date Mihocek's produced better footy.


You have got to be joking.

Pbbbft. Next.

This'd want to be a pisstake, or you would want to be drunk.

Good player. Not a forward. Has struggled to regain his best footy for a year or two. We'll see how he goes, but isn't a better player yet.

Do you really, truly think that Fogarty - as in, Darcy Fogarty - is or is going to be a better player than Brodie Mihocek?

Adelaide'd be stoked if he matched Mihocek for a season, let alone bettered him, let alone was already better than him.

Different position, different skillset, potential versus output. We'll see.

Um...

Yeah, no.

He's got a club goalkicking in a premiership year. Every single player you listed would be stoked to match that feat.

So all in all, I struggle to see a way you could be more comprehensively incorrect even if you tried.

Jesus give me a spell. This is Brody Mihocek we are discussing here. A key forward who averages under 11 disposals, under 5 of those from contested possessions, and 2.1 goals + assists per game, 5 score involvements per game, and has never kicked over 44 goals in a 22 match home and away season.

I rate his footy higher than your posting, but he is no more than a good value honest footballer.

 

[Matrix10]

It would be tougher to not be the leading goal kicker than to be the leading goalkicker for Collingwood.

Mihocek is an honest player and would get a game with most teams but he is competitive rather than any sort of competitive edge.

Best to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool , than to open it and remove all doubt .

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Best to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool , than to open it and remove all doubt .

campaigner thinks he is Dennis Thatcher now lol.

 

[Elixuh]

You'd have to be joking. Mihocek's a gun; incredible positioning and body work coupled with a deadeye set shot. Can kick them from regular play, can knock the ball to intelligent positions. Stronger and faster than he looks.

He'd absolutely play at Carlton; it'd be in a third tall position, but he'd still be taking marks inside 50.

Yes he would, for more or less the same reasons. He'd work spectacularly well opposite Cameron, as it'd allow Cameron to play further and further upfield.

He'd win a Brownlow.

He'd force Rayner out of the forward line pretty easily; not because Rayner isn't any good as a forward, but Mihocek averages more goals per game and would produce more goals for Charlie Cameron.

Pbbbbft. Next.

Are you kidding?

This one's a little trickier. Tex plays a long way upfield as a medium player and they've got Thilthorp playing deeper; Mihocek would displace Thilthorp until he banged the door down, but he wouldn't displace Tex as Tex is considered a leader there.

... and?

You judge players on output when evaluating them in their prime. By output, he's an excellent part of that front six and in another side could be even more of a target.

How do you think Hawthorn'd go with him ahead of the ball? Would he kick more goals or less?

Had a great year last year, but isn't a better player on the body of evidence.

Is extremely promising, and just coming into his prime. Has yet to meet Mihocek's career to date. We'll see.

Oscar Allen?

Oscar Allen and Brody Mihocek AFL Stats Comparison

Oscar Allen and Brody Mihocek AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Allan's still young and thus still in the potential category, but to date Mihocek's produced better footy.


You have got to be joking.

Pbbbft. Next.

This'd want to be a pisstake, or you would want to be drunk.

Good player. Not a forward. Has struggled to regain his best footy for a year or two. We'll see how he goes, but isn't a better player yet.

Do you really, truly think that Fogarty - as in, Darcy Fogarty - is or is going to be a better player than Brodie Mihocek?

Adelaide'd be stoked if he matched Mihocek for a season, let alone bettered him, let alone was already better than him.

Different position, different skillset, potential versus output. We'll see.

Um...

Yeah, no.

He's got a club goalkicking in a premiership year. Every single player you listed would be stoked to match that feat.

So all in all, I struggle to see a way you could be more comprehensively incorrect even if you tried.

You’re going to fit in perfectly in this thread. Welcome.

 

[gungho]

Right now Mihocek would not get a game as a forward at Carlton or Geelong or probably Brisbane. He would struggle at Port, Bulldogs, Crows. Melbourne or Richmond would have welcomed him with open arms in 2023. He is an honest player and good value for what I imagine his contract to be. That itself can be gold, but isn't something you are swapping any of the best 20 in a strong draft for imo. I don't like talking down about any player who gets the best out of himself, and he is a credit to himself and Collingwood, but his best is exposed at a definite and moderate ceiling, where loads of the players in his draft are just starting to hit their straps. Mihocek was just drafted at the age they are now.

Taylor Naughton Allen Balta McCartin Petty Ballard Fogarty possibly deKoning, there are 9 key position and ruck players you would take before Mihocek in a re-draft. I would guess his career will end up being ahead of the worst 1-2 of those if they have injuries or other issues. But the rest will have careers much stronger than Mihocek's.

Ah, the old player x won't get a game in this team argument.

I'm not sure how much footy you've been watching mate but guys that are 6 4" and average 40 plus goals a year don't exactly grow on trees in the AFL.
Brodie Mihocek would be comfortably in the starting 22 of every team in the competition.

 

[Gethelred]

You’re going to fit in perfectly in this thread. Welcome.

Nah, said what I wanted to say. Plus, got to wash my mouth out for being so complementary to a Collingwood player, so I'm going to be pretty busy.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Ah, the old player x won't get a game in this team argument.

I'm not sure how much footy you've been watching mate but guys that are 6 4" and average 40 plus goals a year don't exactly grow on trees in the AFL.
Brodie Mihocek would be comfortably in the starting 22 of every team in the competition.

Some players who have kicked between 40 and 50 goals in a season, which Mihocek has done twice(47, 41) or more....

2023: King, Henry, Amiss, Hipwood, and Langford got 51.

2022: Riewoldt(turned 34yo that year) Ginnivan(traded for a low pick) Chol(ditto) Marshall, Heeney, Bolton(playing mainly midfield) Peter Wright kicked 53, and Stengle a DFA kicked 53

2021: Bruce, Larkey

2019: Membrey, Finlayson & Sexton from GCS got 39, Sam Lloyd 38

2018: Caddy, Jenkins, Hoskin-Elliott and Tom McDonald got 53 & Josh Thomas + Stephenson(first year) 38

2017: Dangerfield(midfielder) Patton, Garlett, Hooker, Menzel

2016: Membrey, 33yo S Johnson, N Riewoldt(in the year he turned 34) Tory Dickson & Jenkins got 62 and Jack Watts 38, Aaron Young 37.

2015: Pavlich(in the year he turned 34) Josh Hill, Garlett, Waite, Petrie, Hogan(20yo) Tippett, Lecras, Jenkins, and Bruce and Tory Dickson got 50

There is a whole lot of either developing or cooked quality players in there or players who were traded for low picks or delisted soon after. So kicking 40+ goals in a season doesn't seem to signify high value, you mainly get these guys for a late second or third round pick in a trade. And it must be remembered, Mihocek has only achieved this twice in his 6 seasons with a next best of 36.