Camp Findings from Sam McClure

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SaltPeter

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Yup. I wouldn't be suprised either if on the back of the camp we changed up our draft interviews to be more cutting and resilience based. Roo is especially brutal on some players and I think Greenwood is clearly on Roos sh*t list. Probably why he didn't even give Nicks a say on the trades.

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You should probably stop now. Nicks hadn't even been appointed when the Greenwood trade was made.
 

Jarman3

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There will be a settlement which will result in an undisclosed payment to CM plus a brief retraction buried in the newspaper of some minor elements of the report. All parties will then be bound by non-disclosures of the settlement.
If I were CM, I wouldn't be accepting any settlement where the retraction is given any less time, space or prominence than the articles putting the boot into them. Getting a payment for the damage already done to their reputation only goes halfway - without the very significant public retractions they won't go near restoring their reputation going forward. I would be demanding the same number of articles in the same locations and similar size in terms of word count / column inches.
 

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adelaidecrows

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Roo is one of the least savvy operators in the league. He couldn't manage his way out of a wet paper bag and you would be a fool to place too much stock in his opinions. This is the same ******* who hired Burton out of pure nepotism and destroyed our footy department. If Roo had even a shred of integrity, he would have resigned but he's now part of the same culture of mediocrity that has contributed to us not winning a flag in 20 years.
Yeah, you know best right. One of the most elite players the club and the game has ever had won't have accurate opinions on players? .... Please. Get a grip. His appointment of Burton has nothing to do with how well he can assess players and their attitude. Burton was a mistake. Build a bridge in the end the club is going to be better of having a culture clean out that was sh*t for nearly a decade before roo got their.

Make no mistake, roo is the key architect as to where we are now over the last 18 months. If you exclude the ladder position you have to say we have a massive upside and this is the clean out all the fans wanted. He has finally cleaned out all of Triggs sh*t. Trigg is the one who monumentally screwed the club into only caring about the corporate dollar.

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SaltPeter

"I’m a professional bullshitter"
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Jan 6, 2018
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Yup. I wouldn't be suprised either if on the back of the camp we changed up our draft interviews to be more cutting and resilience based. Roo is especially brutal on some players and I think Greenwood is clearly on Roos sh*t list. Probably why he didn't even give Nicks a say on the trades.

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Duhhhhh lol

Tell me when it clicks

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How would you like me, or anyone else for that matter, to interpret that post?
 

Mr_Moogle

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Yeah, you know best right. One of the most elite players the club and the game has ever had won't have accurate opinions on players? .... Please. Get a grip. His appointment of Burton has nothing to do with how well he can assess players and their attitude. Burton was a mistake. Build a bridge in the end the club is going to be better of having a culture clean out that was sh*t for nearly a decade before roo got their.

Make no mistake, roo is the key architect as to where we are now over the last 18 months. If you exclude the ladder position you have to say we have a massive upside and this is the clean out all the fans wanted. He has finally cleaned out all of Triggs sh*t. Trigg is the one who monumentally screwed the club into only caring about the corporate dollar.

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You telling me to build a bridge while at the same time complaining about Trigg is pretty hilarious. If you think the club is any less corporate under Roo, you're just plain deluded. I guess this is the sort of stupid bullshit I can expect from a guy who wanted Sholl dropped for the Carlton game.

I swear there is some kind of affliction going around where fanboys are completely incapable of compartmentalising a persons playing career vs their post playing career. Roo was a champion player but playing and administrating are two completely different skill-sets. Why is this so hard for people to understand? We don't need Roo for talent identification anyway. We have professionals for that. Roo should stick to what he's good at, mumbling incoherently in the media.
 

adelaidecrows

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You telling me to build a bridge while at the same time complaining about Trigg is pretty hilarious. If you think the club is any less corporate under Roo, you're just plain deluded. I guess this is the sort of stupid bullshit I can expect from a guy who wanted Sholl dropped for the Carlton game.

I swear there is some kind of affliction going around where fanboys are completely incapable of compartmentalising a persons playing career vs their post playing career. Roo was a champion player but playing and administrating are two completely different skill-sets. Why is this so hard for people to understand? We don't need Roo for talent identification anyway. We have professionals for that. Roo should stick to what he's good at, mumbling incoherently in the media.
I never said roo was perfect and clubs always need to be corporate. I never said it's not. But there is a better balance now. All the players who left during triggs time all said it didn't feel like a club just a corporate entity. It's what Walsh and Roo tried to bring back.

LOL at your Sholl comments. Did I say dropped? Read man.

Nothing wrong with being critical and demanding change but part of the process is seeing the bigger picture for what it is. Not calling us fan boys because I disagree with you. You didn't even acknowledge half my key points. I'm just a fan boy is your easy write off. I've brought up several key positives that have been a win this year or are they all bad?

Hypothetically if the camp never happened and roo appointed someone other than Burton I can tell you what would happen.

Hamill, Sholl, Shoenberg, Keays, Butts, Himmelberg, McAdam and Stengle would most likely have either never played this year or only played a few. We would still be arguing about mediocrity and playing a slow dad's army team because our club always had to play finals and never dare bottom out. Jenkins would likely still be up forward with Betts and we'd be drafting yet another pick 9 to 14.



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rocket18

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The rumours persist because the media makes money selling the "Crows = bad" narrative in Victoria. It's a handy diversion too because they can make that coin without actually scutinising the club in a way that might bring about meaningful change.

The camp was bad btw. Its only a question of how bad. Even if you completely remove the rumours about a fractured the playing group, the performances we dished up in 2018 and the injury plague can only lead me to believe the camp was at best, completely ineffective.
Interesting, we started 2018 with 5w - 2l and in round 8 we went down to Port Powah by 5 points.

If the camp f’ed us up so much wouldn't it been evident at the start of the season?

I think our collapse was about fitness/injuries, (we had a similar bad run with injuries in 2017 but it was to our 25-40 players, not our 1-15 players) then the camp became a lightening rod for the disgruntled players feeding the lazy media "OMG, they did what to you?"

Never seen such a beat up about nothing, it was camp to test your mental resolve, it was meant to be confronting ffs.
 

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Mr_Moogle

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LOL at your Sholl comments. Did I say dropped? Read man.
You had both Schoenberg and Sholl in your outs and were rightly called out on it by multiple people.

Nothing wrong with being critical and demanding change but part of the process is seeing the bigger picture for what it is. Not calling us fan boys because I disagree with you. You didn't even acknowledge half my key points. I'm just a fan boy is your easy write off. I've brought up several key positives that have been a win this year or are they all bad?

Hypothetically if the camp never happened and roo appointed someone other than Burton I can tell you what would happen.

Hamill, Sholl, Shoenberg, Keays, Butts, Himmelberg, McAdam and Stengle would most likely have either never played this year or only played a few. We would still be arguing about mediocrity and playing a slow dad's army team because our club always had to play finals and never dare bottom out. Jenkins would likely still be up forward with Betts and we'd be drafting yet another pick 9 to 14.
So I guess Roo going on radio at the end of 2019 and telling fed up supporters to go and barrack for another team which culminated in public outrage and a subsequent review of the footy department, was all just part of his master plan.

If Roo had his way, Pyke and Burton would still be running the show. The only reason we got a review at all was because a shitload of irate supporters contacted the club and threatened to walk. The golden goose threatened to fly away and the board collectively shat their pants.
 

Mr_Moogle

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Interesting, we started 2018 with 5w - 2l and in round 8 we went down to Port Powah by 5 points.

If the camp f’ed us up so much wouldn't it been evident at the start of the season?

I think our collapse was about fitness/injuries, (we had a similar bad run with injuries in 2017 but it was to our 25-40 players, not our 1-15 players) then the camp became a lightening rod for the disgruntled players feeding the lazy media "OMG, they did what to you?"

Never seen such a beat up about nothing, it was camp to test your mental resolve, it was meant to be confronting ffs.
As I said, you don't need to go into the CM stuff to realise at best the camp was completely ineffective. We weren't fit enough for properly conditioned for the 2018 season. That makes the entire pre-season a massive fail.
 

rocket18

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Yeah, you know best right. One of the most elite players the club and the game has ever had won't have accurate opinions on players? .... Please. Get a grip. His appointment of Burton has nothing to do with how well he can assess players and their attitude. Burton was a mistake. Build a bridge in the end the club is going to be better of having a culture clean out that was sh*t for nearly a decade before roo got their.

Make no mistake, roo is the key architect as to where we are now over the last 18 months. If you exclude the ladder position you have to say we have a massive upside and this is the clean out all the fans wanted. He has finally cleaned out all of Triggs sh*t. Trigg is the one who monumentally screwed the club into only caring about the corporate dollar.

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Couldn't get a much more irrelevant "skill" for his current position. And no just because he was an elite player doesn't automatically make him a drafting guru/talent id specialist/psychologist etc

Who give two hoots how good Roo was as a player in his current role, it means diddlysquat. Would much prefer he has the skill to identify the right person for the position - which clearly he has no idea, great player though :rolleyes:
 

adelaidecrows

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Interesting, we started 2018 with 5w - 2l and in round 8 we went down to Port Powah by 5 points.

If the camp f’ed us up so much wouldn't it been evident at the start of the season?

I think our collapse was about fitness/injuries, (we had a similar bad run with injuries in 2017 but it was to our 25-40 players, not our 1-15 players) then the camp became a lightening rod for the disgruntled players feeding the lazy media "OMG, they did what to you?"

Never seen such a beat up about nothing, it was camp to test your mental resolve, it was meant to be confronting ffs.
That is a good point however I do think as the season derailed we fell into alot of bitter infighting in the playing group. Apparently it became very factional and alot came from disgruntled players from the camp. But yes the camp wasn't as bad as what was made out.

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adelaidecrows

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You had both Schoenberg and Sholl in your outs and were rightly called out on it by multiple people.


So I guess Roo going on radio at the end of 2019 and telling fed up supporters to go and barrack for another team which culminated in public outrage and a subsequent review of the footy department, was all just part of his master plan.

If Roo had his way, Pyke and Burton would still be running the show. The only reason we got a review at all was because a shitload of irate supporters contacted the club and threatened to walk. The golden goose threatened to fly away and the board collectively shat their pants.
Managed man. Never once said for form. But you aren't the only one who always assumes the worst.

Again you ignore my points and just pump your anti roo rhetoric.

It's funny, everyone wanted cultural change and a new beginning to break the era of mediocrity, yet are upset it actually happened while yet happy it is happening. Makes no sense right. Now with great list management we are building a great list of youngsters and have a huge bank of top draft picks that are about to add another crop of 5-6 top draftees including pick 1. How can you be anything but excited for what's to come.

Let's move on. Too many positives to argue about our perception of roo which no doubt falls in the middle of both our views.

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SaltPeter

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#facepalm don't know why you comment if that's all you can bring to the table.

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OK - off of the top of my head lets start with:
  • Don Pyke resigned - around 2 weeks after the end of the H&A season (mid-September from memory). Up until that point in time Fagan reported the club wanted him to stay
  • Most clubs sack their senior coaches prior to the end of the season, or at least know they won't be renewing their contracts before the end of the season, hence placing them in a position to start a process to identify and employ a new coach before the trade and draft periods
  • The club had just commenced 'The Review' of the football department - this resulted in the sacking of Burton and Camporeale
  • The club acknowledged delays in the process to the recruitment of the new coach due to their desire to receive and process the reports from various parties of the review
  • Potential suitors for the new coaching role were in many cases still working as assistants at clubs playing finals and weren't available to be interviewed
  • Senior people at the club were also distracted with work around the trade period
  • With axing of Burton and Camporeale the club was also searching for a GM of Football and rearranging the entire coaching panel with few assistants available due to the late search
  • The trade period started in the first week of October and finished a couple of days after Nicks appointment
I keep remembering the saying 'if the tin foil cap fits, wear it'
 

Mr_Moogle

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That is a good point however I do think as the season derailed we fell into alot of bitter infighting in the playing group. Apparently it became very factional and alot came from disgruntled players from the camp. But yes the camp wasn't as bad as what was made out.

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I mean the whole point of preseason camp is to get fit and get all the players on the same page. Even if we didn't tie any players to trees naked, the camp still failed miserably.
Managed man. Never once said for form. But you aren't the only one who always assumes the worst.

Again you ignore my points and just pump your anti roo rhetoric.

It's funny, everyone wanted cultural change and a new beginning to break the era of mediocrity, yet are upset it actually happened while yet happy it is happening. Makes no sense right. Now with great list management we are building a great list of youngsters and have a huge bank of top draft picks that are about to add another crop of 5-6 top draftees including pick 1. How can you be anything but excited for what's to come.

Let's move on. Too many positives to argue about our perception of roo which no doubt falls in the middle of both our views.

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Sholl wasnt showing signs of tiring out so calling for him to be managed makes just as little sense.

I feel pretty good about where the club is at compared to this time last year. I just get frustrated when people try to cast the last 3 years as some kind of "playing the long game" master stroke when it was actually just rank incompetence. They were in denial in 2018 and 2019 and I would argue the club was still showing signs of denial under Nicks but the North game seems to have finally stamped this out completely. I maintain the rebuild truly started that day.
 

adelaidecrows

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OK - off of the top of my head lets start with:
  • Don Pyke resigned - around 2 weeks after the end of the H&A season (mid-September from memory). Up until that point in time Fagan reported the club wanted him to stay
  • Most clubs sack their senior coaches prior to the end of the season, or at least know they won't be renewing their contracts before the end of the season, hence placing them in a position to start a process to identify and employ a new coach before the trade and draft periods
  • The club had just commenced 'The Review' of the football department - this resulted in the sacking of Burton and Camporeale
  • The club acknowledged delays in the process to the recruitment of the new coach due to their desire to receive and process the reports from various parties of the review
  • Potential suitors for the new coaching role were in many cases still working as assistants at clubs playing finals and weren't available to be interviewed
  • Senior people at the club were also distracted with work around the trade period
  • With axing of Burton and Camporeale the club was also searching for a GM of Football and rearranging the entire coaching panel with few assistants available due to the late search
  • The trade period started in the first week of October and finished a couple of days after Nicks appointment
I keep remembering the saying 'if the tin foil cap fits, wear it'
All points you bring up are relevant and that's a good thoughtful write up. Yes the trade period occurred at a bad time. But my point is still valid and not a conspiracy theory. It's not the fact players were traded and delisted without a coaches input its the specific players who were traded and delisted that many heavily critiqued our club for letting go. I believe alot of these were specifically targeted as instigators to our poor player culture. Pyke himself probably played a huge part in recognizing these players. It's no surprise our player culture seems alot better. It's either a massive coincidence the playing group is united again or the bad seeds were weeded out.



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SaltPeter

"I’m a professional bullshitter"
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All points you bring up are relevant and that's a good thoughtful write up. Yes the trade period occurred at a bad time. But my point is still valid and not a conspiracy theory. It's not the fact players were traded and delisted without a coaches input its the specific players who were traded and delisted that many heavily critiqued our club for letting go. I believe alot of these were specifically targeted as instigators to our poor player culture. Pyke himself probably played a huge part in recognizing these players. It's no surprise our player culture seems alot better. It's either a massive coincidence the playing group is united again or the bad seeds were weeded out.



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From my perspective, Jenkins was only player that seemed to be actively performance managed out the door.

All of the others seemed like decisions purely made on the basis of list management
 

adelaidecrows

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I mean the whole point of preseason camp is to get fit and get all the players on the same page. Even if we didn't tie any players to trees naked, the camp still failed miserably.

Sholl wasnt showing signs of tiring out so calling for him to be managed makes just as little sense.

I feel pretty good about where the club is at compared to this time last year. I just get frustrated when people try to cast the last 3 years as some kind of "playing the long game" master stroke when it was actually just rank incompetence. They were in denial in 2018 and 2019 and I would argue the club was still showing signs of denial under Nicks but the North game seems to have finally stamped this out completely. I maintain the rebuild truly started that day.
My point of long game more revolved around list management which unless carefully managed can seriously bite very quickly and become a Carltonesque disaster. I think aside from the dead wood being removed this off season our list management has been pretty good and we'll thought out even under duress and pressure.

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