Campbell B&F

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Originally posted by moomba
In my opinion, the fact that Campbell will go down in history as one of Richmonds most decorated players is a sad indictment on the club.

Moomba

I agree.

Jack Dyer must wonder WTF is going on down there. Campbell had a good year I suppose, but crikey. As a captain he makes a good onballer.
 
There is a thread on the Richmond board about this.

To the Campbell baggers, is he really THAT bad? Yeah I agree whole heatedly there have been much better players at this club. Not all lucky enough to receive B&F awards but many of those players were around the same time so could not all receive the honour.
 
Originally posted by moomba


You're happy to have Wayne Campbell as a four time b&f at your club?

Moomba

Dunno about happy, but I will accept it. It aint exactly news that Richmond had a very poor season and that winning such an accolade during that time would hardly compare with being awarded the B&F in a premiership year. But either way he has been generally consistent and tried his heart out for the duration and certainly deserves it.

Yes, he won one less, but Matthew Larkin picked up 3 at North and he would have to rate among the most useless club captains of all time. Geez, when you finally gave him the flick he only lasted one season at VFA level before being given his marching orders.

But of course you have a serial sex offender co-leading your B&F count...and no, I don't mean Barry Cable.
 
Originally posted by sandeano
Yes, he won one less, but Matthew Larkin picked up 3 at North and he would have to rate among the most useless club captains of all time.

Nothing wrong with Matty Larkin. I'd take three of his b&f years over four of Campbells anyday.

But of course you have a serial sex offender co-leading your B&F count...and no, I don't mean Barry Cable.

Do we. Maybe you should check your records. And if you are referring to who I think you are referring to, not only is is not co-leading our B&F count, but I wasn't aware that having an extra marital affair was an offence.

Besides, no need to be so sensitive, if you are happy with Wayne Campbell as a 4 time B&F of your club then you shouldn't be bothered by other peoples opinions.

Moomba

PS - For what it's worth I'll never be ashamed that Wayne Carey played for and was a three time B&F of my footy club. I am more than happy to reflect on the Carey years and the successes it brought. I hope you are equally happy reflecting on the Campbell years and the Richmond successes that came with it.
 

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Originally posted by moomba


Nothing wrong with Matty Larkin. I'd take three of his b&f years over four of Campbells anyday.



Larkin was slower than the Bundoora Tram running through Smith Street during peak hour. And believe me, that's slow.

Do we. Maybe you should check your records. And if you are referring to who I think you are referring to, not only is is not co-leading our B&F count, but I wasn't aware that having an extra marital affair was an offence.



According to the Roos' website...

MOST BEST AND FAIRESTS

4 Noel Teasdale (1963, 1964, 1965, 1966)
4 David Dench (1971, 1976, 1977, 1981)
4 Wayne Carey (1992, 1993, 1996, 1998)
3 Les Foote (1945, 1949, 1950)
3 Allen Aylett (1958, 1959, 1960)
3 Matthew Larkin (1985, 1987, 1988)

My apologies....for some silly reason I thought having the same number of B&Fs as two other players meant you were "co-leading". My mistake. I learn something new everyday. Okay, I stand corrected, he is not a 'serial' sex offender, but was once found guilty of going the big grab and later made left a lot of fans disillusioned, due to his rampant libido.

Besides, no need to be so sensitive, if you are happy with Wayne Campbell as a 4 time B&F of your club then you shouldn't be bothered by other peoples opinions.

Moomba

PS - For what it's worth I'll never be ashamed that Wayne Carey played for and was a three time B&F of my footy club. I am more than happy to reflect on the Carey years and the successes it brought. I hope you are equally happy reflecting on the Campbell years and the Richmond successes that came with it.

I'll tolerate a guy who has given his best during his time and will be remembered never among the Tige greats, but if at all, as a decent, hardworking player during a lean time. Conversely Carey will ALWAYS be first remembered as THAT footballer who had THAT affair flushed down the toilet all that 'Shinerboner spirit, stick by your mates during the hard times, love of the jumper, club comes first' crap.

Actually, in decades to come the only point that will need clarification will be whether it was Carey or Pagan thqat first sold that ethos down the drain. Then someone will check the records and see that it was Carey first, pagan a few months later.
 
Originally posted by sandeano
Larkin was slower than the Bundoora Tram running through Smith Street during peak hour. And believe me, that's slow.

He probably appeared a lot slower than Campbell because he actually stopped to get the ball once every now and then. Pretty easy to look pacy when you are skirting the packs for 95% of your football career.

According to the Roos' website...

MOST BEST AND FAIRESTS

4 Noel Teasdale (1963, 1964, 1965, 1966)
4 David Dench (1971, 1976, 1977, 1981)
4 Wayne Carey (1992, 1993, 1996, 1998)
3 Les Foote (1945, 1949, 1950)
3 Allen Aylett (1958, 1959, 1960)
3 Matthew Larkin (1985, 1987, 1988)

My apologies....for some silly reason I thought having the same number of B&Fs as two other players meant you were "co-leading". My mistake. I learn something new everyday.

You are of course correct, and I apologise. The same website lists Anthony Stevens as the 1998 winner when he was in fact runner up. Good of you to take the time to check for me.

Okay, I stand corrected, he is not a 'serial' sex offender, but was once found guilty of going the big grab and later made left a lot of fans disillusioned, due to his rampant libido.

Such is life. I am sure if there was a competition for good honest decent humanitarians Richmond would win each year. I have a greater interest in the football that our players play, not what they do in their own private lives.

I'll tolerate a guy who has given his best during his time and will be remembered never among the Tige greats, but if at all, as a decent, hardworking player during a lean time.

I am very happy for you.

Conversely Carey will ALWAYS be first remembered as THAT footballer who had THAT affair flushed down the toilet all that 'Shinerboner spirit, stick by your mates during the hard times, love of the jumper, club comes first' crap.

I choose to remember the great things that Wayne Carey did for the club. The premierships, the night premierships, the "four" best and fairests, the many games won off his own boot. By the way the rest of the stuff was there before Carey and as shown this year it will be there long after Carey. You never know, if someone showed a bit of pride in the Tiges jumper in the last 20 years you may be able to throw a football related comeback to me.

Actually, in decades to come the only point that will need clarification will be whether it was Carey or Pagan thqat first sold that ethos down the drain. Then someone will check the records and see that it was Carey first, pagan a few months later.

Oooh, catty. Just for clarification are you talking about the same Carey that Clinton Casey put on the silver service for, so he could become a Tiger. Interesting that out of all this only one of our clubs actually wanted Carey to play for them knowing what he had done.

Good also to know that you're only comeback for what was an innocently made post on the footballing merits of one of your players is to bring up non-football matters. Larkin was a start, but it all went downhill from there.

Moomba
 
Campbell - 1st
Richardson - 2nd
A second year player who only played half the season - 3rd

Wow, it's hard to believe Richmond had such a bad year with results like this.
 
Originally posted by noodle


definatly the best player for the tigers this year.

Put simply, that's what it boils down to in the end. People can bag Campbell (and they will) all they like, but he was clearly Richmond's best player in a dismal season, one of the few senior players at the club not to fall by the wayside as the pressure increased.

Undoubted highlights were his matchwinning final quarters against Melbourne (Round 3) and West Coast (Round 8).
 
Originally posted by moomba


He probably appeared a lot slower than Campbell because he actually stopped to get the ball once every now and then. Pretty easy to look pacy when you are skirting the packs for 95% of your football career.



You are of course correct, and I apologise. The same website lists Anthony Stevens as the 1998 winner when he was in fact runner up. Good of you to take the time to check for me.



Such is life. I am sure if there was a competition for good honest decent humanitarians Richmond would win each year. I have a greater interest in the football that our players play, not what they do in their own private lives.



I am very happy for you.



I choose to remember the great things that Wayne Carey did for the club. The premierships, the night premierships, the "four" best and fairests, the many games won off his own boot. By the way the rest of the stuff was there before Carey and as shown this year it will be there long after Carey. You never know, if someone showed a bit of pride in the Tiges jumper in the last 20 years you may be able to throw a football related comeback to me.



Oooh, catty. Just for clarification are you talking about the same Carey that Clinton Casey put on the silver service for, so he could become a Tiger. Interesting that out of all this only one of our clubs actually wanted Carey to play for them knowing what he had done.

Good also to know that you're only comeback for what was an innocently made post on the footballing merits of one of your players is to bring up non-football matters. Larkin was a start, but it all went downhill from there.

Moomba


Oh, dear....in the spirit you name implies, I was simply trying to "get together and have fun". Y'see unlike Malcolm Blight in that game against Richmond 20-odd years ago, when he was alone in the square, missed the goal and got the behind, you managed to miss the point altogether.

Allow me, if I may, to take us way back in time to the very first point you made on the subject....

In my opinion, the fact that Campbell will go down in history as one of Richmonds most decorated players is a sad indictment on the club.

Okay, now I may be wrong (and I apologise if I am) but what I took from that comment was the word "history". I imagined, in say 100 years, a young Tiger fan reading about the club's history and seeing that Wayne Campbell won (at least) four B&Fs. The tyke will probably be curious, do a little research and see that said player was a decent midfielder who was a leading player (and captain) during a pretty dreary period at Tigerland (just prior to the dynasty of 10 back-to-back flags from 2005-2015 ;) )

And he'd think fair enough, every club has a drought and some 'stars' of that time would not cut the mustard in glory periods. No shame in that for the player and no shame for the club.

Now here is where the distinction lies....

It IS a sad indictment that Wayne Campbell has won 4 B&Fs during the last decade - sad that he is the best calibre player Richmond can produce. In other words it tells us what we all know - that the Tigers, during Campbell's time, have been mostly crap.

In HISTORY that is NOT a sad indictment on the club. In other words, it is akin to saying that a if you had multiple winner during the Roos early, lean years (who would not have been a worthy winner during your golden times) would mean that in HISTORY, it would reflect sdly upon your club.

Every club has a bad time and during that time somebody has to win the award. It is all relative and because it just may be not be a regarded champion should not reflect badly upon the club overall.

More than likely I did a poor job of articulating my thoughts. But I hope you get my drift.
 
Originally posted by sandeano
More than likely I did a poor job of articulating my thoughts. But I hope you get my drift.

I actually think we are on a fairly similair wavelength, and I too could have articulated my thoughts a touch better.

In my opinion, the fact that Campbell will go down in history as one of Richmonds most decorated players is a sad indictment of club in recent times.

is probably a better way of putting it.

Just as the fact that Francis Bourke won only 1 B&F at Richmond is a credit to the strength of the club in the 60's and 70's, the fact that Campbell has managed a top 3 placing in 8 of his 12 years tells a bit of a tale about the strength of your club during that period.

When your young Tiger goes through his history books he will see that one of your greatest individual players in history (going by B&F's) is Wayne Campbell, and IMO there would be well over a hundred players in your history more deserving.

Moomba
 
Originally posted by moomba



When your young Tiger goes through his history books he will see that one of your greatest individual players in history (going by B&F's) is Wayne Campbell, and IMO there would be well over a hundred players in your history more deserving.

Moomba

Yep...could not agree more.

Out of curiousity (and because I'm too lazy to check) how many B&Fs did Schimma win at North?
 
Originally posted by wagstaff


0

Well, if that is the case I think we can see that such an accolade can often be an unreliable indicator of a player's quality (when one reads a club's history in years to come).
 
Fair point, and quite surprising he didn't win several given his standing within the club.

Campbell can consider himself lucky he didn't end up traded to North a couple of years ago. If he found himself with a Syd Barker that Schimma never won some homicidal tendencies may come out in at least one BigFooty poster. ;)

Moomba
 
Originally posted by sandeano


Well, if that is the case I think we can see that such an accolade can often be an unreliable indicator of a player's quality (when one reads a club's history in years to come).

With all-time greats like Kym Hodgeman winning B & F's, no wonder Schimma wasn't able to win one.
 

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