Cameron Ling doesn't rate Voss

[SizeMatters]

And if the Lions merger never happened he would've been lucky to have captained one.

Gotta say mate, for someone "unbiased" like your good self you do seem pretty vested in this topic.

How did the merger give us the 3 premierships? The core of the Brisbane Lions was made up of Brisbane Bears players who stuck through thick and thin in a s**t team. Through their adversity it has bred success.

 

[Benny78]

How did the merger give us the 3 premierships? The core of the Brisbane Lions was made up of Brisbane Bears players who stuck through thick and thin in a s**t team. Through their adversity it has bred success.

It's like us merging with Brisbane and adding Rockliff, Zorko, Beams to our list.

 

[SizeMatters]

Fact: At least half of your premiership players never wore a Bears jumper, but yeah, keep believing that.

So I guess the other half were Fitzroy players right (as per your first post)? The only premiership player who we got from the merger to play in the GFs was Chris Johnson... hardly the difference between 3 premierships and 0.

 

[SizeMatters]

It's like us merging with Brisbane and adding Rockliff, Zorko, Beams to our list.

Ah... no. totally different. Fitzroy were losing good players left, right and centre as they couldn't even afford to pay them among other things. It's like Geelong merging with a mid tier non AFL affiliated VFL club.

 

[PieLebo87]

So I guess the other half were Fitzroy players right (as per your first post)? The only premiership player who we got from the merger to play in the GFs was Chris Johnson... hardly the difference between 3 premierships and 0.

Yes, Barker (Scott) and Molloy (Michael) amongst others didn't get you anyone huh? Let's not even get started on the other perks, that's a can best kept closed.

 

[SizeMatters]

Yes, Barker (Scott) and Molloy (Michael) amongst others didn't get you anyone huh? Let's not even get started on the other perks, that's a can best kept closed.

Salty over the Molloy/Michael trade I see. Can't blame you.

Anyways, this thread is about Voss. Should comfortably be in the top 10. No idea what Ling was smoking.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

The hatred of Collingwood/Buckley bashers does not equate to fact either.

Opinion does not equal hatred.

 

[RandB]

Voss #1

Lingy, time to dress up as Ron McDon again because you're a clown.

 

[PieLebo87]

Salty over the Molloy/Michael trade I see. Can't blame you.

Anyways, this thread is about Voss. Should comfortably be in the top 10. No idea what Ling was smoking.

Great deflection from the argument. I'll take it as you conceding.

Also, agree with you, Voss worthy of top 10.

 

[PieLebo87]

Opinion does not equal hatred.

Errrr your opinion is shrouded by your emotions. You haven't actually provided any facts, just opinions.

Your opinion of Buckley and Collingwood is fairly clear too.

 

[HahnPremium]

Ling is just a giant failure and disappointment as a football commentator.
Two gears.
1/ State obvious. Reinforce obvious. Back favourite. Adopt popular opinion.
2/Say something outlandish to try and break conservative boring tag then quickly downshift back to gear one.

 

[Freomaniac]

I am assuming Ling was on the Forums here. When Voss was coach.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Errrr your opinion is shrouded by your emotions. You haven't actually provided any facts, just opinions.

Your opinion of Buckley and Collingwood is fairly clear too.

Why I am emotionally involved?

You clearly are however.

Opinion does not need facts. My opinion is as valid as anyone else. The relative rating of Voss and Buckley is always going to be opinion.

 

[Aeglos]

fwiw I have Voss the better player over their careers, but Buckley ahead in the 2000s.
Was pretty young back then so I don't place a great deal of weight in my own opinions.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Why I am emotionally involved?

You clearly are however.

Opinion does not need facts. My opinion is as valid as anyone else. The relative rating of Voss and Buckley is always going to be opinion.

Same opinions that decided no Collingwood player was worthy of getting a spot in the TOTC, even though it was only an 8 team comp for most of the century and even less for the remainder, second most premierships including 4 in a row, but no bias there, no sirie!!

 

[Frank Gallagher]

fwiw I have Voss the better player over their careers, but Buckley ahead in the 2000s.
Was pretty young back then so I don't place a great deal of weight in my own opinions.

Voss wasn't an instant star, took him a few years to find his feet, Buckley was good from the get go.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Salty over the Molloy/Michael trade I see. Can't blame you.

Anyways, this thread is about Voss. Should comfortably be in the top 10. No idea what Ling was smoking.

Didn't you have a list of over 50 players? Lol, off the top of my head you got Simon Black as a direct result of the merger (Brownlow-multiple AA)

Chris Johnson (multiple AA)

Mal Micheal (not sure if he was AA, but if he wasn't he was close)

One of the Scott brothers.

Martin Pike (Last Fitzroy BaF winner)

If i added 3-4 AA players to the current Collingwood list how do you think they'd go? The merger wasn't part of the reason you won 3 in a row, it was the reason, anyone why says otherwise with a str8 face needs medication.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Same opinions that decided no Collingwood player was worthy of getting a spot in the TOTC, even though it was only an 8 team comp for most of the century and even less for the remainder, second most premierships including 4 in a row, but no bias there, no sirie!!

Not sure how that is relevant to my opinion.

Happy for you to have yours, but it doesn't influence my opinion.

 

[Roylion]

Didn't you have a list of over 50 players? Lol, off the top of my head you got Simon Black as a direct result of the merger (Brownlow-multiple AA)

Direct? I don't recall Simon Black playing for Fitzroy. Try 'indirect'.

Simon Hawking (plus Brisbane Bear Brent Green) was traded to Sydney in 1997 for pick 31: Simon Black. Simon Hawking failed to play a senior game for the Brisbane Lions, then failed to play a senior game for the Sydney Swans and then failed to play a senior game for Collingwood. Brent Green was a Bear who played 7 games for Sydney. That simply came down to excellent drafting. There were 30 prior opportunities to draft Simon Black.

Chris Johnson (multiple AA)

Twice All-Australian.

Mal Micheal (not sure if he was AA, but if he wasn't he was close)

Traded for Jarrod Molloy who played 37 games for Brisbane over 4 years. Molloy was runner up to Paul Licuria in the 2001 Copeland Trophy and played in the 2002 Grand Final for Collingwood. Michael was never All-Australian.

One of the Scott brothers.

Brad Scott. Never an All-Australian.

Martin Pike (Last Fitzroy BaF winner)

Martin Pike was delisted by North Melbourne at the end of the 2000 season and was drafted at Pick 33 in the 2000 draft by the Lions. Four years after the 'merger'. Another astute drafting decision.

If i added 3-4 AA players to the current Collingwood list how do you think they'd go?

Try two All-Australians - one of whom was drafted in the second round at Pick 31.

The merger wasn't part of the reason you won 3 in a row, it was the reason, anyone why says otherwise with a str8 face needs medication.

Let's not forget that the Brisbane Bears made the finals in 1995 and 1996 (finishing third in 1996). Of the eight players gained through the 'merger', (which incidentally was Ok'd by all the clubs, including Collingwood), Simon Hawking played 0 games for the Lions (1 year) and was traded for Pick #31 along with Bears player Brent Green.

Nick Carter and Shane Clayton played 5 games each (2 years). Carter was traded for selection 45 and Clayton was delisted at the end of 1998.

John Barker played 8 games (1 year) and was traded along with Brisbane Bear Nathan Chapman for Brad Scott.

Scott Bamford played 24 games (2 years) was traded along with Bear Tristan Lynch for Martin McKinnon.

Jarrod Molloy played 37 games (over 4 years).

Many, apart from Molloy, did not have huge currency at the time of their trading and after playing with Fitzroy they struggled to get a game with the Brisbane Lions. Only Molloy, Johnson and Boyd were regulars when fit. Bamford was only a fringe player. The others weren't even close. Black was a good selection at 31, but that was an astute selection. Other clubs had 30 chances to secure him and didn't.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

As one of Gods clowns Ling cannot be taken seriously.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Direct? I don't recall Simon Black playing for Fitzroy. Try 'indirect'.

Simon Hawking (plus Brisbane Bear Brent Green) was traded to Sydney in 1997 for pick 31: Simon Black. Simon Hawking failed to play a senior game for the Brisbane Lions, then failed to play a senior game for the Sydney Swans and then failed to play a senior game for Collingwood. Brent Green was a Bear who played 7 games for Sydney. That simply came down to excellent drafting. There were 30 prior opportunities to draft Simon Black.



Twice All-Australian.



Traded for Jarrod Molloy who played 37 games for Brisbane over 4 years. Molloy was runner up to Paul Licuria in the 2001 Copeland Trophy and played in the 2002 Grand Final for Collingwood. Michael was never All-Australian.



Brad Scott. Never an All-Australian.



Martin Pike was delisted by North Melbourne at the end of the 2000 season and was drafted at Pick 33 in the 2000 draft by the Lions. Four years after the 'merger'.



Try two All-Australians - one of whom was drafted in the second round at Pick 31.



Let's not forget that the Brisbane Bears made the finals in 1995 and 1996 (finishing third in 1996). Of the eight players gained through the 'merger', (which incidentally was Ok'd by all the clubs, including Collingwood), Simon Hawking played 0 games for the Lions (1 year) and was traded for Pick #31 along with Bears player Brent Green.

Nick Carter and Shane Clayton played 5 games each (2 years). Carter was traded for selection 45 and Clayton was delisted at the end of 1998.

John Barker played 8 games (1 year) and was traded along with Brisbane Bear Nathan Chapman for Brad Scott.

Scott Bamford played 24 games (2 years) was traded along with Bear Tristan Lynch for Martin McKinnon.

Jarrod Molloy played 37 games (over 4 years).

Many, apart from Molloy, did not have huge currency at the time of their trading and after playing with Fitzroy they struggled to get a game with the Brisbane Lions. Only Molloy, Johnson and Boyd were regulars when fit. Bamford was only a fringe player. The others weren't even close. Black was a good selection at 31, but that was an astute selection. Other clubs had 30 chances to secure him and didn't.

Direct? I don't recall Simon Black playing for Fitzroy. Try 'indirect'.

Simon Hawking (plus Brisbane Bear Brent Green) was traded to Sydney in 1997 for pick 31: Simon Black. Simon Hawking failed to play a senior game for the Brisbane Lions, then failed to play a senior game for the Sydney Swans and then failed to play a senior game for Collingwood. Brent Green was a Bear who played 7 games for Sydney. That simply came down to excellent drafting. There were 30 prior opportunities to draft Simon Black.



Twice All-Australian.



Traded for Jarrod Molloy who played 37 games for Brisbane over 4 years. Molloy was runner up to Paul Licuria in the 2001 Copeland Trophy and played in the 2002 Grand Final for Collingwood. Michael was never All-Australian.



Brad Scott. Never an All-Australian.



Martin Pike was delisted by North Melbourne at the end of the 2000 season and was drafted at Pick 33 in the 2000 draft by the Lions. Four years after the 'merger'.



Try two All-Australians - one of whom was drafted in the second round at Pick 31.



Let's not forget that the Brisbane Bears made the finals in 1995 and 1996 (finishing third in 1996). Of the eight players gained through the 'merger', (which incidentally was Ok'd by all the clubs, including Collingwood), Simon Hawking played 0 games for the Lions (1 year) and was traded for Pick #31 along with Bears player Brent Green.

Nick Carter and Shane Clayton played 5 games each (2 years). Carter was traded for selection 45 and Clayton was delisted at the end of 1998.

John Barker played 8 games (1 year) and was traded along with Brisbane Bear Nathan Chapman for Brad Scott.

Scott Bamford played 24 games (2 years) was traded along with Bear Tristan Lynch for Martin McKinnon.

Jarrod Molloy played 37 games (over 4 years).

Many, apart from Molloy, did not have huge currency at the time of their trading and after playing with Fitzroy they struggled to get a game with the Brisbane Lions. Only Molloy, Johnson and Boyd were regulars when fit. Bamford was only a fringe player. The others weren't even close. Black was a good selection at 31, but that was an astute selection. Other clubs had 30 chances to secure him and didn't.

Oh so it was only 2 All Australians plus Mal Micheal - Brad Scott - Boyd - a list of only 50 to pick the eyes out of and an enhanced salary cap.

Now that i think of it, it's amazing you guys actually won a game with so many disadvantages.

Direct or indirect, if it wasn't for the merger you don't get those players, you can dice it anyway you like.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Pretty close. Maybe if you take out the Coll vs Briz games it gets closer

Met 3 times in finals 2-1 Voss's way.

 

[Sttew]

If we are talking post 2000, i.e., 2000 - 2017 Voss arguably should miss out. As great a player he was, Voss' best was arguably 2003 and before.

 

[captain cotch 9]

Ling is a massive disaster. He is so bad its actually hard to watch.
Its laughable that people originally thought he could be a coach.
My 3 yrold nephew would know more about football than Ling
(coincidence they are both Rangas)

 

[Sando22]

Cameron Ling is a goose.