Opinion Cameron Guthrie

[FredLeDeux]

As far as I can remember, it's always been his endurance, for a guy who would have to play midfield as well as forward to justify a spot in an AFL team.

Yes, I remember seeing that mentioned as well as his kicking. He's got some work to do this season, it would seem. He did do some nice things in the Finals, but probably not enough of them.

 

[bulletproof]

As I have said on other threads I think he is struggling.

He's fortunate that he is in position that we don't have a lot of his type but I think we'll probably still play the more talented players like Smedts, Caddy, Murdoch, Motlop, Horlin-Sith and ask Corey or Kelly to fill in at half back.

He is not a midfielder.

I think we'll be pretty keen to get Josh Hunt back in after a couple of games from Guthrie.

 

[footscore]

I think we'll be pretty keen to get Josh Hunt back in after a couple of games from Guthrie.

so what happens when Josh retires?
Do we then start playing Guthrie?

 

[bulletproof]

so what happens when Josh retires?
Do we then start playing Guthrie?

Possibly though Thurlow may have gone past him by then.

 

[footscore]

Possibly though Thurlow may have gone past him by then.

but wouldn't it be perfect to play him now and allow him to get another 12-14 games under his belt from now until the end of the year rather than just thrown him in the deep end once Hunt retires?

 

[footscore]

not suggesting Hunt retires end of year but he's getting close to that time

 

[dazbroncos]

I wont be pulling him out yet. His preseason has not been like Murdoch - all flashy and good - but it has been solid and his role is also different. Im backing him in and keep sending him out.

GO Catters

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

As I have said on other threads I think he is struggling.

He's fortunate that he is in position that we don't have a lot of his type but I think we'll probably still play the more talented players like Smedts, Caddy, Murdoch, Motlop, Horlin-Sith and ask Corey or Kelly to fill in at half back.

In what way is he struggling? Let's be more specific. I would argue that it is unfortunate that he is in the position where every potential error by him can be magnified, which isn't the same for players up the ground (same for J.Hunt, compared to players like Kelly and Corey really). Compare his fumble carrying the ball out of the backline (which didn't cost us a goal) to Horlin-Smith's fumble as he was running the ball into the forward line (which absolutely cost us at least a shot at goal). Compare it to Murdoch's decision not to pump the ball into Hawkins one-out in the goal square and putting it out of bounds. GHS and JM's errors are quickly forgotten (as they should be for young players), because a handful of other things have to happen before the opposition kicks a goal from the mistake. Guthrie doesn't have that luxury.

It's similar for a player like Motlop. When he does something good, it's likely to be him burning down the wing, or kicking a great goal, things that are going to replayed again and again. When Guthrie does something good, it's not going to be something that makes the highlights package: it will be him getting perfect body position on his opponent, making the correct choice of whether to pick the ball up in the backline or slap it forward and towards the boundary, or making a perfect switch of play in the backline. If he stuffs any of those up, there's a very good chance the ball goes straight back over his head for a goal. But he doesn't stuff them up a lot.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

I Like Guthrie and he is tracking very well for a player of his experience.

Is not banging the door down to take over the flanker/pocket position but is doing a reasonable job. Jackson Thurlow is going to provide competition for spots with him this year and that can only be a good thing for the club.

 

[bulletproof]

I don't think he is poor player by any means but I think we have better and I am surprised when people put him in our best 22. He was dropped last year for good reason and his form so far has not indicated he is likely to win that spot back.

 

[strauchnyy]

Guthrie has had a sup par preseason, in terms of form shown in the nab cup games.

He has been poor because there would be higher expectations placed on him after coming off his 3rd preseason and having played 25 odd games.

Does this mean he has failed? Absolutely not.

Problem with Guthrie is he plays in a position where errors cost the team and wins go somewhat unoticed. Think smedts when he played in the backline. Guthrie has shown enough to illustrate that he will be a good player. He is consistent, good decision maker and has composure. Basically a player you want the ball in the hands of.

Also, Guthrie is a midfielder (mid in all his jnr career) forced to play in the backline. That is a credit to his composure and level head.

I think we need Guthrie to play hbf until thurlow and bews etc come along, only then he can be released into the mid and be that defensive holding mid that makes good decisions.

For the short term he needs to find a bit of form to cement his place in the 22, which I have no doubt he will.

 

[Daitro]

I'm not as convinced by him as others. He had six possessions on the weekend, eleven the week before (mostly handballs) and averages ten over his career; I just don't think it's enough for a small defender in today's game. He was good last year in restricting his opponent from scoring goals (a good start) but a good defender gets involved in the play through rebound 50s/ intercept marks etc. stats say he does very little of this.....so far. The prospectus put a query on his endurance when he was drafted so i'm wondering if that is something that's holding him back from moving more into the midfield.

 

[hbk_aus]

Possessions mean nothing these days. If he is given a lock down role and does it successfully, then I don't care how many times he touches it. As long as he does the right thing by the team when he does get the ball then he has done his job.

 

[Ricketts]

only my thoughts i see something in motlop smedts vardy murdoch george mccarthy kersten bews eardley hamling thurlow.dont see guthrie stringer walker sheringham brown burbury bathie .as having x factor

X Factor, hey?
Is that you Ryan Gamble?

 

[Daitro]

Possessions mean nothing these days. If he is given a lock down role and does it successfully, then I don't care how many times he touches it. As long as he does the right thing by the team when he does get the ball then he has done his job.

I think if you're a guy like Glass or Lonergan and you're taking the no.1 forward you can afford to have no attacking game. Small/ medium defenders need to be a part of the bigger machine that initiates quality counter-attacking forays. It's what makes Enright or any of the quality defenders in the competition so useful.

 

[SJ]

I think if you're a guy like Glass or Lonergan and you're taking the no.1 forward you can afford to have no attacking game. Small/ medium defenders need to be a part of the bigger machine that initiates quality counter-attacking forays. It's what makes Enright or any of the quality defenders in the competition so useful.

On the flip side, most times Geelong has struggled defensively over the past half-decade it has generally been when opposition small forwards have got on top of us. You could almost say this was a weakness of the Cats.

Some teams load up with these type of players. Having shut-down candidates can only be a good thing.

 

[footscore]

On the flip side, most times Geelong has struggled defensively over the past half-decade it has generally been when opposition small forwards have got on top of us. You could almost say this was a weakness of the Cats.

Some teams load up with these type of players. Having shut-down candidates can only be a good thing.

and that's a lock!








...bump this thread in 5 years time.

 

[meto]

As I have said on other threads I think he is struggling.

He's fortunate that he is in position that we don't have a lot of his type but I think we'll probably still play the more talented players like Smedts, Caddy, Murdoch, Motlop, Horlin-Sith and ask Corey or Kelly to fill in at half back.

He is not a midfielder.

I think we'll be pretty keen to get Josh Hunt back in after a couple of games from Guthrie.

You say he's not a midfielder but he played alot of his Earlier football around the middle?
Could be a candidate for an inside mid, he's got the build and is getting bigger.

 

[FredLeDeux]

On the flip side, most times Geelong has struggled defensively over the past half-decade it has generally been when opposition small forwards have got on top of us. You could almost say this was a weakness of the Cats.

Some teams load up with these type of players. Having shut-down candidates can only be a good thing.

You can afford an occasional Presti-type like Lonergan to lock down a KPF.
Otherwise all your defenders need to be able to defend and attack.
I would suggest that the well-documented problems we've had with mosquito fleets are mainly attributable to lack of forward pressure, meaning the oppo half-backs run it out too quickly; coupled with a general lack of foot speed in our midfield, meaning they don't get back quickly enough to block up our back line and help our defenders, who are then on a hiding to nothing - you can't expect your defenders to be as fast as these blokes (if they were, they'd be forwards!).

 

[meto]

You can afford an occasional Presti-type like Lonergan to lock down a KPF.
Otherwise all your defenders need to be able to defend and attack.
I would suggest that the well-documented problems we've had with mosquito fleets are mainly attributable to lack of forward pressure, meaning the oppo half-backs run it out too quickly; coupled with a general lack of foot speed in our midfield, meaning they don't get back quickly enough to block up our back line and help our defenders, who are then on a hiding to nothing - you can't expect your defenders to be as fast as these blokes (if they were, they'd be forwards!).

Exactly, midfield runners have to run down to defend and provide that breakout speed, apart from a couple of fast defenders the others have to be big and heavey enough to cope with huge forwards and the occasional
resting ruck.
I think Rivers is a key to strengthening our back half this year, providing not just some added height but weight in pack marking and spoiling and around the contest in general.
I thought we lacked a little bulk down back last year and were out bodied sometimes to often, Jared as third man will go along way in fixing that problem I believe.
Not only that but he's got experienced defensive savvey.

 

[David the Cat]

Gee...I'm amazed at the criticism of Guthrie...I'm with VC....I see a quality player in the making. His foot skills are elite he tackles well and he has good pace. He is way in front of Bews at this point in time.

Guthrie becoming a 200 gamer would not surprise me in the slightest.

 

[dazbroncos]

Gee...I'm amazed at the criticism of Guthrie...I'm with VC....I see a quality player in the making. His foot skills are elite he tackles well and he has good pace. He is way in front of Bews at this point in time.

Guthrie becoming a 200 gamer would not surprise me in the slightest.

Agreed - even when Bewsy was healthy Guthrie has him shaded. Bews will be good I feel - but he is not in pole position.

GO Catters

 

[you pick one]

Agreed - even when Bewsy was healthy Guthrie has him shaded. Bews will be good I feel - but he is not in pole position.

GO Catters

Might not be long though Daz,my concern with Guthrie is he doesn't seem to be coming on as quickly as you might expect,by that I mean to me he is very much at the same level as his first couple of games IMO and at that rate he will be overtaken this year in no time.

I'm having trouble finding spots for every one for RD1 and with SJ, Kelly, Stokes ,J hunt,Vardy,Hopefully Menzel to come back + Brown,Kersten and others knocking on the door he's in trouble, may get RD1 but would need a good one to be there RD2.

 

[Partridge]

In what way is he struggling? Let's be more specific. I would argue that it is unfortunate that he is in the position where every potential error by him can be magnified, which isn't the same for players up the ground (same for J.Hunt, compared to players like Kelly and Corey really). Compare his fumble carrying the ball out of the backline (which didn't cost us a goal) to Horlin-Smith's fumble as he was running the ball into the forward line (which absolutely cost us at least a shot at goal). Compare it to Murdoch's decision not to pump the ball into Hawkins one-out in the goal square and putting it out of bounds. GHS and JM's errors are quickly forgotten (as they should be for young players), because a handful of other things have to happen before the opposition kicks a goal from the mistake. Guthrie doesn't have that luxury.

It's similar for a player like Motlop. When he does something good, it's likely to be him burning down the wing, or kicking a great goal, things that are going to replayed again and again. When Guthrie does something good, it's not going to be something that makes the highlights package: it will be him getting perfect body position on his opponent, making the correct choice of whether to pick the ball up in the backline or slap it forward and towards the boundary, or making a perfect switch of play in the backline. If he stuffs any of those up, there's a very good chance the ball goes straight back over his head for a goal. But he doesn't stuff them up a lot.

That's exactly it right there. Perfectly argued. I'm nonplussed as to why fans now suddenly want flashiness and it seems nothing else in their young players. Solid decision making, good disposal and a calm head seemingly aren't required at all (although I bet a certain C.Scott sees things very differently). We even had footscore put Guthrie's entire game up for inspection, which pretty clearly showed his game wasn't nearly as bad as some thought it was. Even the goals that snake Thomas kicked weren't down to him. Just seems a lot of fans now make their mind up about something and refuse to even consider there might be evidence to the contrary.

And now it seems Thurlow is the latest golden boy, he's already on a par with Guthrie to some it seems. Hate to break it to you, but no he's not. Not this year. Not yet. Has talent but needs a lot more size to have a hope of competing with strong seasoned bodies week in, week out.

Guthrie is one of the very brightest lights in our team for the future and present. I'm really surprised more haven't noticed it.

 

[Partridge]

Might not be long though Daz,my concern with Guthrie is he doesn't seem to be coming on as quickly as you might expect,by that I mean to me he is very much at the same level as his first couple of games IMO and at that rate he will be overtaken this year in no time.

I'm having trouble finding spots for every one for RD1 and with SJ, Kelly, Stokes ,J hunt,Vardy,Hopefully Menzel to come back + Brown,Kersten and others knocking on the door he's in trouble, may get RD1 but would need a good one to be there RD2.

Q1. How many of those are small defenders?
Q2. How is he in trouble? Doesn't have enough running bounces per game to remind people of Wocjinski?

We've got one other genuine competitor for his spot - Josh Hunt. That's fair enough, and Hunt has had a very good last 2 years I would say. But, he turns 31 this Wednesday; Guthrie will turn 21 just before the finals. If Hunt doesn't go on next season, do you want Guthrie sitting on 20 games (where he currently is) or 40 games (where he should be). I know what I'd prefer.

The club has a chance at the moment to get games into a core of youngsters - Guthrie, Horlin-Smith, Smedts, Murdoch, plus Caddy and Brown and Vardy (plus anyone else I've forgotten). Getting another 20 games each into all those players is as important as anything the club does over the next season or so. We saw dramatically with Hawkins what a difference getting through those games makes; and we're seeing with Duncan and Taylor Hunt now the difference even 30 games makes compared to debutants.