Opinion Cameron Guthrie

[Pivo]

Guthrie is one of the very brightest lights in our team for the future and present. I'm really surprised more haven't noticed it.

Totally agree with you on this, Guthrie just goes about his work and, for the most part, gets the job done. It is something Corey Enright has spent a lot of his career doing.

He is a young player so he'll make mistakes, all young players do. It is how they learn their craft.

I also wanted to highlight the section of your post below to be a sh*t-stirrer.

Just seems a lot of fans now make their mind up about something and refuse to even consider there might be evidence to the contrary.

Have I mentioned to you that I think Shane Kerstan has the tools to be a midfielder?

 

[Partridge]

Totally agree with you on this, Guthrie just goes about his work and, for the most part, gets the job done. It is something Corey Enright has spent a lot of his career doing.

He is a young player so he'll make mistakes, all young players do. It is how they learn their craft.

If Guthrie ends up anywhere near Enright I'll be spinning around the lounge room floor going "whoop whoop whoop". It does seem he's clearly modelled himself on Enright. A very wise thing to do I'd say. No better teacher and you couldn't imagine how much he'll learn from another 20 games alongside him this year (and hopefully beyond).

Have I mentioned to you that I think Shane Kerstan has the tools to be a midfielder?

I'm still amazed at how strong Kersten is for his age. Considering that we're going to have guys like Walker, Kersten, Stringer, Thurlow, Hamling and Eardley at least in the VFL this year, it augurs for a good year at reserves level but much better at senior level for the years beyond that.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Agreed - even when Bewsy was healthy Guthrie has him shaded. Bews will be good I feel - but he is not in pole position.

GO Catters

He doesn't have Bews shaded, Daz, he's miles ahead of him. Bews (even if he's healthy) might not even be in the top 40 on our list, in the pecking order for a senior guernsey. It's unfair to Bews to even compare the two, at this stage at least.

 

[you pick one]

He doesn't have Bews shaded, Daz, he's miles ahead of him. Bews (even if he's healthy) might not even be in the top 40 on our list, in the pecking order for a senior guernsey. It's unfair to Bews to even compare the two, at this stage at least.

Out of interest where do you have Guthrie,I've got him around 27.

 

[cynical]

guthrie has been sloppy this preseason

to be honest i thought he'd really be putting his hand up and demanding J Hunts spot, so far he hasn't

he'll be back in the VFL, hopefully improve and get a few games later on

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Out of interest where do you have Guthrie,I've got him around 27.

In the 22.

 

[you pick one]

In the 22.

Based on what Partridge rightly points out a lack of small defenders or list talent?

 

[denicat]

Think there is some fair points on both sides.maybe when we play the bottom sides give time up the ground and see what we got

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Based on what Partridge rightly points out a lack of small defenders or list talent?

Based on the fact that I think he will be a locked-in member of the 22 throughout the year, regardless of who's available/unavailable.

 

[thejester]

It was interesting reading in the Prospectus that CD credited him with just 11 goals against across 18 games last year. I'm always slightly wary of stats like that but it's still a very, very low number for someone who was being given lockdown roles on small forwards week in, week out. Personally I think we actually have pretty strong positional depth for HBFs and small defenders in the twos, and that Guthrie has them all shaded easily - his composure with the ball is excellent for a player of his age.

 

[BUSTER29]

Based on the fact that I think he will be a locked-in member of the 22 throughout the year, regardless of who's available/unavailable.

Would you have him in your side ahead of a fully fit Josh Hunt?

 

[hbk_aus]

I think if you're a guy like Glass or Lonergan and you're taking the no.1 forward you can afford to have no attacking game. Small/ medium defenders need to be a part of the bigger machine that initiates quality counter-attacking forays. It's what makes Enright or any of the quality defenders in the competition so useful.

Nah dont agree. Take Nick Smith from the Swans for example. Doesnt play a huge role offensively for his side but is absolutely crucial in his roles to shut down small forwards and mids. Has done the job on Stevie J a couple of times. Of course u need runners from the backline but that doesnt mean that you cant have a shut-down back for small forwards who doesnt get the ball as much as others.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Would you have him in your side ahead of a fully fit Josh Hunt?

I think it's line-ball, but yes.

 

[BUSTER29]

I think it's line-ball, but yes.

Thats fair enough. Actually had this Guthrie discussion with a fellow Cats supporting mate
on Saturday while watching the Cats v Roos game.
We both had the feeling that Guthrie had maybe stalled a touch,or hadnt quite taken the step forward
that we were expecting after his promising 2011/2012 seasons.
Dont get me wrong, i rate him as a player and have no doubts he will be a very solid player for us,its just that
my expectations for him compared to the majority on this board are a little lower.
No doubts he will get there with more games under his belt,but that can be said about alot of our
youngsters also.
In regards to 2013,i am probably on the other side of the fence to most in my opinion.
If Josh Hunt was fit, he starts in the back pocket and Guthrie is fighting for a place on the interchange.
I thought J Hunt actually had a pretty good 2012, although he did have a couple of shockers.
For me, its Hunts spot to lose. If he's not available for the start of the season and Guthrie plays and plays
very well,he stays inthe 22, no problems. Its just that his output at the moment shouldnt/wouldnt warrant his selection in front of Hunt.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Thats fair enough. Actually had this Guthrie discussion with a fellow Cats supporting mate
on Saturday while watching the Cats v Roos game.
We both had the feeling that Guthrie had maybe stalled a touch,or hadnt quite taken the step forward
that we were expecting after his promising 2011/2012 seasons.
Dont get me wrong, i rate him as a player and have no doubts he will be a very solid player for us,its just that
my expectations for him compared to the majority on this board are a little lower.
No doubts he will get there with more games under his belt,but that can be said about alot of our
youngsters also.
In regards to 2013,i am probably on the other side of the fence to most in my opinion.
If Josh Hunt was fit, he starts in the back pocket and Guthrie is fighting for a place on the interchange.
I thought J Hunt actually had a pretty good 2012, although he did have a couple of shockers.
For me, its Hunts spot to lose. If he's not available for the start of the season and Guthrie plays and plays
very well,he stays inthe 22, no problems. Its just that his output at the moment shouldnt/wouldnt warrant his selection in front of Hunt.

Agreed, at the end of last season, Hunt was ahead of Guthrie, and by quite a distance.
Guthrie will have a short opportunity to show he's caught up to Hunt, but it may not be long enough for him to make up so much ground. If he doesn't make it up then when Hunt is ready he comes back in, as the better player.

 

[BUSTER29]

Agreed, at the end of last season, Hunt was ahead of Guthrie, and by quite a distance.
Guthrie will have a short opportunity to show he's caught up to Hunt, but it may not be long enough for him to make up so much ground. If he doesn't make it up then when Hunt is ready he comes back in, as the better player.

Yes, one of the points i was getting at is we should select the best player for the position at the moment,regardless of age.
If fit, at the moment it should be J Hunt.
By Round 20 it may be Guthrie.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

In regards to 2013,i am probably on the other side of the fence to most in my opinion.
If Josh Hunt was fit, he starts in the back pocket and Guthrie is fighting for a place on the interchange.
I thought J Hunt actually had a pretty good 2012, although he did have a couple of shockers.
For me, its Hunts spot to lose. If he's not available for the start of the season and Guthrie plays and plays
very well,he stays inthe 22, no problems. Its just that his output at the moment shouldnt/wouldnt warrant his selection in front of Hunt.

I think it will be a situation like we saw with Milburn in 2011 (minus the injuries hopefully). They look to have a core unit of eight defenders now (the set in stone Mackie/Lonergan/Enright/Taylor/Rivers and the more borderline Guthrie/Hunt/Brown). Obviously, at least six make the best 22 and then another may or may not be on the bench. But I can envision Chris Scott doing his utmost to keep the older players in the backline (i.e. basically all of them, besides Guthrie and Brown) fresh, by giving them a couple of rests during the season. Say Guthrie and Brown are outside the 22. If the match committee that week decides to rest Hunt or Enright, Guthrie comes in; if they rest Lonergan or Taylor, Brown probably comes in; and if they rest Mackie or Rivers, it depends on the match-ups, whether they bring in a tall or a small.

Hunt was good in the second half of the season (after his absolute stinkbomb against Carlton). Like I said, I don't expect any of them to be languishing in the twos for any great length of time (if at all). But Guthrie will be the incumbent to start the season and Hunt has to prove that he will provide more than Guthrie, or wait his turn. We shouldn't have to make any definitive choices until September.

 

[footscore]

Agreed, at the end of last season, Hunt was ahead of Guthrie, and by quite a distance.
Guthrie will have a short opportunity to show he's caught up to Hunt, but it may not be long enough for him to make up so much ground. If he doesn't make it up then when Hunt is ready he comes back in, as the better player.

disagree completely Fred and again, sorry if I sound as though I'm a know-all or whatever but it's only my opinion...Josh Hunt has been very good but he has also played alongside Scarlett in his prime while Wojcinski was a constant barometer.
Hunt not only takes up greater responsibility than he's done in previous years but he also lacks speed along with the ability to turn left/right on a dime which Guthrie provides.
Hate saying this shit as I love what Hunt has done for us but look at last year, why did he give away the 50 to Fasolo v Collingwood in the dying minutes of play?
He knew had Fasolo played on, he was done with, game against the Dogs where his opponent kicked 3 or against Betts who kicked 4 (even though Boris shared duties on him too).

I feel as though Scott will play Hunt similarly to Milburn in his final season, although will get more games than he did, and he will share them with Guthrie as the MC understand...although beaten for strength, Guthrie has the agility to really clamp down on these small forwards and we'd be silly to judge Guthrie harshly all because one seemingly average performance against a near full-strength North Melbourne.

If Guthrie is picked again this Friday evening, let's see how goes on these small Collingwood forwards (Fasolo perhaps) and let's also see how does with welcomed inclusions of Taylor, Enright and Rivers running beside him.

 

[Willo_]

disagree completely Fred and again, sorry if I sound as though I'm a know-all or whatever but it's only my opinion...Josh Hunt has been very good but he has also played alongside Scarlett in his prime while Wojcinski was a constant barometer.
Hunt not only takes up greater responsibility than he's done in previous years but he also lacks speed along with the ability to turn left/right on a dime which Guthrie provides.
Hate saying this shit as I love what Hunt has done for us but look at last year, why did he give away the 50 to Fasolo v Collingwood in the dying minutes of play?
He knew had Fasolo played on, he was done with, game against the Dogs where his opponent kicked 3 or against Betts who kicked 4 (even though Boris shared duties on him too).

I feel as though Scott will play Hunt similarly to Milburn in his final season, although will get more games than he did, and he will share them with Guthrie as the MC understand...although beaten for strength, Guthrie has the agility to really clamp down on these small forwards and we'd be silly to judge Guthrie harshly all because one seemingly average performance against a near full-strength North Melbourne.

If Guthrie is picked again this Friday evening, let's see how goes on these small Collingwood forwards (Fasolo perhaps) and let's also see how does with welcomed inclusions of Taylor, Enright and Rivers running beside him.

I still think Hunt was damned if he does or damned if he doesn't that game against the pies... He grabs Fasolo and gives away the 50... He doesn't and it was clear as day Fasolo was playing on..

 

[FredLeDeux]

I still think Hunt was damned if he does or damned if he doesn't that game against the pies... He grabs Fasolo and gives away the 50... He doesn't and it was clear as day Fasolo was playing on..

Exactly right.
For years it has been a blot on the game, penalising a defender simply because he realises a player is playing on, and reacts quicker than the umpire.
Not to mention the occasional psychologically unstable umpire who dwells on the defender when he knows it's going to happen.
It should be treated in the same way as the advantage rule; the defender takes a punt that the player has played on, regardless of whether the umpire has had time to call it, and is penalised only if he was wrong.

 

[footscore]

still doesn't excuse the fact that players such as Fasolo are aware they have the ability to get past Hunt if they really wanted too.

Those same players may think twice with Guthrie, given his closing speed.

Either way, I cannot disregard just how good Josh has been for so very long now but he does happen to play in one of most difficult positions on the ground and due to changes in the rules...no sling tackle, no bumping, no clumsy head high tackles, his best attribute which was brute strength, has now basically become redundant so I see him struggling this season even though he was solid last year (delayed pre season obviously will hurt him)

 

[numbwombat]

guthrie is in the same position mackie + josh hunt were in throughout 2k9 - 2k10 imo (between the nigh-invincible years and their jointly excellent 2011 + 2012s). not a bad player, still learning but doing well given age/experience/demands placed, but the weakest link in a monstrous back 6.

he's the best candidate i've seen so far (varcoe, if he plays there, will be a tactical sacrifice of defence for linebreaking) for next small spot in the backline. he's playing in what is still, imo, comfortably the most talented backline - defensively and offensively - in the afl, and looking flawed, not terrible. not many 20-y-o 20-game small backmen would look so serviceable next to enright and josh hunt.

his nab's been average and he tired throughout last year, but for mine still miles ahead of smedts/thurlow as a defending backman. not sure who else, besides maybe bews who i haven't seen, is really in contention for that role?

 

[meto]

Wombat,
his nab's been average and he tired throughout last year, but for mine still miles ahead o
smedts/thurlow as a defending backman. not sure who else, besides maybe bews who i haven't seen, is really in contention for that role?


I hope they don't ruin Smedts by insisting he play defense Billie is a natural smart arse forward much in the same mould as Johnson with all the tricks and natural opportune instincts.

As for Guthrie, he'll be alright just having to fight for form after a massive pre-season, maybe a little frustrated with himself, but he's an honest player who runs straight and hard probably Friday it'll all come together.

 

[numbwombat]

yeah, meto, i agree - don't think smedts is (or should be) any real chance to be in the backline. either a forward or eventually on the ball/wing. i would think thurlow, bews and guthrie are the only young & defensively-minded back pocket/HBFers coming through.

thejester - are there any other small specialist defenders playing vfl at the mo i haven't seen? or are you more thinking of the taylor hunt, motlop types who can win their own ball in the backline but are less defensive?

 

[thejester]

yeah, meto, i agree - don't think smedts is (or should be) any real chance to be in the backline. either a forward or eventually on the ball/wing. i would think thurlow, bews and guthrie are the only young & defensively-minded back pocket/HBFers coming through.

thejester - are there any other small specialist defenders playing vfl at the mo i haven't seen? or are you more thinking of the taylor hunt, motlop types who can win their own ball in the backline but are less defensive?

Bews and Eardley finished 7th and 8th in the VFL B&F playing as specialist small defenders. Sheringham has also spent time there although he probably falls into your second category.