Cameron Green

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Pippen94

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He seems to have the ceiling with 145k bowling at good size - already getting key wickets at big times in tests

and +50 average in the SS

Ppl need to appreciate what constitutes a good record for an all rounder. No player has averaged over 40 with the bat & under 30 with the ball over a long career.
If Green finishes with a record like Stokes he'll be Australia's best all rounder after Miller.
 

Marcel Proust

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I think his a good player but against a good batting line up in India he bowled 264 balls and he didn't look like getting a wicket, against England his done well but Englands a mess so it'll be interesting how he goes in his next few series.

Disagree think he looked alright and didn't have much luck. Beat the bat a bit too iirc.

This year; Getting root twice when he's got 1600 runs for the year is handy
 
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anchor man

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He couldn't get a wicket against India although bowling 44 overs so I wouldn't celebrate too early.
He was recoving from a back complaint. Hadn't bowled for a long time. Was under medical supervision.
Same as Adelaide test.Smith was told not to bowl him unless under dire situations.
You are being too hard on the kid without understanding the situation.
 

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DaRick

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Amongst Englands mess he’s managed to get Root and Stokes out a couple of times each. Helps when the captain throws you the ball before it’s 60 overs old and you get more than 2 overs at a time

He was a bit unlucky against India, but Paine's overall approach to handling him was at times bizarre.

Not so much in terms of overs bowled, but from memory he was asked to bang it in short and/or down the legside too often, which doesn't suit his strengths, nor it is a sustainable way to use a pace bowler. Also, I thought that he was used to fill in some overs rather than as part of a concerted plan to dismiss a particular batsman.

Cummins, meanwhile, has had him bowl fuller and used him as a more orthodox swing bowler against particular batsmen (Root).
 

bh90210fan

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He was a bit unlucky against India, but Paine's overall approach to handling him was at times bizarre.

Not so much in terms of overs bowled, but from memory he was asked to bang it in short and/or down the legside too often, which doesn't suit his strengths, nor it is a sustainable way to use a pace bowler. Also, I thought that he was used to fill in some overs rather than as part of a concerted plan to dismiss a particular batsman.

Cummins, meanwhile, has had him bowl fuller and used him as a more orthodox swing bowler against particular batsmen (Root).
Best thing to happen to us is having Cummins as captain. His bowling changes have been spot on. Not afraid to bowl himself for extended periods, willing to pull people off after a couple of overs if he has to, give Green a good run if he’s bowling well, even threw the ball to Lyon halfway through the first session day 1 on a green top in the first test. Very good instincts, can’t wait to see how we go in the subcontinent
 

anchor man

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Gents, I think that Green became a martyr for the over worked Aussie quicks against India.
Besides that he was still going through recovery from his back problems. He did what he had to do because the other quicks couldn't raise the energy to bounce the Indians.
He, and the captain, are still being told how much he is allowed to bowl. See the comments about Green from Smith, the skipper during the Adelaide test. Smith was told not to bowl him unless it was totally necessary.
One of the reasons the Indians were able to beat Australia convincingly was that they played every game with a new and different, fresh attack. All that were replacements were class bowlers who unless of injury, would never have been given a chance.
Also they batted for long periods, sometimes at snails pace just to keep the Aussie quicks in the field and becoming legless. No energy, no stamina.
Injuries were a blessing for the Indians.
 

Doodlesweaver

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Ppl need to appreciate what constitutes a good record for an all rounder. No player has averaged over 40 with the bat & under 30 with the ball over a long career.
If Green finishes with a record like Stokes he'll be Australia's best all rounder after Miller.
Sobers was pretty close, wasn't he?
 

Around the Wicket

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Ppl need to appreciate what constitutes a good record for an all rounder. No player has averaged over 40 with the bat & under 30 with the ball over a long career.
If Green finishes with a record like Stokes he'll be Australia's best all rounder after Miller.

Stats are stats, I honestly have higher hopes for Green then a record like Stokes, Stokes averages 36 with the bat and 38 with the ball which neither are great, I think Green will better both averages.
 

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Pippen94

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Stats are stats, I honestly have higher hopes for Green then a record like Stokes, Stokes averages 36 with the bat and 38 with the ball which neither are great, I think Green will better both averages.

Stokes averages 31 with ball. As a batsman or bowler that record isn't great, but as pointed out Stoke's record is excellent for an all rounder.

If Green finishes with a better batting & bowling average than Stokes, then puts him alongside only Imran & Miller.

Ppl here predicting the next Imran, miller, sobers, kallis. Very high expectations
 
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Pippen94

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Monocle

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Disagree think he looked alright and didn't have much luck. Beat the bat a bit too iirc.

This year; Getting root twice when he's got 1600 runs for the year is handy

And that a very good point MP as it's not always HOW many wickets did bowler X get, its pretty important to note "who he got out" and "at what point in the game' did that wicket fall.
 

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cricketnut14

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Ppl need to appreciate what constitutes a good record for an all rounder. No player has averaged over 40 with the bat & under 30 with the ball over a long career.

that's being able to bat in the top 5 and open the bowling sorta stuff and can genuinely be picked in the XI for either skillset alone !!

a player averaging 35+/35- or 30+/30- are more realistic allrounders in the test arena batting at 6,7,8 labelled either as a batting allrounder or bowling allrounder and could really only be selected on the one skillset, with the other skillset being 'handy'. if green fits into here , then great.

the 30+/35- are what i call the no man's land players like vettori 30/34 (strange considering he is a NZ great) - too good a bat @8 and not good enough @6 and not quite good enough as a 4th bowler. a balance of an adequate keeper batsman could see him slot in @7 as the 7th batsman and a 5th bowler.
same could be said as flintoff 31/32.
mitch marsh 25/38 - i won't go their , although his first class stats 32/30.

many players labelled as allrounders in the white ball format though.
 

Pippen94

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that's being able to bat in the top 5 and open the bowling sorta stuff and can genuinely be picked in the XI for either skillset alone !!

a player averaging 35+/35- or 30+/30- are more realistic allrounders in the test arena batting at 6,7,8 labelled either as a batting allrounder or bowling allrounder and could really only be selected on the one skillset, with the other skillset being 'handy'. if green fits into here , then great.

the 30+/35- are what i call the no man's land players like vettori 30/34 (strange considering he is a NZ great) - too good a bat @8 and not good enough @6 and not quite good enough as a 4th bowler. a balance of an adequate keeper batsman could see him slot in @7 as the 7th batsman and a 5th bowler.
same could be said as flintoff 31/32.
mitch marsh 25/38 - i won't go their , although his first class stats 32/30.

many players labelled as allrounders in the white ball format though.

Great, Vettori & Flintoff were no good. Got it
 

Around the Wicket

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Didn't stop Ponting from being dropped or Hayden or Langer..

They were in a era where there were at least 8 guns in shield cricket waiting to go, we struggle to field 5 legit batsmen these days hence we are playing Harris.

Late 90's/early 2000's Australia could have fielded a 2nd XI and they would have a) gave the 1st team a run for there money b) Been the 2nd best team in the world.
 

Pippen94

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They were in a era where there were at least 8 guns in shield cricket waiting to go, we struggle to field 5 legit batsmen these days hence we are playing Harris.

Late 90's/early 2000's Australia could have fielded a 2nd XI and they would have a) gave the 1st team a run for there money b) Been the 2nd best team in the world.

Renshaw, Handscomb, Head..
 

Kwality

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Ppl need to appreciate what constitutes a good record for an all rounder. No player has averaged over 40 with the bat & under 30 with the ball over a long career.
If Green finishes with a record like Stokes he'll be Australia's best all rounder after Miller.

Statistically.
 

Gethelred

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Who would you play ahead of him in the position (for Sri Lanka anyway)? Tim Ward has had a great start to the season but needs another shield season of performances before he's a reasonable claim to be banging down the door. Phillipe looks like starting to put together but he's in the same bucket as Ward given his FC average is 33. I'm dead against playing Ussie at his age, it just throwing development down the drain.

There's really no other options for players that look like they would be close to test level at number 6
No.6 is a position for any middle order bat, any player who they think might need be eased into playing tests could slot in there. Maddinson, Kurtis Pattinson (despite his form), Ward, Hunt; all would be a reasonable player to give an opportunity to.

Pattinson or Maddinson is the one I'd go for; both already have a cap, and both need to stay in touch of the Australian setup.

The only reason why you would think there are no other options for no.6 is because you're looking for an all rounder. All rounders are a luxury, not an essential; Labuschagne can bowl, and so can Smith.
 

Gethelred

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Renshaw could potentially come in a 6, particularly in the sub continent, as he can contribute some (albeit average) spin. He's looked good since his shift down the order. Age still on his side too.

However I think they absolutely should back Green in as #6 for the foreseeable future. Guy could be anything. But I agree with some posters above that expectations should be tempered. He may not become Kallis or Sobers, but he could be a Stokes, Al Hassan level player, which would be phenomenal for us.
If we're to keep him there, we need a) a wicketkeeper who can average better than 35+, b) a no.8 who also averages 35+, and c) an opening bat that averages 40+.

You can deal with a no.6 that averages 35 if you have batting either side of them or you have bowling higher in the order. Given the stress bowling puts on the body I can respect the need to have an all rounder in the team, but doing so can imbalance a side if there's not either enough runs in the upper-middle order.
 

Gethelred

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I think his a good player but against a good batting line up in India he bowled 264 balls and he didn't look like getting a wicket, against England his done well but Englands a mess so it'll be interesting how he goes in his next few series.
He wasn't bowling like this against India. His bowling looked placid, dull, lifeless; now, he's getting zip off the pitch, it's kicking right up and it looks genuinely threatening.

His bowling is not something I'm super worried about, really. He has the pace and the height to be threatening if he hits the right areas in all countries. My concern is the fact that I do not think a batting average of 35 is enough for a number 6, and our batting is our weakness already.
 

Jinglebells32

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He wasn't bowling like this against India. His bowling looked placid, dull, lifeless; now, he's getting zip off the pitch, it's kicking right up and it looks genuinely threatening.

His bowling is not something I'm super worried about, really. He has the pace and the height to be threatening if he hits the right areas in all countries. My concern is the fact that I do not think a batting average of 35 is enough for a number 6, and our batting is our weakness already.
With a first class average of 53 and 7 tons already, he will average over 40 at test level for sure.
 

Falconista

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38 with the bat, 35 with the ball averaging one/just over wicket per match and nearly a catch per match would be a special player. He looks capable of that- essentially a modern, better Carl Hooper . Anything beyond that is rarefied air [Sobers, Botham, Kallis etc].
 

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