Past Cameron Cloke

[Bluebear]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Hammer needs to become a roughneck like Jamie Charman so Clokey doesn't have 2 take all the beatings in the ruck. Cam to become pinch hitter, Hammer and Kreuz with the main duties. Not yet of course.

If you take the "beatings" out of Cam's ruck work........no offence to Cam.......but there aint much left.

Hampson just needs to step up a little. He is only in his second year so we are expecting too much, but hopefully he will play and take another little step against Charman and Leuenberger this Saturday night.

Hope Cam gets well soon, we need his physicality in the middle.

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Round 10 stats: 12 possessions, 7 marks, 9 hitouts, 1 goal

Started the game off very strongly. got About 4 or 5 possessions, including a bullet pass to Fev, that very few ruckmen are capable. Was low, hard, travelled about 30-40 metres, and left Scarlett no chance of stopping Fev marking it. It was a kick we see blokes like Murphy do so often. Ruckmen shouldn't be able to have those kicking skills - was very impressive

However, just like he seems to do most games now, he faded out of the game after about the first quarter and a half. To be fair, nobody was sighted in the 3rd quarter where we got slaughtered, but Cloke seems to be starting all his games off real well, and then disappearing a bit. Fitness issues maybe? Also have to take into consideration that it was his first game back from injury.

He played a bit more as a CHF. Did OK, but nothing special. His goal came from a nice pack mark in the goal square

 

[Bluebear]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Round 10 stats: 12 possessions, 7 marks, 9 hitouts, 1 goal

Started the game off very strongly. got About 4 or 5 possessions, including a bullet pass to Fev, that very few ruckmen are capable. Was low, hard, travelled about 30-40 metres, and left Scarlett no chance of stopping Fev marking it. It was a kick we see blokes like Murphy do so often. Ruckmen shouldn't be able to have those kicking skills - was very impressive

However, just like he seems to do most games now, he faded out of the game after about the first quarter and a half. To be fair, nobody was sighted in the 3rd quarter where we got slaughtered, but Cloke seems to be starting all his games off real well, and then disappearing a bit. Fitness issues maybe? Also have to take into consideration that it was his first game back from injury.

He played a bit more as a CHF. Did OK, but nothing special. His goal came from a nice pack mark in the goal square

Am I the only one who swore out loud when he made that pass?
Unbelievable.

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Am I the only one who swore out loud when he made that pass?
Unbelievable.

Lol! I am not kidding, I was sitting downstairs, at like 12am (thanks to the late night replays in Sydney ), by myself, when he kicked it, and I actually said "holy crap" in this surprised voice. I have a feeling we were 2 of many who would have swore out loud lol. Was very impressive

 

[Bluebear]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Lol! I am not kidding, I was sitting downstairs, at like 12am (thanks to the late night replays in Sydney ), by myself, when he kicked it, and I actually said "holy crap" in this surprised voice. I have a feeling we were 2 of many who would have swore out loud lol. Was very impressive

Pretty sure I said "____ me" under my breath.

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Round 11 stats: 18 possessions, 3 tackles, 8 hitouts

His work around the ground is very good, but still needs to increase his hitout numbers to be considered a better than average ruckman (which he could be if he can get his hands to the ruck contests first more often)

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Round 12 stats: 17 possessions, 16 hitouts!

Had another very solid game today against his old club. His work around the ground is excellent. He gets inbetween 15 and 20 possessions every game.

The best thing about his game today though was that he got 16 hitouts!!! For one of the first times this season, Carlton almost matched their opponents in the hitout department (collingwood beat us by 6). Kreuzer had 10 hitouts which helped our cause too.

Josh Fraser had 11 possessions and 10 hitouts, Bryan 6 possessions and 20 hitouts. So I think it's fair to say that Cloke easily won the ruck contest today.

Cloke did another one of his impressive 40 meter inside 50 kicks, hitting a player on the lead, today. I honestly think he would be one of the best kicks for a ruckman in the game

Watching the game I was very impressed with Cam. He's been a great pickup for us

 

[Bluebear]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

I don't mean to nit pick, as I think you do a good job......but I was wondering if you could also put the hitout to advantage if you can find it, usually given as a percentage.
Gives a more accurate picture of the effectiveness of the ruck.

I suspect not many of Bryan's h/o were to advantage.

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

I don't mean to nit pick, as I think you do a good job......but I was wondering if you could also put the hitout to advantage if you can find it, usually given as a percentage.
Gives a more accurate picture of the effectiveness of the ruck.

I suspect not many of Bryan's h/o were to advantage.

That's a good point actually. I have to admit, i'm relatively lazy at this, just getting the stats from GameDay Live and providing short reviews when we get footage of the game up here, but hitouts to advantage is definately an important stat for a ruckman. From now on I'll try and find it for yas

 

[Bluebear]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

That's a good point actually. I have to admit, i'm relatively lazy at this, just getting the stats from GameDay Live and providing short reviews when we get footage of the game up here, but hitouts to advantage is definately an important stat for a ruckman. From now on I'll try and find it for yas

Cheers WillB.
I know The Age has it for the top 2 rucks in each side, as well as the team overall. Printed along the bottom of the stats.

From memory this week:
Fraser - 9 h/o, none to advantage
Bryan - 20 h/o, 25% adv

Cloke - 16 h/o 30% adv
Kreuzer - 10 h/o 40% adv

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Cheers WillB.
I know The Age has it for the top 2 rucks in each side, as well as the team overall. Printed along the bottom of the stats.

From memory this week:
Fraser - 9 h/o, none to advantage
Bryan - 20 h/o, 25% adv

Cloke - 16 h/o 30% adv
Kreuzer - 10 h/o 40% adv

Thanks. Do you reckon they would also be on the Age website match reports?

Also, what's a good hitout to advantage ratio? 30% sounds decent isn't it?

 

[Bluebear]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Thanks. Do you reckon they would also be on the Age website match reports?

Also, what's a good hitout to advantage ratio? 30% sounds decent isn't it?

I'm not sure it is on the website. You'd need to check.

It seems that around 25% is pretty good, some guys getting up to 30 odd percent.

Makes you wonder about the use of a good ruckman when a third of what he palms hits a target.

 

[Bluebear]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Blues - 27 (26% adv)
Cloke - 14 (21%)
Kreuzer - 13 (31%)

Dons - 51 (27%)
Hille - 37 (30%) - benchmark as a very good performance.
Layjoke - 13 (23%)

 

[The Coach]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Hille's 22! possessions with 8 clearances of his own made for a humdinger of a performance.

I know Hille is 2" taller and 6k heavier than Clokey but they are both big boys and after a couple of good weeks I was disappointed that Clokey couldn't at least nullify him a bit more

A couple of Clokey's bullet-like long raking passes have been amazing lately

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Round 13: 10 possessions, 14 hitouts (sorry BB, I can't find Hitouts to Advantage on the Internet)

Cloke got completely towelled up by Hille who had 22 possessions, 37 hitouts, and 8 clearances. Hille was a major reason Essendon won and it was a shame Cloke couldn't really offer any stiff resistance

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Round 14: 7 possessions, 13 hitouts, 4 tackles, 1 goal (which occurred almost instantly when he was moved forward briefly to allow Fev a rest on the pine)

Had on average game. Once again our rucks got slaughtered in the hitouts (Simmonds had 26). I'd like to see Cloke have more short stints up forward as he seems to take a couple of deep pack marks. Would like to see him just sit in the goal square, and Fev can do his routine leads inside the 50, hopefully leaving Cloke one-on-one in the goal square. Either way we'll have 2 very strong forward options when the ball enters the 50

 

[Bomber Man]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Please excuse a Bomber dropping in - not trolling...

What do you think the future holds for Cloke now that Carlton brought in Warnock and will keep developing Kruezer?

Is there another role he can fill?
If so, will it be KPF or KPB?
Or is his run just about over given he doesn't really have the height and leap to contest as a true ruck?

 

[Jeremias]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Please excuse a Bomber dropping in - not trolling...

What do you think the future holds for Cloke now that Carlton brought in Warnock and will keep developing Kruezer?

Is there another role he can fill?
If so, will it be KPF or KPB?
Or is his run just about over given he doesn't really have the height and leap to contest as a true ruck?

We'll be hoping that he can fill the void at CHF.

We played him in that position at the end of last year and he really seemed to excel in it, becoming a real marking target and showing that he is capable of taking a big grab and kicking goals.

He's the perfect size to fill such a role and will be given every opportunity to make CHF his own.

 

[Juddys_navy_blues]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

We'll be hoping that he can fill the void at CHF.

We played him in that position at the end of last year and he really seemed to excel in it, becoming a real marking target and showing that he is capable of taking a big grab and kicking goals.

He's the perfect size to fill such a role and will be given every opportunity to make CHF his own.

Exactly, lets hope he can step up and play like his old man, would bring a smile to all Carlton fans faces.

 

[Bomber Man]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Good to hear, he certainly is the right size. I like the way he plays - possibly gets more from his effort than pure ability.

I don't think he has the size nor stamina to hold down a true ruck role, but I think he could be a hard man to mark in more of a burst role up forward.

 

[Bluebear]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Good to hear, he certainly is the right size. I like the way he plays - possibly gets more from his effort than pure ability.

I don't think he has the size nor stamina to hold down a true ruck role, but I think he could be a hard man to mark in more of a burst role up forward.

What have you seen to suggest this is even close to being true?

Is there a huge difference in stamina required to play ruck vs a mobile CHF?

His stamina is fine. Yes, he was an undersized ruck........and he will be a handfull as a CHF.

 

[THE AISSASSIN]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

What have you seen to suggest this is even close to being true?

Is there a huge difference in stamina required to play ruck vs a mobile CHF?

His stamina is fine. Yes, he was an undersized ruck........and he will be a handfull as a CHF.

A handful for who ?

The good CHBs that play on J Brown or Lance Franklin or Matthew Pavlich or Robert Murphy or Richo or Reiwoldt or Travis Cloke........or even Barry hall?

I doubt Cam is going to be bigger threat of being a "handful" than any of the above.

If he can just contribute, not get run off and pantsed, and hold his spot in the team that would be a decent result.

 

[Bluebear]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

A handful for who ?

With any nouse, for the ones who like to zone off on Fev. Cam at the very least should keep them accountable.

Re-watch the Lions game from round 22 last year for a taste of how effective he can be.

.......BTW.....who are these nameless "gun CHB's" that play on the CHF's you mentioned above?

 

[THE AISSASSIN]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

With any nouse, for the ones who like to zone off on Fev. Cam at the very least should keep them accountable.

Re-watch the Lions game from round 22 last year for a taste of how effective he can be.

.......BTW.....who are these nameless "gun CHB's" that play on the CHF's you mentioned above?

Keeping someone accountable is not in the same ballpark as being a "handfull"

Watch the Lions game ?.....thats 1 game.....I pick the Hawks game.....see how easily he was zoned off and run off, by a 188cm back flanker in essence.

In the Lions game he took some good contested which is great, but to succeed at CHF you need to be able to lead hard and win uncontested ball. Cam is yet to show he can do this. He also hasnt shown much at ground level either.

I didnt use the word "gun" when refering to the good CHBs that play on the players I mentioned, so please dont twist my words.

But players are selected as much on match ups as pure positionally and I would suspect the likes of Glass, Bock,Rutten, Croad, Sam Fisher, Brian Lake, Matthew Scarlett, Tom Harley, Firrito,Paddy Ryder et al would all have spent time on at least 1 of the fwds I mentioned

 

[Bluebear]

Re: 28. Cameron Cloke

Keeping someone accountable is not in the same ballpark as being a "handfull"

Sorry, didn't realise your grasp of English was so poor. Handfull doesn't mean completely dominating and blown out of the water. It means that the player will have to respect him or he will hurt them......hence my comment about the zoning off CHB's.

Watch the Lions game ?.....thats 1 game.....I pick the Hawks game.....see how easily he was zoned off and run off, by a 188cm back flanker in essence.

Cool. Lets pick the Hawks game. This game Cam lead up to the 50 and beyond multiple times, even up towards the HFF......only to have to ball go over his head to the "zoning off" Hodge. Delivery was worse than pathetic. When he was "one out" in the square the ball was never delievered to his advantage...........

If you want to point the finger at someone for that night start with Ratten for not tagging Hodge with Grigg or the like. A mistake repeated in the GF.

In the Lions game he took some good contested which is great, but to succeed at CHF you need to be able to lead hard and win uncontested ball. Cam is yet to show he can do this. He also hasnt shown much at ground level either.

Sarcasm? Is that because what you just typed is complete bullshit?
Yet to show he can lead up? You must have missed.......oh nearly every game this year where our number one target coming out of defence was the LEADING Cam Cloke, running up from the CHF often marking on the wing or HBF..............you do know which one he is right?

I didnt use the word "gun" when refering to the good CHBs that play on the players I mentioned, so please dont twist my words.

Way to miss the point.
Good.....gun..........who gives a s**t?
Seriously mate.....what are you on?

But players are selected as much on match ups as pure positionally and I would suspect the likes of Glass, Bock,Rutten, Croad, Sam Fisher, Brian Lake, Matthew Scarlett, Tom Harley, Firrito,Paddy Ryder et al would all have spent time on at least 1 of the fwds I mentioned

Glass, Rutten, Scarlet, Lake, Firrito - all FB's and none of whom would end up on Cloke so to go back to your original point it's hardley worth mentioning their names.

Croad usually takes the best forward which would be Fev.

That leaves you down to Ryder and Fisher. Both of whom would have the better of Cloke in terms of run, but both of whom would need to be careful (as BB sighs due to repeating himself) as they often zone off to be second or third man in, that they don't leave Cloke unattended to run at packs. He can and will take pack marks and mark on the lead, and he can and will kick goals. This is fact. Watch the tapes.

Am I saying Cloke will be the best CHF in the league? No. He will be a handfull for his opponent. That is all.