Opinion Cameron Guthrie

[Partridge]

Guthrie was very un impressive again is unaware of his opponent lets players run around , rarely tackles and very few possessions

I'll say it again - who was his opponent and what specific mistakes did he make?

There were worse than him, but some were sacred cows so won't be mentioned.

 

[bulletproof]

How exactly? Did he concede 3 goals to Rhys Palmer like Enright? Or let is direct opponent run away from him twice to goal like Bartel?

Or is there no specific reason?

C'mon, the only people in a football game who are encouraged to be invisible are umpires. He is having an increasingly bizarre career, perpetually one yard from the contest. We have just come off games against two expansion sides and he had 5 possessions to three quarter time in both. He is either facing a confidence crisis or a dramatic loss of form.

The reason I go on about it, is I am worried about having Josh Hunt as a defender in finals and i wanted Guthrie to step up but Hunt's form is just so much better we are going to be left with no choice.

Thurlow is showing huge promise but is probably a year away. Taylor Hunt can probably go back there and we might need to find another solution for defensive midfield.

 

[Partridge]

C'mon, the only people in a football game who are encouraged to be invisible are umpires. He is having an increasingly bizarre career, perpetually one yard from the contest. We have just come off games against two expansion sides and he had 5 possessions to three quarter time in both. He is either facing a confidence crisis or a dramatic loss of form.

The reason I go on about it, is I am worried about having Josh Hunt as a defender in finals and i wanted Guthrie to step up but Hunt's form is just so much better we are going to be left with no choice.

Thurlow is showing huge promise but is probably a year away. Taylor Hunt can probably go back there and we might need to find another solution for defensive midfield.

So what you're saying is, no general reason, but he's not getting 25 plus touches a week so has to go.

 

[bulletproof]

I'll say it again - who was his opponent and what specific mistakes did he make?

There were worse than him, but some were sacred cows so won't be mentioned.

It is hard to know who he was on because he was just standing a metre away from everyone with the ball. That effort with Cameron summed it up, just not the desperation or wherewithal to hold him up. He was pretty clearly the worst player today, only Lonergan was in contention but he has plenty of credits in the bank.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

It is hard to know who he was on because he was just standing a metre away from everyone with the ball. That effort with Cameron summed it up, just not the desperation or wherewithal to hold him up. He was pretty clearly the worst player today, only Lonergan was in contention but he has plenty of credits in the bank.

Just so far from the mark that I'm not even sure where to start.

We talk about the players going into a game like this, obviously without the required respect for their opposition. Well, besides Lonergan (who was simply outplayed by a good player today) he is the only regular defender in the side that you can count on not to try play like a millionaire in a game like this (and that includes players like Mackie, Enright and Taylor). Some of our players seem to need the challenge of playing on one of the stars of the competition to give the task their maximum focus. But, to Guthrie, it doesn't matter if he is playing on Lachie Plowman or Stephen Milne, he is going to treat his opponent with the utmost respect and make his primary focus to simply stop him from getting the ball and kicking goals. If he gets the ball himself, fine. He's composed, he makes good decisions and he is a good kick. He leaves the flashy stuff to others and it's not through any lack of skill on his part.

You say that only umpires should aim to go unnoticed in a game. How much external attention do you think players like Nick Smith, Ben Stratton, Dale Morris, Steven Morris, Steve Baker (when he wasn't belting someone) and so on get, when they're putting the clamps on one of the opposition's best forwards? But we're all over it when the Hibberds and Ibbotsons of the world have their 'breakout' seasons. Someone like Joel Patfull wins his club's best and fairest and the outside world is left thoroughly confused ('it's got to be Rockliff or Rich, doesn't it?').

Corey Enright is a once-in-a-genration BP/HB for Geelong. To have him in the same defence as Scarlett, Milburn, Taylor, Hunt and Mackie (all decent to elite stoppers and all elite attacking defenders) was obscene. But when you've got a defence that isn't full of some of the greatest players ever to pull on our guernsey, old-fashioned stoppers like Guthrie are critical. And that is the worst case scenario of his career trajectory from here: to be a solid, reliable defender for 150+ games.

 

[catempire]

Just so far from the mark that I'm not even sure where to start.

We talk about the players going into a game like this, obviously without the required respect for their opposition. Well, besides Lonergan (who was simply outplayed by a good player today) he is the only regular defender in the side that you can count on not to try play like a millionaire in a game like this (and that includes players like Mackie, Enright and Taylor). Some of our players seem to need the challenge of playing on one of the stars of the competition to give the task their maximum focus. But, to Guthrie, it doesn't matter if he is playing on Lachie Plowman or Stephen Milne, he is going to treat his opponent with the utmost respect and make his primary focus to simply stop him from getting the ball and kicking goals. If he gets the ball himself, fine. He's composed, he makes good decisions and he is a good kick. He leaves the flashy stuff to others and it's not through any lack of skill on his part.

You say that only umpires should aim to go unnoticed in a game. How much external attention do you think players like Nick Smith, Ben Stratton, Dale Morris, Steven Morris, Steve Baker (when he wasn't belting someone) and so on get, when they're putting the clamps on one of the opposition's best forwards? Someone like Joel Patfull wins his club's best and fairest and the outside world is left thoroughly confused ('it's got to be Rockliff or Rich, doesn't it?').

Corey Enright is a once-in-a-genration BP/HB for Geelong. To have him in the same defence as Scarlett, Milburn, Taylor, Hunt and Mackie (all decent to elite stoppers and all elite attacking defenders) was obscene. But when you've got a defence that isn't full of some of the greatest players ever to pull on our guernsey, old-fashioned stoppers like Guthrie are critical. And that is the worst case scenario of his career trajectory from here: to be a solid, reliable defender for 150+ games.

Quoted for excellence.

Guthrie again did exactly what I suspect was asked of him.

 

[hbk_aus]

Doesn't get nearly enough Supercoach or Dream Team points. Drop him.

 

[David the Cat]

Doesn't get nearly enough Supercoach or Dream Team points. Drop him.

LOL.....deserved a "like"....thats how some people rate players....sad really.

Guthrie will play 150-200 games for us....good player and getting better.

 

[year of the cat]

Just so far from the mark that I'm not even sure where to start.

We talk about the players going into a game like this, obviously without the required respect for their opposition. Well, besides Lonergan (who was simply outplayed by a good player today) he is the only regular defender in the side that you can count on not to try play like a millionaire in a game like this (and that includes players like Mackie, Enright and Taylor). Some of our players seem to need the challenge of playing on one of the stars of the competition to give the task their maximum focus. But, to Guthrie, it doesn't matter if he is playing on Lachie Plowman or Stephen Milne, he is going to treat his opponent with the utmost respect and make his primary focus to simply stop him from getting the ball and kicking goals. If he gets the ball himself, fine. He's composed, he makes good decisions and he is a good kick. He leaves the flashy stuff to others and it's not through any lack of skill on his part.

Won't highlight the whole thing but only not to clog up space. Great post.

 

[Selective Retention]

It's the same argument as Taylor Hunt 18 months ago. The guy at the bottom of the food chain gets kicked for the odd mistake, but is mostly doing his job.

Ideally he would demand a spot ahead of Josh Hunt. The last two games points to that likely not going to be the case in 2013. Meh. Can't really believe there is 17 pages discussion on it.

 

[vinum coupe]

Corey Enright is a once-in-a-genration BP/HB for Geelong. To have him in the same defence as Scarlett, Milburn, Taylor, Hunt and Mackie (all decent to elite stoppers and all elite attacking defenders) was obscene. But when you've got a defence that isn't full of some of the greatest players ever to pull on our guernsey, old-fashioned stoppers like Guthrie are critical. And that is the worst case scenario of his career trajectory from here: to be a solid, reliable midfielder for 200+ games.

EFA

Partridge and MC Extra Dollop
Let them be.
They dont affect selection. But boy o boy there's going to be a shit load of egg on the face for them.

 

[bulletproof]

EFA

Partridge and MC Extra Dollop
Let them be.
They dont affect selection. But boy o boy there's going to be a shit load of egg on the face for them.

You were a fair way off with the 28 possies and 3 goal game call.....only people with egg on their face today are those that questioned Murdoch's return to the side.

 

[denicat]

27 games still showing nothing and plp say hes going to be a star

 

[Willo_]

I simply cannot understand some people here... have we become sospoilt and arrogant from success that we just rule a line through a kid based on him not being a Selwood/Judd the moment he walks in...
Or it seriously is dream team and super coach points skewing people's view..

You only have to watch him in tight to see he had some ability... has composure, smarts, clean hands and generally makes the right decisions....

but shit he is not getting 100 super coach points or super flashy he must be no good!!!

 

[Willo_]

27 games still showing nothing and plp say hes going to be a star

If you think he has shown nothing I would hate to see how you handle it when we drop off

 

[Cursed Cat]

This thread should never have been started in the first place, the fact that there has been 17 pages of debate on the matter is a shame, because to my eyes Guthrie has not put a foot wrong in his time at Geelong.

That's not to say he hasn't been beaten in contests.
But there is just so much to like that I honestly can't see why he attracts any criticism from our supporters.

Guthrie sits on a grand total of 27 games.

Personally I don't expect to see a player like him to hit his consistent best until he's played around 70-80 games.

I see him as a future leader of the team.

 

[David the Cat]

27 games still showing nothing and plp say hes going to be a star

You need to watch more footy if you seriously believe that.

 

[THE CAT WRANGLER]

I'll say it again - who was his opponent and what specific mistakes did he make?

There were worse than him, but some were sacred cows so won't be mentioned.

I'll say it again has done nothing Thurlow has gone way past him I can't believe we burnt a 1st rounder on Guthrie

 

[Partridge]

I'll say it again has done nothing Thurlow has gone way past him I can't believe we burnt a 1st rounder on Guthrie

That's a post that contributes nothing. As Chris Scott if he thinks Guthrie is a waste of a pick. He was drafted after Smedts too, and right now I know who I'd prefer.

What no mistakes mentioned? No goals conceded? Is that because you highlighted his deficiencies during the game and can list them (it seems you can't), or can't be bothered actually watching impartially?

 

[Partridge]

This thread should never have been started in the first place, the fact that there has been 17 pages of debate on the matter is a shame, because to my eyes Guthrie has not put a foot wrong in his time at Geelong.

That's not to say he hasn't been beaten in contests.
But there is just so much to like that I honestly can't see why he attracts any criticism from our supporters.

Guthrie sits on a grand total of 27 games.

Personally I don't expect to see a player like him to hit his consistent best until he's played around 70-80 games.

I see him as a future leader of the team.

Symptom of modern footy. If you're not super fast or not indigenous, or a top 10 pick, then there's no hype. And when there's no hype some fans can't arrive at their own conclusions, because they have the intelligence of cold porridge.

 

[Partridge]

I simply cannot understand some people here... have we become sospoilt and arrogant from success that we just rule a line through a kid based on him not being a Selwood/Judd the moment he walks in...
Or it seriously is dream team and super coach points skewing people's view..

You only have to watch him in tight to see he had some ability... has composure, smarts, clean hands and generally makes the right decisions....

but shit he is not getting 100 super coach points or super flashy he must be no good!!!

I seriously despise Supercoach and Dreamteam for exactly that reason.

 

[DanA]

It's the twighlight zone in here. This thread was clearly created out of frustrating because so many people would say "Guthrie was amazing", "he's going to be a superstar" and he hadn't done anything that game to warrant the opinion. It's not Guthrie people are hating on, it's hating on the posters in here that are making statements way out of proportion to what's happening. Judging by the time line this thread was started after the North game. Guthrie got torn a new one by Lindsay Thomas and people were signing his praise. In fact whenever you pulled up someone on this, you're branded a lesser knowledgeable footy fan, who only pays attention to the flashy stuff.

The post by Extra Dollop is a classic example. Write a massive rant about how the Joe Patful's of this world are unappreciated because they play a shutdown role...but it's a bullshit argument. The vast majority of people don't have an opinion on Joe Patful not because of the role he plays, it's because he plays for a losing interstate team...Nobody watches them play. Everyone rated Dale Morris, then Doggies got crap, he broke his leg and people stopped paying attention. Everyone rated Baker in his prime then St Kilda started declining, Baker got injury/suspension issues and became irrelevant. For some reason that posts is bastion of enlightened opinion, too me it's a rubbish straw man argument.

The whole debate of Guthrie being ahead of Josh Hunt for instance. No basis for that argument what so ever at the start of the year and there's no basis for it now. Take this from the AFL Prospectus:

"Hunt played 18 games in 2012, usually opposed to a dangerous small forward. He allowed his direct opponent to kick more than two goals on just two occasions. He ranked fourth at Geelong for intercept marks and 5th for intercept possessions."

"One-on-One he (Josh Hunt) was outstanding being the only defender not to lose a contest of the 83 defenders involved in at least 15 one-on-one contests "

But so many people prior to the season were saying Guthrie has overtaken him, he's the "better shutdown defender". Gets five kicked on him against Richmond, and people still sing his praising saying he played well.

Don't get me wrong I think he's solid, a decent prospect, developing in to a solid footballer But this opinion is somehow seen as deluded hate on a "future leader" and "superstar" of the club. WTF?

 

[denicat]

Spot on DanA dont hate him also just dont see star hes way off

 

[bulletproof]

Agree DanA, I don't think he is hopeless, just a young player out of form that is probably just outside a very good best 22-25 at the moment. He might be better suited as a tagger in the middle, so get him back to the VFL and play him on ball for a month and let him find his confidence. It worked wonders for Murdoch.

 

[Baby Duck]

He has all the attributes required to be a good player. Nice kick, good overhead mark for his size, excellent decision making and very calm under pressure. I can understand people not being all that excited about him, but surely that is only because he isn't the flashiest of players. To my mind he does what is required of him, and does it reasonably well given his experience. He WILL be a future best 22 player, I guarantee it. All he needs is to have games pumped into him while we still have the older blokes around to show him the ropes.

The only thing I could knock him on is probably attacking flair, but again I don't think that is his role at the moment. And besides, that sort of play will come with more experience. We expect a little bit too much of our young players, they can't ALL be stars from game 1 ala Selwood/Christensen etc.