Competition Can-Am Premiership 2017 - Season Discussion Thread - Postseason

[Craegus]

why are you like this?

But hey, just go ahead and disqualify teams that double vote for all I care. Might give you a chance of winning something, mate.

There is absolutely no reason why every game needs to have the same amount of votes.

Does anyone else think this is an issue?

The following may not be directly in response to all the above quoted points but they all fall into the same category. It is going to be a long response so deal with it and don't bother with the typical TLR responses, especially a few in particular who are serial offenders at doing this.

Why? WHY? Because I want to run a competition that is fair to everyone where people actually do the right thing and not complain at every little thing and every result is actually decided by people voting the way they should vote rather than changing results (which now has happened) by using a vote that not everyone has to vote for two teams causing a false result. Maybe it is my studies that have included statistics and polling that makes me so critical about this but doing something that is not possible for all who decide to vote causes results to not follow along with all others and can cause results to not meet the actual feelings of the group. This was seen this week with Chicago and Vancouver which should have ended either 8-10 or 9-9 but ended 9-10 because of a single double vote and as I said in the poll thread, the Can-Am has been close in previous years and a single result like this could cost a team a finals spot because of it which I did not want to see happen. And no not every game HAS to have the same number of votes, but logic states that when you are asked to vote in EVERY game (apart from your own) then the number of votes should be the same if everyone who competes votes for every game but their own and everyone else votes in every game.

But apparently again there are only a couple of people on this board who can run competitions where their decisions are not questioned or argued against in every little way, unlike every time I try and make this competition as fair and equitable as possible and give everyone the best opportunity of success. Instead I am questioned and have people attack my choices (even when I have open up the changes and choices to peoples votes and it has been decided that way) as if I have a personal motive to make the competition biased or unfair or too restrictive or any number of other issues.

All I have asked is that people just don't vote multiple times on a poll, it is exactly the same as asking for you to not vote for yourself. But again because I have made this request it is being argued to the point where I really feel like I should just give up on trying, because even though I have never, and I mean NEVER, done anything that is in anyway for myself, and has only ever been for the benefit of the board and the fairness of competitions, I am questioned about every little thing that I say and do. Even to the point of a snide remarks about me winning the comp by forcing people out of the competition which wasn't going to happen anyway.

Now this may be an overreaction to a smart arsed remark, but on that particular point, that is the lowest form of attack in my view Freight Train, and I am seriously close to getting myself carded replying to your comment because you have gone for a low blow and a personal attack which I DO NOT stand for, EVER. I never singled you out as the person who voted twice, people could go and work that out if they wanted to, but I never went out to deliberately single you out, but apparently with your response you think that.

I always want to compete on the fairest level with people, AND I MEAN ALWAYS, you may have not been around here long enough to know this or have seen it, but since 2008 when I joined this board I have tried to hold myself to the highest level of fairness, while respecting my fellow designers and have competed on the premise of trying to do my best without ever undermining others, unless it was done in a knowing way to make fun with rivalries. Andonis1997 and El_Scorcho I am sure can both attest to this as I have contacted them through PM in the past about setting up little jabs at each other and because of this we know we can do this without hurting the other person as it is all done in good fun, also if I may have without knowing slightly overstepped by accident to apologise for doing so without their knowing what I was going to do.

And if that doesn't point to how fair I want to be, maybe look back at the Designathon that I introduced and ran to great success. A competition where you had to use a highly used template (not a personal one that only a single person used) on the board (if it was a uniform being designed) and you could not use your own personal number or present your design with any personalisation to give away who designed the entry. It was and still is the fairest competition ever run on this board, so DO NOT ever make statements about me going to the point of disqualifying someone just so I might have a chance at winning, because I would never go to those lengths, if I win something it is because I deserved it, and not for any other reason.

So again something small has caused an issue during the Can-Am. Sometimes I really wonder why I even bother running this competition sometimes.

 

[Barrybran]

Honestly craegus, if this is the biggest thing worrying you in life right now, you're doing well. Let it slide, mate. You're working yourself up over nothing. I've voted once in games and I've not voted in games. Whether you agree or not, sometimes there are games where I think "these are equally good/s**t" and choose not to award any votes because I don't think it is fair on either side to vote for the sake of voting. I have a spare vote up my sleeve because I can't vote for myself so maybe I should vote twice in those games so both parties get a point.

This issue applies to every competition on this board and while I've only been here a short time compared to most, I've yet to see an issue with it.

 

[Freight Train]

The following may not be directly in response to all the above quoted points but they all fall into the same category. It is going to be a long response so deal with it and don't bother with the typical TLR responses, especially a few in particular who are serial offenders at doing this.

Why? WHY? Because I want to run a competition that is fair to everyone where people actually do the right thing and not complain at every little thing and every result is actually decided by people voting the way they should vote rather than changing results (which now has happened) by using a vote that not everyone has to vote for two teams causing a false result. Maybe it is my studies that have included statistics and polling that makes me so critical about this but doing something that is not possible for all who decide to vote causes results to not follow along with all others and can cause results to not meet the actual feelings of the group. This was seen this week with Chicago and Vancouver which should have ended either 8-10 or 9-9 but ended 9-10 because of a single double vote and as I said in the poll thread, the Can-Am has been close in previous years and a single result like this could cost a team a finals spot because of it which I did not want to see happen. And no not every game HAS to have the same number of votes, but logic states that when you are asked to vote in EVERY game (apart from your own) then the number of votes should be the same if everyone who competes votes for every game but their own and everyone else votes in every game.

But apparently again there are only a couple of people on this board who can run competitions where their decisions are not questioned or argued against in every little way, unlike every time I try and make this competition as fair and equitable as possible and give everyone the best opportunity of success. Instead I am questioned and have people attack my choices (even when I have open up the changes and choices to peoples votes and it has been decided that way) as if I have a personal motive to make the competition biased or unfair or too restrictive or any number of other issues.

All I have asked is that people just don't vote multiple times on a poll, it is exactly the same as asking for you to not vote for yourself. But again because I have made this request it is being argued to the point where I really feel like I should just give up on trying, because even though I have never, and I mean NEVER, done anything that is in anyway for myself, and has only ever been for the benefit of the board and the fairness of competitions, I am questioned about every little thing that I say and do. Even to the point of a snide remarks about me winning the comp by forcing people out of the competition which wasn't going to happen anyway.

Now this may be an overreaction to a smart arsed remark, but on that particular point, that is the lowest form of attack in my view Freight Train, and I am seriously close to getting myself carded replying to your comment because you have gone for a low blow and a personal attack which I DO NOT stand for, EVER. I never singled you out as the person who voted twice, people could go and work that out if they wanted to, but I never went out to deliberately single you out, but apparently with your response you think that.

I always want to compete on the fairest level with people, AND I MEAN ALWAYS, you may have not been around here long enough to know this or have seen it, but since 2008 when I joined this board I have tried to hold myself to the highest level of fairness, while respecting my fellow designers and have competed on the premise of trying to do my best without ever undermining others, unless it was done in a knowing way to make fun with rivalries. Andonis1997 and El_Scorcho I am sure can both attest to this as I have contacted them through PM in the past about setting up little jabs at each other and because of this we know we can do this without hurting the other person as it is all done in good fun, also if I may have without knowing slightly overstepped by accident to apologise for doing so without their knowing what I was going to do.

And if that doesn't point to how fair I want to be, maybe look back at the Designathon that I introduced and ran to great success. A competition where you had to use a highly used template (not a personal one that only a single person used) on the board (if it was a uniform being designed) and you could not use your own personal number or present your design with any personalisation to give away who designed the entry. It was and still is the fairest competition ever run on this board, so DO NOT ever make statements about me going to the point of disqualifying someone just so I might have a chance at winning, because I would never go to those lengths, if I win something it is because I deserved it, and not for any other reason.

So again something small has caused an issue during the Can-Am. Sometimes I really wonder why I even bother running this competition sometimes.

this is not srs bsns.

This is an obscure hobbyist design board. Where we play for nothing but bragging rights. There are bigger things to worry about in the world in 2017, such as the rising price of meat pies at the footy, or global warming.

 

[Craegus]

Honestly craegus, if this is the biggest thing worrying you in life right now, you're doing well. Let it slide, mate. You're working yourself up over nothing. I've voted once in games and I've not voted in games. Whether you agree or not, sometimes there are games where I think "these are equally good/s**t" and choose not to award any votes because I don't think it is fair on either side to vote for the sake of voting. I have a spare vote up my sleeve because I can't vote for myself so maybe I should vote twice in those games so both parties get a point.

This issue applies to every competition on this board and while I've only been here a short time compared to most, I've yet to see an issue with it.

The only reason I am getting really annoyed with this is because there are some comments that are becoming personal and I am not going to take that lying down. I have asked for one simple little thing that really could be agreed upon or discussed reasonably and people have blown it up as if I am trying to turn the board upside down.

The main problem with this is that it is impossible to change voting rules to make it so that people can only vote in relevant sections (so if you were competing you would only have 8 votes, for all games but your own, and those not competing would have 9 for all games). Back before this board had actual polls you had to vote in replies and no-one was able to use extra votes as they never existed and there wasn't an issue. But I guess league comps really didn't exist back then so it never became an issue.

this is not srs bsns.

This is an obscure hobbyist design board. Where we play for nothing but bragging rights. There are bigger things to worry about in the world in 2017, such as the rising price of meat pies at the footy, or global warming.

And yet you take it to the point of making it personal. That is crossing the line and I do not take that lightly, even if this is a casual board. You can try and turn your comment into being a bit of light banter, but it was not even close to being that, you singled me out and said that I would benefit myself over everyone else. It was not light banter, it was a personal attack.


---------------------------------------

Look I will let the double voting thing lie, but if people happen to lose games or miss out on finals spots or because of it then don't complain about it.

 

[Andonis1997]

Andonis1997 and El_Scorcho I am sure can both attest to this as I have contacted them through PM in the past about setting up little jabs at each other and because of this we know we can do this without hurting the other person as it is all done in good fun, also if I may have without knowing slightly overstepped by accident to apologise for doing so without their knowing what I was going to do.

I saw all of NAFL's happenings in a lighthearted manner, so no need for apologies to me

 

[Craegus]

I saw all of NAFL's happenings in a lighthearted manner, so no need for apologies to me

Yeah but I'm sure I did anyway with part of the Sharks/Makos bit (the early stuff).

 

[Andonis1997]

Yeah but I'm sure I did anyway with part of the Sharks/Makos bit (the early stuff).

It's cool, I understood your argument! Considering that name was one of my secondary bids while you were still the Whales, I still thought I was entitled to a better deal, hehehe.. Anyway, I've got thick skin, so it was fine. Even if you did, I had the last laugh by finishing above you

 

[Craegus]

It's cool, I understood your argument! Considering that name was one of my secondary bids while you were still the Whales, I still thought I was entitled to a better deal, hehehe.. Anyway, I've got thick skin, so it was fine. Even if you did, I had the last laugh by finishing above you

Wouldn't the last laugh be that my team still exists?

 

[Andonis1997]

Wouldn't the last laugh be that my team still exists?

Mine exists.

In here.

 

[Freight Train]

The only reason I am getting really annoyed with this is because there are some comments that are becoming personal and I am not going to take that lying down. I have asked for one simple little thing that really could be agreed upon or discussed reasonably and people have blown it up as if I am trying to turn the board upside down.

The main problem with this is that it is impossible to change voting rules to make it so that people can only vote in relevant sections (so if you were competing you would only have 8 votes, for all games but your own, and those not competing would have 9 for all games). Back before this board had actual polls you had to vote in replies and no-one was able to use extra votes as they never existed and there wasn't an issue. But I guess league comps really didn't exist back then so it never became an issue.



And yet you take it to the point of making it personal. That is crossing the line and I do not take that lightly, even if this is a casual board. You can try and turn your comment into being a bit of light banter, but it was not even close to being that, you singled me out and said that I would benefit myself over everyone else. It was not light banter, it was a personal attack.


---------------------------------------

Look I will let the double voting thing lie, but if people happen to lose games or miss out on finals spots or because of it then don't complain about it.

The only person I've ever seen complaining about the double voting thing is you. Also, you haven't addressed people just not voting in matches which is the exact same thing. But you just wanna single out double voting because for whatever reason it upsets you.

 

[Red Crow]

craegus, I admire your passion and your desire to run a slick, professional comp, but you need to learn not to sweat the small stuff. Of course, in an ideal world, everyone would vote as you've outlined. At the end of the day though, this is really just a bit of fun, and when things get taken way too seriously it sucks all the fun out of it. Voting twice in the same match will have the same effect as someone not voting at all in a particular match. If people genuinely can't split teams then so be it. I'd be extremely surprised if it costs anyone in any major way - I think its pretty fair to say that everybody who has won any comps absolutely deserved it. You say that people shouldn't complain about it, but I can't recall anyone doing so in the past - it was you who brought this up, and people have by and large just said "nah mate, its fine". Its just not an issue worth making such a big fuss over.

Notice for everybody on the topic of personal attacks: There are appropriate channels to follow if you feel people are directing personal attacks or abuse towards you on the board. Use the report function and let the mods deal with it. Back and forth arguments and name calling serve no purpose but to create an unwelcome environment. We're a pretty tight-knit board here and everybody is always pretty respectful of one another, so lets keep it that way.

 

[Craegus]

Updated standings

 

[Craegus]

Updated Standings

 

[Barrybran]

Updated Standings

#westisbest

 

[Freight Train]

were fixtures ever released for this?

 

[Barrybran]

No, because you're a bully

 

[Craegus]

were fixtures ever released for this?

Not the full draw. Just the Inter-Conference games for rounds 1-9 and the groups for rounds 10-14.

I didn't have time to modify my draw file to upload (it includes the image links).

 

[Craegus]

Updated Standings

 

[Craegus]

Updated Standings

 

[El_Scorcho]

Sources out of Indianapolis are saying that the 2015 Can-Am Champion Indiana Bluebirds have submitted a proposal to the league to move the team to New York to fill the void in the Big Apple left when the New York Force folded at the end of the 2016 season.

Indiana owner Elwood R. Scorcho was quote as saying "Indiana was originally a side project for this organisation as a favour to the league, while the main focus was with the San Diego Rush. The long term plan to move on from Indiana was put on hold when the Bluebirds won the pennant in 2015. We'd like to thank the people of Indiana for their support over the past 3 seasons."

 

[Craegus]

Sources out of Indianapolis are saying that the 2015 Can-Am Champion Indiana Bluebirds have submitted a proposal to the league to move the team to New York to fill the void in the Big Apple left when the New York Force folded at the end of the 2016 season.

Indiana owner Elwood R. Scorcho was quote as saying "Indiana was originally a side project for this organisation as a favour to the league, while the main focus was with the San Diego Rush. The long term plan to move on from Indiana was put on hold when the Bluebirds won the pennant in 2015. We'd like to thank the people of Indiana for their support over the past 3 seasons."

The Can-Am Organisation has received this proposal and will consider it before the next season begins*


*I will probably have to be reminded.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Pending approval from the league, bringing Australian Rules Football back to the greatest city in the world in 2018, introducing your New York Turtles!

This identity brings together the New York state reptile, the Snapping Turtle, with the iconic blue and orange synonymous with New York City.

 

[Craegus]

Updated standings

 

[Freight Train]

so like do we get to use alt. designs in this whole special group phase thing?

 

[Craegus]

so like do we get to use alt. designs in this whole special group phase thing?

Yes, all teams who have worn their alt once will wear it once, those who are yet to wear it will wear it twice.