Opinion Cameron Guthrie

[BroughtonMid]

sorry for intruding but I would not be worried about this lads rate of development at all. He is going to be an absolute ripper of a player for you guys. Reckon he will end up one of those versatile hbf/mid types who you guys seem to do so well with corey, kelly and co.

 

[darren forssman]

Judging by the time line this thread was started after the North game. Guthrie got torn a new one by Lindsay Thomas and people were signing his praise. In fact whenever you pulled up someone on this, you're branded a lesser knowledgeable footy fan, who only pays attention to the flashy stuff.

guthrie didnt play in that game, it was enright that got torn a new one in that game.

 

[catempire]

guthrie didnt play in that game, it was enright that got torn a new one in that game.

Wasn't the only thing DanA got wrong in that post.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

sorry for intruding but I would not be worried about this lads rate of development at all. He is going to be an absolute ripper of a player for you guys. Reckon he will end up one of those versatile hbf/mid types who you guys seem to do so well with corey, kelly and co.

the majority of us think this, just a minority disagree, i assume they are most likely 14-16 year olds or just limited with football inteligence

you always have to expect a mixed bag of lollies on free internet forums

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

guthrie didnt play in that game, it was enright that got torn a new one in that game.

It was actually started for the NAB Cup game, where Thomas also kicked a few goals (mainly from advantage play ons and dubious high tackle free kicks) with Guthrie as his direct opponent.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

C'mon, the only people in a football game who are encouraged to be invisible are umpires. He is having an increasingly bizarre career, perpetually one yard from the contest. We have just come off games against two expansion sides and he had 5 possessions to three quarter time in both. He is either facing a confidence crisis or a dramatic loss of form.

The reason I go on about it, is I am worried about having Josh Hunt as a defender in finals and i wanted Guthrie to step up but Hunt's form is just so much better we are going to be left with no choice.

Thurlow is showing huge promise but is probably a year away. Taylor Hunt can probably go back there and we might need to find another solution for defensive midfield.

he is facing neither, he is 20 years old and barely played AFL footy

please name for me these superstar 15+ posession a game 20 year old HB flankers???

if you remember how guys like enright, scarlett, lonergan, harley, milburn started out, then you would realise how he has gone for a 20 year old is very normal

and worrying about having josh hunt playing in finals is rediculous, he has played into terrific form and was one of our best players on the weekend, his penetrating and long kicks are crucial, if you find it "worrying" having him in our best 22 then you have no idea

 

[hbk_aus]

I despair sometimes...

 

[DanA]

Wasn't the only thing DanA got wrong in that post.

This thread was started March 10th one day after Nab Cup week 3 against North Melbourne.

I wonder if you are a big enough person to admit when you get it wrong? I happily will if you can point out the bit I got wrong.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

This thread was started March 10th one day after Nab Cup week 3 against North Melbourne.

I wonder if you are a big enough person to admit when you get it wrong? I happily will if you can point out the bit I got wrong.

what has this kid actually done wrong? to me he looks as good a 20 year old HB flanker as one could hope for

are you one of the people saying he hasnt done well or are saying he has done well? i cant be bothered reading through the piles of posts to pick out the minority who dont think he is doing well

 

[DanA]

what has this kid actually done wrong? to me he looks as good a 20 year old HB flanker as one could hope for

are you one of the people saying he hasnt done well or are saying he has done well? i cant be bothered reading through the piles of posts to pick out the minority who dont think he is doing well

I think he's done okay. I just don't think he's worthy of the ridiculous praise he gets and I don't have him as best 22. My big issue with him is he plays too safe, doesn't get enough of it and isn't as strong defensively as so many people here suggest.

I think he's in the same sort of category of GHS, Caddy and Murdoch, just a bit luckier because we don't have too many fit defenders as alternatives. But the way he is talked up compared to the other three quite frankly IMO is ridiculous. He's a good solid prospect, we need to get games into and i'm glad we are. I'm hopeful He might turn into a good player.

I don't think it's me unduly questioning our young players. It's nothing to do with Guthrie actually. It's me seriously questioning the hype and praise lavished on this particular player by posters who build up his performances far beyond what's actually happen on the field (from what I can see). And I get called a 16y/o for what I think is a more measure opinion.

 

[darren forssman]

This thread was started March 10th one day after Nab Cup week 3 against North Melbourne.

I wonder if you are a big enough person to admit when you get it wrong? I happily will if you can point out the bit I got wrong.

admittedly, i didnt read through 18 pages and admit i was wrong re what game this thread started.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I think he's done okay. I just don't think he's worthy of the ridiculous praise he gets and I don't have him as best 22. My big issue with him is he plays too safe, doesn't get enough of it and isn't as strong defensively as so many people here suggest.

I think he's in the same sort of category of GHS, Caddy and Murdoch, just a bit luckier because we don't have too many fit defenders as alternatives. But the way he is talked up compared to the other three quite frankly IMO is ridiculous. He's a good solid prospect, we need to gets games into and i'm glad we are. He might turn into a good player.

It's not me question our young players. It's nothing to do with Guthrie actually. It's me seriously questioning the hype and praise lavished on this particular player by posters who build up his performances far beyond what actually happen on the field from what I can see. And I get called a 16y/o for what I think is a more measure opinion.

thats fair enough, just how you word things will be interpreted different ways by some

im not blown away or overly impressed by his performances, but im not expecting him to go out at this point of his career and deliver top line performances, he is still very young and raw

i dont really judge how young inexperienced players go by the number of possessions they get or how many times they influence the game, i judge them on things like their disposal ability, their marking, the natural swagger and movement they have such as evasive ability lateral movement and ability in congestion etc etc you get my drift

for me im not overly fussed if he only gets 5-10 touches, its more what i believe he is capable of becoming with coaching and years in the gym and on the pre season tracks, that when he hits 23-25 i believe he will be able to play at x or y level

im less fussed about how he performs today, more looking for quality signs moving ahead 2-3 years from now

but in saying that i obviously dont want a player in the side that is a burden and cant do a job, they need to be at a contributory level. come september he probably wont be in our best 22 when we get our fitest side on the park unless he produces a little more than he has

thats how i judge a young player personally, you may judge a 20 year old entirely different, but thats just how i look at it personally when they are young

i think guthrie has the potential to become an AA quality backman, i see a lot of ability in the kid

i do agree that he lacks some defensive applying and body work against forwards, but that has come against some quality more experienced forwards like lindsay thomas, he will learn and better from it

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

It's the twighlight zone in here. This thread was clearly created out of frustrating because so many people would say "Guthrie was amazing", "he's going to be a superstar" and he hadn't done anything that game to warrant the opinion. It's not Guthrie people are hating on, it's hating on the posters in here that are making statements way out of proportion to what's happening. Judging by the time line this thread was started after the North game. Guthrie got torn a new one by Lindsay Thomas and people were signing his praise. In fact whenever you pulled up someone on this, you're branded a lesser knowledgeable footy fan, who only pays attention to the flashy stuff.

The post by Extra Dollop is a classic example. Write a massive rant about how the Joe Patful's of this world are unappreciated because they play a shutdown role...but it's a bullshit argument. The vast majority of people don't have an opinion on Joe Patful not because of the role he plays, it's because he plays for a losing interstate team...Nobody watches them play. Everyone rated Dale Morris, then Doggies got crap, he broke his leg and people stopped paying attention. Everyone rated Baker in his prime then St Kilda started declining, Baker got injury/suspension issues and became irrelevant. For some reason that posts is bastion of enlightened opinion, too me it's a rubbish straw man argument.

Except I never said he was amazing, or that he's going to be a superstar. In fact, my 'massive rant' ended with how unfair it is to compare any small Geelong defender to Enright. All I did was defend his performance when people decided to resurrect this thread to say how much he battled, how woefully out of form he is and so on. He did his job, as he has done all season. So how is my post 'a classic example' of people saying that he was amazing, or that he's going to be a superstar?

'Guthrie got torn a new one by Lindsay Thomas...' look at the summary of his game on page 1 and get back to us. One Thomas goal from a very soft high contact free kick. From memory he got another one when Kelly infringed against his opponent and Thomas took the advantage for a cheap open goal. He finished with three. And that's the leader for the Coleman Medal right now, incidentally.

My point about the under-appreciated lock down defenders is that when you look back on Geelong's 2007-11 period, how many premiership players have we had that fit that description? Maybe Lonergan and that's about it? A whole generation of Geelong supporters have grown up with Milburn, Enright, Hunt, Mackie, Scarlett, Taylor, Wojcinski and Sanderson so it's no wonder that they expect our defenders to get 15-20 disposals and constantly be running the ball out of defence. Thurlow looks like he's in that mold too. That's great, but I see the Thurlow types and Guthrie types (in the role that they play now) as being complementary in our defence. People may not have an opinion about Patfull, but I bet everyone has an opinion about Pearce Hanley, right? What does that tell you?

This thread got rehashed by people saying how rubbish he was yesterday. And people (like me) have responded as best we can, since most of us are completely baffled at how people arrived at that conclusion. How do you think he went yesterday?

A problem I see with this board is that some people form a negative attitude towards a player and will then defend it to the death, because they don't want to be wrong. It's what David King did with his Geelong prediction in 2011, where he just had to cling on to the hope that someone would knock us off, because he'd reached the point of no return. No-one likes to be wrong. But I'd rather be wrong and have a player on our squad succeed, than be right and watch him fail. So, if I say Billie Smedts was awful yesterday and that he should probably go back to the VFL, what happens if he stays in the side and kicks four against Brisbane? Am I angry about being wrong? Hell, no. If Murdoch earns a recall for the weekend's game ahead of (as I saw it) more worthy candidates and then plays a very good game (as he did)? Well, good on him.

 

[dazbroncos]

Just so far from the mark that I'm not even sure where to start.

We talk about the players going into a game like this, obviously without the required respect for their opposition. Well, besides Lonergan (who was simply outplayed by a good player today) he is the only regular defender in the side that you can count on not to try play like a millionaire in a game like this (and that includes players like Mackie, Enright and Taylor). Some of our players seem to need the challenge of playing on one of the stars of the competition to give the task their maximum focus. But, to Guthrie, it doesn't matter if he is playing on Lachie Plowman or Stephen Milne, he is going to treat his opponent with the utmost respect and make his primary focus to simply stop him from getting the ball and kicking goals. If he gets the ball himself, fine. He's composed, he makes good decisions and he is a good kick. He leaves the flashy stuff to others and it's not through any lack of skill on his part.

You say that only umpires should aim to go unnoticed in a game. How much external attention do you think players like Nick Smith, Ben Stratton, Dale Morris, Steven Morris, Steve Baker (when he wasn't belting someone) and so on get, when they're putting the clamps on one of the opposition's best forwards? But we're all over it when the Hibberds and Ibbotsons of the world have their 'breakout' seasons. Someone like Joel Patfull wins his club's best and fairest and the outside world is left thoroughly confused ('it's got to be Rockliff or Rich, doesn't it?').

Corey Enright is a once-in-a-genration BP/HB for Geelong. To have him in the same defence as Scarlett, Milburn, Taylor, Hunt and Mackie (all decent to elite stoppers and all elite attacking defenders) was obscene. But when you've got a defence that isn't full of some of the greatest players ever to pull on our guernsey, old-fashioned stoppers like Guthrie are critical. And that is the worst case scenario of his career trajectory from here: to be a solid, reliable defender for 150+ games.

Im gonna quote this just so more people can read it...

Guthrie does EXACTLY what he is taught to do.... and im no sage but i'll be amazed if he does not play 200 games with us. And the next time I read that he didn't get 23 touches so he is crap im going destroy a prefectly good 3500 laptop...

Go Catters

 

[catempire]

This thread was started March 10th one day after Nab Cup week 3 against North Melbourne.

I wonder if you are a big enough person to admit when you get it wrong? I happily will if you can point out the bit I got wrong.

My humble apologies Dan for failing to thoroughly research the origins of the thread.

My defence is if you were as sloppy to make one mistake (Guthrie didn't have five kicked on him against Richmond - I've corrected you on that once already and don't care to bother doing so again) you were more than capable of making two.

 

[DanA]

My humble apologies Dan for failing to thoroughly research the origins of the thread.

My defence is if you were as sloppy to make one mistake (Guthrie didn't have five kicked on him against Richmond - I've corrected you on that once already and don't care to bother doing so again) you were more than capable of making two.

4 by king
1 by Martin out muscled in the goal square

 

[catempire]

4 by king
1 by Martin out muscled in the goal square

Yeah, as I've said, I've corrected the record on this fallacy once before. By all means, have a re-read.

 

[dazbroncos]

27 games still showing nothing and plp say hes going to be a star

40 posts and added nothing....

hows it feel?

Go Catters

 

[DanA]

Yeah, as I've said, I've corrected the record on this fallacy once before. By all means, have a re-read.

Sorry was working off memory. IT was 2 by Martin. 3 by King. And I just went to the AFL website and checked.

1st Goal. King roves Mackie spoil on Reiwoldt who's one out. Guthrie chasing King clearly his opponent.
2nd Goal. King wins free kick goal and from just inside 50. Guthrie was his clearly his opponent
3rd Goal. Reiwoldt stabs into Martins, Guthrie was clearly chasing the lead as his opponent
4th goal. Martin marks one on one in the goal score. Directly contesting Guthrie
5th goal. King for Richmonds last goal in the game. Guthrie chasing can't get in range to smother.

Go check yourself.
http://www.afl.com.au/video/smart-replay/?round=CD_R201301406&matchId=CD_M20130140605

 

[catempire]

Sorry was working off memory. IT was 2 by Martin. 3 by King. And I just went to the AFL website and checked.

1st Goal. King roves Mackie spoil on Reiwoldt who's one out. Guthrie chasing King clearly his opponent.
2nd Goal. King wins free kick goal and from just inside 50. Guthrie was his clearly his opponent
3rd Goal. Reiwoldt stabs into Martins, Guthrie was clearly chasing the lead as his opponent
4th goal. Martin marks one on one in the goal score. Directly contesting Guthrie
5th goal. King for Richmonds last goal in the game. Guthrie chasing can't get in range to smother.

Go check yourself.
http://www.afl.com.au/video/smart-replay/?round=CD_R201301406&matchId=CD_M20130140605

I took a different view. Thanks anyway.

 

[DanA]

I took a different view. Thanks anyway.

Did you look? He was on the mark for three of them and closest man chasing for the other two. Which one or ones are in question?

 

[SleazySimon]

People may have forgotten the failed attempt at using Smedts as a half back last year. And before people say "yeah, but Smedts clearly isn't a defender", I'd remind them that Guthrie isn't really one either.

You can add Murdoch into this list as well. He's been thrown all over the place - backline, forward and outside mid. Played as a 'small' forward yesterday - best game of the year. I prefer him there to Smedts - He's taller, faster, and seems to be a more accurate kick.

I wish people would keep this in perspective when judging the youngsters. THunt was originally a back pocket who has learned to play in midfield, Brown is a forward now learning how to defend and Guthrie was a midfielder now playing in the backline, who tagged Ablett pretty effectively in the Gold Coast game.
No one from the early 2000's drafts (Bartel, Enright, etc) had to learn to be this versitile.

 

[dazbroncos]

Good points but I feel Guthrie and Murda have been poles apart this year. Guthrie has been far more consistent with his efforts over the distance - Murda flashed great at the start but really fell away.... Guthrie never got noticed as flashy but never faded out either...

Both will go the duration however i agree there...

Go Catters

 

[catempire]

It's amazing that Guthrie is able to maintain his place in the team if he's as hopeless as some are saying and has all of these bags of goals kicked on him.

 

[hbk_aus]

Yeah what do those dills on the match committee know anyway. Since when have they ever achieved anything.