Cameron White - the bear is in rare form!

[bluespooner]

I wonder why a bloke who has nearly 8000 FC runs at 40.53 with 17 100's and 38 50's is selected into the Victorian side, especially after a 500 run season .

To give this some perspective, as you are attempting to use statistics to deceive. White in the 2012/13 Shield made 510 runs from 9 games at an average of 36.42; this is what you are suggesting as a stand-out season. Wow!
Just have a look at what some other specialist batsmen in the Shield did last year; and it was a poor year for batsmen:
Maddison (opening) 532 (8 games) at 35.46
Rogers (opening) 742 (10) at 49.46
Ferguson 639 (9) at 39.93
Doolan 715 (10) at 42.05
Cosgrove 784 (11) at 39.2
Burns 587 (10) at 32.61
and of course Ponting 911 (9) at 75.91

So a stand-out White season as you describe it, I think averaging 36.42 is just average, and he has not out-performed other specialist batsmen that might also have claim to higher honours. Who in turn, were by and large ordinary with the exception of Ponting (I include him because his results are what a batsman needs to be aiming at).

Comparing White with all-rounders, if that is what White can be called, a bloke that endeavours to bowl wrist spin but can't spin a leg-spinner and his control is a joke. White last Shield season got 4 wickets at 42.50, the same number Cosgrove got but his was a better wicket taking average. White is up against:
with the bat Henriques 385 (5) at 77.00; ball, 14 wickets at 18.00;
with the bat Hopes 473 (8) at 31.53; ball, 32 at 22.75;
with the bat Faulkner 444 (10) at 34.15; ball, 39 at 20.33;
with the bat Butterworth 320 (11) at 26.66;(a bloke that has performed consistently over a number of seasons and in big games); ball, 45 at 20.8.

No matter what way you spin White's 2012/13 season doesn't stack up the players mentioned.

I wonder how many soft runs in White's first class record were made in English county cricket? In a decidedly ordinary period of Australian cricket, White is a stand-out as the most ordinary player to ever get a cap for Australia.

 

[eth-dog]

To give this some perspective, as you are attempting to use statistics to deceive. White in the 2012/13 Shield made 510 runs from 9 games at an average of 36.42; this is what you are suggesting as a stand-out season. Wow!
Just have a look at what some other specialist batsmen in the Shield did last year; and it was a poor year for batsmen:
Maddison (opening) 532 (8 games) at 35.46
Rogers (opening) 742 (10) at 49.46
Ferguson 639 (9) at 39.93
Doolan 715 (10) at 42.05
Cosgrove 784 (11) at 39.2
Burns 587 (10) at 32.61
and of course Ponting 911 (9) at 75.91

So a stand-out White season as you describe it, I think averaging 36.42 is just average, and he has not out-performed other specialist batsmen that might also have claim to higher honours. Who in turn, were by and large ordinary with the exception of Ponting (I include him because his results are what a batsman needs to be aiming at).

Comparing White with all-rounders, if that is what White can be called, a bloke that endeavours to bowl wrist spin but can't spin a leg-spinner and his control is a joke. White last Shield season got 4 wickets at 42.50, the same number Cosgrove got but his was a better wicket taking average. White is up against:
with the bat Henriques 385 (5) at 77.00; ball, 14 wickets at 18.00;
with the bat Hopes 473 (8) at 31.53; ball, 32 at 22.75;
with the bat Faulkner 444 (10) at 34.15; ball, 39 at 20.33;
with the bat Butterworth 320 (11) at 26.66;(a bloke that has performed consistently over a number of seasons and in big games); ball, 45 at 20.8.

No matter what way you spin White's 2012/13 season doesn't stack up the players mentioned.

I wonder how many soft runs in White's first class record were made in English county cricket? In a decidedly ordinary period of Australian cricket, White is a stand-out as the most ordinary player to ever get a cap for Australia.

Where did I suggest it was a stand out season? I'm just saying that a bloke in the top 10 run scorers in the shield last season might, just might, deserve his place in the side. I see ONE Victorian higher than him on the runs list. Of the top 7 that played on the weekend (Rogers, Quiney, Handscomb, White, Wade, Hussey, Christian) only one bloke had more runs in the shield last season. So, going by your logic, only 1, maybe 2 players from the shield side that just played (given that Wade was playing in the test side) deserved their place.

Stop putting words in my mouth, never said that it was a stand out season. You're just inventing arguments that have no basis in fact to suit your needs.

Never said that White was an allrounder. Again, putting words in my mouth.

No matter way you spin it he deserves his place in the Victorian side, as proof you changed the arguement.

Thanks for playing kid

 

[Dan Cooper]

...I still maintain one of the worse things to happen to his International Test prospects was the passing of D.Hookes. Hookesy forced him to bowl alot more than he would have when he was coach and it was when White's bowling was at its best.

No question about that

 

[Dan Cooper]

Where did I suggest it was a stand out season? I'm just saying that a bloke in the top 10 run scorers in the shield last season might, just might, deserve his place in the side.

Exactly right. I didn't read that into your post because it wasn't there >

Honest to god, did you see the second half of the shield season? My guess is a firm no. He scored 510 runs at 36- equal 9th on the runs scored list, despite his horrendous start. Also, would you call bowlers like Sayers, Richardson, Botha, Bollinger and Lyon as mediocre? I wouldn't

 

[bluespooner]

Where did I suggest it was a stand out season?

Here,

especially after a 500 run season

Stop putting words in my mouth, never said that it was a stand out season.

It would be best if someone did put words in your mouth, at least that would provide you with an excuse for the utter s**t you post in this forum.

Never said that White was an allrounder.

Here,

Below average in bowling is a bit harsh, nearly 200 FC wickets @ just under 40 is a pretty good record for a part timer,

No matter way you spin it he deserves his place in the Victorian side, as proof you changed the arguement.

Except the person starting this thread was attempting to present an argument for why White should be considered for national selection, here:

The best way to kick the selection door down is make lots of runs or take lots of wickets. Nothing new there.

My initial comment was that the horse has bolted for White in respect to national selection and other posters have indicated he was lucky to survive being sacked given his ordinary start to the last Sheffield Shield season.

 

[Dan Cooper]

To give this some perspective, as you are attempting to use statistics to deceive. White in the 2012/13 Shield made 510 runs from 9 games at an average of 36.42; this is what you are suggesting as a stand-out season. Wow!...

He plainly didn't say or suggest White had a "standout season" >

Honest to god, did you see the second half of the shield season? My guess is a firm no. He scored 510 runs at 36- equal 9th on the runs scored list, despite his horrendous start. Also, would you call bowlers like Sayers, Richardson, Botha, Bollinger and Lyon as mediocre? I wouldn't

The person attempting to deceive is you by putting words in someone's mouth they never said.

 

[eth-dog]

Here,

It would be best if someone did put words in your mouth, at least that would provide you with an excuse for the utter s**t you post in this forum.

Incorrect, implied that it was a solid season. Not my fault you misinterpreted it. Again, putting words in my mouth. Aww, you got proven wrong so you resorted to personal attacks. Does it make you feel better?

Here,

Except the person starting this thread was attempting to present an argument for why White should be considered for national selection, here:

So you consider "part-timer" as allrounder? Game, set, match

My initial comment was that the horse has bolted for White in respect to national selection and other posters have indicated he was lucky to survive being sacked given his ordinary start to the last Sheffield Shield season.

So this wasn't you?

I'm not sure on what basis White gets selected in the Victorian side - batsman, bowler or good team man with connections to the Victorian selectors. Victorian selectors have a penchant for sticking with 30 year olds has-beens and never-were-beens as part of their desperate attempts to win Shield finals or whatever, meaningless one day competition is in vogue.




You see batsmanship is not about blocking 20 balls and then teeing off on the 21st, as was the case when White somehow got into the Australian one day team - apparently, he was well liked. Batsmanship is about keeping the scoreboard ticking over by taking minimal risks. On this measure you would have to say that White is not a batsman's a-hole.

My mistake, it was.

 

[Dan Cooper]

Except the person starting this thread was attempting to present an argument for why White should be considered for national selection, here...

Absolutely wrong again >

I don't think for a minute Cam White will add to his 4 Test career. But all he can do is perform and hope, and at present he's in almost career best form with the bat.

In total agreement. As I stated earlier: "I don't think for a minute Cam White will add to his 4 Test career."

White is in good enough nick at the moment to peel off a big 100 next game, but I think Bailey is already pencilled in for Brisbane, and probably deserves to be.

Now you are attempting to put words into my mouth. Read what people actually write. Don't try and make it up

 

[eddiesmith]

Ahh the Cameron White argument, a bloke very much hated by so many and its hard to understand, its not like he is an arrogant arsehole like Clarke or Watson or Warner, maybe they all hate him because he was selected as the no1 spinner in a test match which is obviously his fault...

 

[mediumsizered]

Absolutely wrong again >







Now you are attempting to put words into my mouth. Read what people actually write. Don't try and make it up

I admire your efforts in showing bluespooner up for what he is, but he will continue to stick to his agenda no matter how much you point out the lies he posts.

You could tell him today is Monday & then he will argue the toss with you about why you are wrong in saying it is Wednesday. He is not interested in comprehending what others post, his only interest is in his own opinion.

 

[bluespooner]

Now you are attempting to put words into my mouth. Read what people actually write. Don't try and make it up

Here is what you posted in quotes:

The best way to kick the selection door down is make lots of runs or take lots of wickets. Nothing new there.

White is doing that and Ahmed's 6 for against WA has strengthened his Test claims whether it appeals to you or not

all he can do is perform and hope, and at present he's in almost career best form with the bat.

You are right about White and big hundreds. When it comes to batting Boof only talks in 100s, and obviously the coach and selectors talk to each other.

I stand by the comment that the author of this thread was attempting to produce an argument as to why White should be considered for Test selection and this is the way other posters in this thread have replied; as you have responded in post 53.

 

[Dan Cooper]

I admire your efforts in showing bluespooner up for what he is, but he will continue to stick to his agenda no matter how much you point out the lies he posts.

You could tell him today is Monday & then he will argue the toss with you about why you are wrong in saying it is Wednesday. He is not interested in comprehending what others post, his only interest is in his own opinion.

Sad isn't it.

 

[bluespooner]

Sad isn't it.

Being shown up.

 

[Dan Cooper]

Being shown up.

No behaving like a chiild pretending people wrote things they didn't.

Sounds like it's what you do here, and that's sad.

 

[bluespooner]

You haven't responded to the quotes I've posted, where in your own words you have stated that White is strengthening his Test claims. So here is how other posters have responded to the thread, all discussing White's chances of a Test recall in one form or another:

If White can put together a good season with the bat and a few centuries then maybe he should deserve consideration again.

Must every player who puts together a couple of decent performances in a row be considered a test candidate

Yeah. Again western royboy explains part of my point a lot better. White needs a big season with centuries to get the selectors to even consider him again.

too many overrated average players in the test side already.

One thing to consider about White is that the selectors may consider him to fufill the same role as Smith.

White needs big Tons to get a look in IMO.

Too many ahead of him. He is coming from a long way back

I don't think his International career is over. Hopefully he smashes the Shield this year.

Still he needs to turn those 60-80's into 100's before I'd pick him. Hopefully he has a couple of big scores soon.

White should be in consideration for Perth or Melbourne should the others fail.

Although I think White's only chance at another Australian gig is in the 20/50 over games; he will be coming from a fair way back.

The whole thread has been about White's prospects of returning to the national teams Test, one day, 20/20 and this is how posters have responded; its sad that you now endeavour to suggest is is something else; I assume all of these posters have misinterpreted your fairly clear intentions, especially as you responded without stating your intentions where not intended to be discussing White's test prospects.

If this was not your intention you need to learn to express yourself more accurately.

 

[bluespooner]

Incorrect, implied that it was a solid season.

Here is what you said:

Honest to god, did you see the second half of the shield season? My guess is a firm no. He scored 510 runs at 36- equal 9th on the runs scored list, despite his horrendous start. Also, would you call bowlers like Sayers, Richardson, Botha, Bollinger and Lyon as mediocre? I wouldn't

I wonder why a bloke who has nearly 8000 FC runs at 40.53 with 17 100's and 38 50's is selected into the Victorian side, especially after a 500 run season

It seems to me you are stating he had a wonderful season, most logical people would view it the same.

 

[Mkcaptain]

As interesting as this argument is... can we all get back to enjoying White's form

 

[dan warna]

I look at the Victorian middle order and its lacking a lot of strength. The top 4 then nothing.
Missing the Mac with bat and ball.
White should have been and could have been but let too many people mess with him. He did have a couple of seasons batting around 50.
hussey looks more vulnerable than ever.
No way white would have batted in australia's hey day, but when compared to average performers like Warner, Smith, Hughes all averaging in the 30s and batting inconsistently, he does look decidedly better.
Bailey comes across as one real leader though, his decision making and maturity puts him leaps ahead of so many.

 

[Dan Cooper]

As interesting as this argument is... can we all get back to enjoying White's form

White has been very consistent with the bat this year. Great for him personally and for Victoria too because, as stated directly above they are weak in the middle order with absence of Mac and the poor form of Huss.

But as I've stated repeatedly here - I don't think for a minute Cam White will add to his 4 Test career.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Wade is no mug at 5 dan warna. It certainly drops off after that but that could be said for pretty most Shield sides now.

 

[Mkcaptain]

I'm pretty comfortable with our top 5 (until we lose Rogers). Hopefully Handscomb continues to step it up this year

 

[dan warna]

handscomb and finch have so much talent and yet fail to convert.
talk of test selection after OD/T20 form is ridiculous until they grow up and perform at state level.
And frankly both of them have struggled.

 

[western royboy]

handscomb and finch have so much talent and yet fail to convert.
talk of test selection after OD/T20 form is ridiculous until they grow up and perform at state level.
And frankly both of them have struggled.

At this stage as red ball players

Handscomb

Daylight

More Daylight

Finch

 

[the_interloper]

Any talk about White playing in the Test side would be ridiculous, unless it's as a bowler...

 

[philohk]

At this stage as red ball players

Handscomb

Daylight

More Daylight

Finch

I haven't seen Handscomb but know he's been talked up a bit. What's your opinion on his prospects?