Opinion Cameron Guthrie

meto · Mar 13, 2013

thejester said:
Bews and Eardley finished 7th and 8th in the VFL B&F playing as specialist small defenders. Sheringham has also spent time there although he probably falls into your second category.

Apart from Taylor Hunt pinch-hitting the other one on the list is Eardley, can play small defender very tough little guy, a bit smaller than the likes of Guthrie and Bews, but could fit.

Partridge · Mar 13, 2013

you pick one said:
Out of interest where do you have Guthrie,I've got him around 27.

Certain member of the best 22. When everyone is fit.

FredLeDeux · Mar 13, 2013

Partridge said:
Certain member of the best 22. When everyone is fit.

Not until he catches up to and passes Hunt. If he does.

Partridge · Mar 13, 2013

FredLeDeux said:
Not until he catches up to and passes Hunt. If he does.

Not sure about that. If it was a straight swap how come both of them played 18 games last year? And that's with Scarlett and Wocjinski both still there too.

FredLeDeux · Mar 13, 2013

Partridge said:
Not sure about that. If it was a straight swap how come both of them played 18 games last year? And that's with Scarlett and Wocjinski both still there too.

Guthrie played so many games last year because someone was always missing - eg Scarlett and Wojo.
He wasn't best 6 at any stage, and hence not best 22.
In my opinion, if he's to be best 22 this season, it can only be at the expense of Hunt, unless one of the other best 5 (more particularly, Mackie or Enright) drops off dramatically or gets injured.

Partridge · Mar 13, 2013

FredLeDeux said:
Guthrie played so many games last year because someone was always missing - eg Scarlett and Wojo.
He wasn't best 6 at any stage, and hence not best 22.
In my opinion, if he's to be best 22 this season, it can only be at the expense of Hunt, unless one of the other best 5 (more particularly, Mackie or Enright) drops off dramatically or gets injured.

Wocjinski maybe; not Scarlett. He played 16 games last year.

FredLeDeux · Mar 13, 2013

Partridge said:
Wocjinski maybe; not Scarlett. He played 16 games last year.

Whatever, to be best 22 this year as a defender, he has to replace Hunt, Mackie or Enright.
Of course, the other option for him in the best 22 is as a sub, where he was picked (I think?) several times last season, but that seems unlikely to me given the availability of players such as Smedts and Motlop, and/or other "resting" young mids.

Partridge · Mar 13, 2013

FredLeDeux said:
Whatever, to be best 22 this year as a defender, he has to replace Hunt, Mackie or Enright.
Of course, the other option for him in the best 22 is as a sub, where he was picked (I think?) several times last season, but that seems unlikely to me given the availability of players such as Smedts and Motlop, and/or other "resting" young mids.

Yep he was definitely sub a few times last year, one of the reasons I was shocked to find he'd played 18 games.

But I've got no doubt, Scott and company rate him extremely highly. He's going to be a fixture in the side in the very near future. And that could start at Round 1.

FredLeDeux · Mar 13, 2013

Partridge said:
Yep he was definitely sub a few times last year, one of the reasons I was shocked to find he'd played 18 games.

But I've got no doubt, Scott and company rate him extremely highly. He's going to be a fixture in the side in the very near future. And that could start at Round 1.

Yep, he looks like a keeper, he's pretty well certain for Rd 1, and he has at least a chance to establish himself there before Hunt comes back.

SJ · Mar 13, 2013

How often does one have one's best 22 fit?

Partridge · Mar 13, 2013

SJ said:
How often does one have one's best 22 fit?

In broad terms I'd say never.

AM · Mar 13, 2013

Partridge said:
In broad terms I'd say never.

Certainly as the season progresses that's so. I guess one of the selection dilemmas selectors often face is whether a gun who they know will get through a game but is 90% fit is better value than an lesser player who is 100%.

Partridge · Mar 13, 2013

AM said:
Certainly as the season progresses that's so. I guess one of the selection dilemmas selectors often face is whether a gun who they know will get through a game but is 90% fit is better value than an lesser player who is 100%.

It's almost always the latter option that works out to be correct. Footy clubs are very, very slow at learning it too.

AM · Mar 13, 2013

Partridge said:
It's almost always the latter option that works out to be correct. Footy clubs are very, very slow at learning it too.

Probably, but it's a case by case thing. Jimmeh got through last year with a crook foot okay. Garry Ablett got through last year never fully fit okay. SJ wasn't too bad in the 2011 GF....... I'd always give the 90% gun the time to prove he is capable of performing without any adverse affect on the injury before I considered the 100% number 35 soldier.

bulletproof · Mar 13, 2013

Partridge said:
Yep he was definitely sub a few times last year, one of the reasons I was shocked to find he'd played 18 games.

But I've got no doubt, Scott and company rate him extremely highly. He's going to be a fixture in the side in the very near future. And that could start at Round 1.

Why did they drop him at the business end last year? When we were already missing several players. Simpkin played in the final off the rookie list.

Given we have added players over the summer, I'd say he really needed a strong pre-season to get back up the list.

I don't think he is rated nearly as high as is made out. I'd say they were pretty disappointed with what he offered last year after a promising debut year. That happens but his form in pre-season would indicate that several players (Murdoch, Smedts, Horlin-Smith, Caddy, possibly even Thurlow) offer more.

I hope he turns it around but I don't see a Enright or, as was ludicrously mentioned, Ablett developing here.

vinum coupe · Mar 13, 2013

bulletproof said:
Why did they drop him at the business end last year? When we were already missing several players. Simpkin played in the final off the rookie list.

Well for one thing they were getting cute.
They took Murdoch into the final FFS

vinum coupe · Mar 13, 2013

bulletproof said:
I hope he turns it around but I don't see a Enright or, as was ludicrously mentioned, Ablett developing here.

And woah. Read my bloody post again.

bulletproof · Mar 13, 2013

vinum coupe said:
Well for one thing they were getting cute.
They took Murdoch into the final FFS

That was a mistake, I agree. But Murdoch was the young player they wanted to blood in a final which is sort of my point.

FredLeDeux · Mar 13, 2013

bulletproof said:
That was a mistake, I agree. But Murdoch was the young player they wanted to blood in a final which is sort of my point.

One hopes they didn't take him into a final because they wanted to blood him.

bulletproof · Mar 13, 2013

I am not going to post about Guthrie again. Clearly my view is in conflict with other good judges. I don't want to be defined by this issue like Varcoe and poor Meto.

Willo_ · Mar 13, 2013

FredLeDeux said:
One hopes they didn't take him into a final because they wanted to blood him.

Would have thought they took him in because his form at the time warranted the selection....
The experience he gains from it is just a bonus for us long term I think

Pivo · Mar 13, 2013

bulletproof said:
I am not going to post about Guthrie again. Clearly my view is in conflict with other good judges. I don't want to be defined by this issue like Varcoe and poor Meto.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a contrary opinion or voicing it. That is what makes forums interesting places to pass away the time.

If we all agreed it would be pretty boring.

People see different things in different players. I've regularly read other people's thoughts and gone away (or watched a replay) and said to myself "yeah, I can see where they are coming from".

vinum coupe · Mar 13, 2013

The Pivotonian said:
I don't think there is anything wrong with having a contrary opinion or voicing it. That is what makes forums interesting places to pass away the time.

If we all agreed it would be pretty boring.

People see different things in different players. I've regularly read other people's thoughts and gone away (or watched a replay) and said to myself "yeah, I can see where they are coming from".

I agree. And it''s why I have hardly posted in the thread.
I've already taken a bloody firm stance. No need to push it.

And FWIW, he is currently borderline best 22 for me. As much as it hurts me to say.

darren forssman · Mar 13, 2013

bulletproof said:
I am not going to post about Guthrie again. Clearly my view is in conflict with other good judges. I don't want to be defined by this issue like Varcoe and poor Meto.

your opinions are well thought out and posted...meto's varcoe rants are nonsensical, even bringing varcoe into random threads re other players.

footscore · Mar 13, 2013

thought they played Rupert because we lacked some speed in the back half?
No Varcoe or Wojak to give us some run

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