Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[FairKouta]

More quality. A "Like whore" is a paraphrase of what you accused the Richmond poster of being, not what I called you. I can see how the confusion could arise though.

I haven’t called anyone anything that’s your go. All love bro good luck for next year I’m sure we will do this again. Look fw to it.

 

[hk89]

I haven’t called anyone anything that’s your go.

collecting likes from embattled Hawthorn fans must be your kink.

That's what you said to the bloke. If that isn't calling someone a 'like whore' I don't know what is. If you don't agree, then I can also understand why you might think you haven't been a massive troll in this thread.

 

[FairKouta]

That's what you said to the bloke. If that isn't calling someone a 'like whore' I don't know what is. If you don't agree, then I can also understand why you might think you haven't been a massive troll in this thread.

Bro i think I triggered you. I’m gonna stop now

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

I'm still very bullish on the options we have in front of us so I'm excited for next season

Exactly. Hawthorn still has some exciting young talent like Day, O'Brien and Worpel.

 

[HeHateMe]

Exactly. Hawthorn still has some exciting young talent like Day, O'Brien and Worpel.

The playing list is one thing, but I'm more bullish on the coaching and list transition. Like the eagles, these really well run clubs can turn things on its head pretty quickly. Having some strong draft hand and following the next generation of Hawks is exciting for myself.

We have a few pieces already as you said like Will Day but let's see what the club does from here. Never a club to die wondering, trading up to pick 1 for Hodge, Drafting Rough at 2 to secure Franklin at 5, selling the farm for Mitchell, O'Meara and Wingard. I wonder what's next?

 

[GhostofJimJess]

You sure you've selected the right team in your big footy profile champ? Either that or collecting likes from embattled Hawthorn fans must be your kink.

Wow, haven't been "champed" for a while. Classy. You've clearly outed me for my near-20 year subterfuge of following Hawthorn, all the while impersonating a Richmond supporter. To think that all those early years of forlornly digging my toes in that Richie Tambling was indeed a more astute draft pick than Lance Franklin, and that Jarrod-friggin-Oakley-Nicholls was a smarter choice than Cyril Rioli, have now been skillfully exposed.

Seriously, at what point did footy barracking become all or nothing? That me passionately supporting the Tigers meant I couldn't appreciate the state-of-the-art processes implemented by another club. Does my envy of what Hawthorn was and did during that decade or so in the late-00's and early-mid-10's preclude me from being able to recognise their excellence on and off the field? Perhaps in the divisive and self-entitled view of many posters today it does. Or maybe it's just finally being able to bask in the luxury of a couple of flags and gain firsthand experience at having supporters of non-achieving clubs trying desperately to dilute the significance of your success that facilitates a willingness to give credit and respect where it's due.

FWIW, I also believe Carlton are very much on the right track, and ironically I've just won a $50 bet with a Hawk mate of mine that they'd finish above the Hawks in 2020. The Blues have made some monumental stuff-ups over the last decade or two which has prevented them from achieving anything of note, but they seem to have righted the ship. So there's plenty of aspects of contemporary Carlton that I'd defend in a discussion amongst footy grown-ups too.

 

[La Dispute]

To think that all those early years of forlornly digging my toes in that Richie Tambling was indeed a more astute draft pick than Lance Franklin, and that Jarrod-friggin-Oakley-Nicholls was a smarter choice than Cyril Rioli, have now been skillfully exposed.

Oakley-Nicholls was 2005, Cyril 2007.

 

[Sirlemsip]

As has been stated previously Hawthorn typically more travel between hubs, and less actual 'home' games than anyone else this year.
A deeper look at the way Hawthorn's games have been fixtured this year, shows the Hawks have also been worse off than our opponent more often than anyone else - they had shorter breaks than the opponent on 8 occasions, and a longer break only 4 times.
BUT - on two of our 'longer' breaks, the opponent still had at least 8 days rest, so we can consider the longer break irrelevant

R03: Hawks 6 day break vs Tigers 7 day break (MCG)
R04: Hawks 10 day break vs North 8 day break* (Marvel)
R05: Hawks 7 day break vs Giants 9 day break (Giants stad)
R06: Hawks 5 day break vs Pies 7 day break (Giants stad)
R07: Hawks 6 day break vs Demons 5 day break (Giants stad)
R08: Hawks 6 day break vs Sydney 7 day break (SGC)
R09: Hawks 6 day break vs Carlton 6 day break (Optus)
R10: bye
R11: Hawks 10 day break vs Dockers 8 day break* (Optus)
R12: Hawks 6 day break vs Eagles 7 day break (Optus)
R13: Hawks 6 day break vs PA 8 day break (Adelaide oval)
R14: Hawks 5 day break vs Essendon 5 day break (Adelaide oval)
R15: Hawks 5 day break vs Crows 9 day break (Adelaide oval)
R16: Hawks 5 day break vs Saints 8 day break (Metricon)
R17: Hawks 7 day break vs Dogs 7 day break (Metricon)
R18: Hawks 7 day break vs Suns 6 day break (Metricon)

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Oakley-Nicholls was 2005, Cyril 2007.

Yep, so they were. Sorry, I should've googled it, but was probably just using a couple of random names to labour a point.

 

[Foucault1989]

Wow, haven't been "champed" for a while. Classy. You've clearly outed me for my near-20 year subterfuge of following Hawthorn, all the while impersonating a Richmond supporter. To think that all those early years of forlornly digging my toes in that Richie Tambling was indeed a more astute draft pick than Lance Franklin, and that Jarrod-friggin-Oakley-Nicholls was a smarter choice than Cyril Rioli, have now been skillfully exposed.

Seriously, at what point did footy barracking become all or nothing? That me passionately supporting the Tigers meant I couldn't appreciate the state-of-the-art processes implemented by another club. Does my envy of what Hawthorn was and did during that decade or so in the late-00's and early-mid-10's preclude me from being able to recognise their excellence on and off the field? Perhaps in the divisive and self-entitled view of many posters today it does. Or maybe it's just finally being able to bask in the luxury of a couple of flags and gain firsthand experience at having supporters of non-achieving clubs trying desperately to dilute the significance of your success that facilitates a willingness to give credit and respect where it's due.

FWIW, I also believe Carlton are very much on the right track, and ironically I've just won a $50 bet with a Hawk mate of mine that they'd finish above the Hawks in 2020. The Blues have made some monumental stuff-ups over the last decade or two which has prevented them from achieving anything of note, but they seem to have righted the ship. So there's plenty of aspects of contemporary Carlton that I'd defend in a discussion amongst footy grown-ups too.

Loved this response. I was just having a cheeky razz, nothing sinister. Appreciate your objectivity

 

[WWSD]

Exactly. Hawthorn still has some exciting young talent like Day, O'Brien and Worpel.

O’Brien? You can’t be serious!

 

[Hot Diggity]

Everyone has a major flaw which becomes their downfall, and for Clarkson it was his arrogance to nobodys surprise.

Imagine topping up with chronically injured players like Scully, Patton, O Meara etc etc just because they were high draft picks.

Time to retire Alistair.

Don't worry, Alistair knows how hard it is to win that elusive thirteenth premiership.

 

[TylerDurden]

Wow, haven't been "champed" for a while. Classy. You've clearly outed me for my near-20 year subterfuge of following Hawthorn, all the while impersonating a Richmond supporter. To think that all those early years of forlornly digging my toes in that Richie Tambling was indeed a more astute draft pick than Lance Franklin, and that Jarrod-friggin-Oakley-Nicholls was a smarter choice than Cyril Rioli, have now been skillfully exposed.

Seriously, at what point did footy barracking become all or nothing? That me passionately supporting the Tigers meant I couldn't appreciate the state-of-the-art processes implemented by another club. Does my envy of what Hawthorn was and did during that decade or so in the late-00's and early-mid-10's preclude me from being able to recognise their excellence on and off the field? Perhaps in the divisive and self-entitled view of many posters today it does. Or maybe it's just finally being able to bask in the luxury of a couple of flags and gain firsthand experience at having supporters of non-achieving clubs trying desperately to dilute the significance of your success that facilitates a willingness to give credit and respect where it's due.

FWIW, I also believe Carlton are very much on the right track, and ironically I've just won a $50 bet with a Hawk mate of mine that they'd finish above the Hawks in 2020. The Blues have made some monumental stuff-ups over the last decade or two which has prevented them from achieving anything of note, but they seem to have righted the ship. So there's plenty of aspects of contemporary Carlton that I'd defend in a discussion amongst footy grown-ups too.

Spot on. Tall poppy syndrome. A classic Aussie trait. Now you know!!

Plus our IP has been drained. You got Dimma, and Carlton are now enjoying the quality of Andrew Russell. Who was only at Hawthorn for 14 years turning our players into finely tuned machines.

Anyway, that's what happens when you're successful. It's happening to Richmond as we speak.

 

[Freomaniac]

It's an odd thing to say about a premiership team with the fewest players acquired via the National Draft than any other premier of the past 15 years.

Recruited from other clubs + Upgraded rookies

11 - 2014 Hawks: Burgoyne, Gibson, Lake, Gunston, McEvoy, Hale, Spangher, Breust, Puopolo, Suckling, Langford
10 - 2015 Hawks: Burgoyne, Gibson, Lake, Gunston, McEvoy, Hale, Frawley, Breust, Puopolo, Suckling
10 - 2013 Hawks: Burgoyne, Gibson, Lake, Gunston, Hale, Guerra, Simpkin, Breust, Puopolo, Sewell
10 - 2005 Swans: Hall, Schneider, Williams, Davis, Jolly, Ball, Bolton, Kirk, Bevan, Kennelly
10 - 2012 Swans: Kennedy, Shaw, Richards, Mattner, Mumford, Morton, Jack, Grundy, Smith, Pyke
10 - 2019 Tigers: Prestia, Houli, Caddy, Nankervis, Lynch, Lambert, Castagna, Soldo, Baker, Pickett
9 - 2010 Magpies: Ball, Jolly, L.Brown, Maxwell, Toovey, Lumumba, Wellingham, Blair, Macaffer
8 - 2017 Tigers: Prestia, Houli, Caddy, Nankervis, Grigg, Lambert, Castagna, Townsend
8 - 2008 Hawks - Croad, Dew, Guerra, Gilham, Sewell, Osborne, Campbell, Young
7 - 2018 Eagles: Kennedy, Yeo, Jetta, Redden, Cripps, Vardy, McGovern
7 - 2006 Eagles - Chick, Stenglein, Armstrong, Cox, Fletcher, Lynch, B.Jones
7 - 2016 Doggies: T.Boyd, M.Boyd, Morris, Picken, Johanissen, Dahlhaus, Biggs
5 - 2009 Cats: Ottens, Harley, Mooney, Rooke, Byrnes
5 - 2007 Cats: Ottens, Harley, Mooney, Rooke, Byrnes
1 - 2011 Cats: Ottens

I am curious if you can do the list for freos 2013 grand final side. they had guys like de boer, duffield and sandilands in the rookie draft.

 

[Freomaniac]

GWS receive: Clarkson
Hawthorn receive: Giants 2020 + 2021 first round picks.

Clarkson is contracted. If any team wants him they are going to pay a hefty price.

Giants traded their 2020 1st rounder to the crows

 

[Hot Diggity]

It's an odd thing to say about a premiership team with the fewest players acquired via the National Draft than any other premier of the past 15 years.

Recruited from other clubs + Upgraded rookies

11 - 2014 Hawks: Burgoyne, Gibson, Lake, Gunston, McEvoy, Hale, Spangher, Breust, Puopolo, Suckling, Langford
10 - 2015 Hawks: Burgoyne, Gibson, Lake, Gunston, McEvoy, Hale, Frawley, Breust, Puopolo, Suckling
10 - 2013 Hawks: Burgoyne, Gibson, Lake, Gunston, Hale, Guerra, Simpkin, Breust, Puopolo, Sewell
10 - 2005 Swans: Hall, Schneider, Williams, Davis, Jolly, Ball, Bolton, Kirk, Bevan, Kennelly
10 - 2012 Swans: Kennedy, Shaw, Richards, Mattner, Mumford, Morton, Jack, Grundy, Smith, Pyke
10 - 2019 Tigers: Prestia, Houli, Caddy, Nankervis, Lynch, Lambert, Castagna, Soldo, Baker, Pickett
9 - 2010 Magpies: Ball, Jolly, L.Brown, Maxwell, Toovey, Lumumba, Wellingham, Blair, Macaffer
8 - 2017 Tigers: Prestia, Houli, Caddy, Nankervis, Grigg, Lambert, Castagna, Townsend
8 - 2008 Hawks - Croad, Dew, Guerra, Gilham, Sewell, Osborne, Campbell, Young
7 - 2018 Eagles: Kennedy, Yeo, Jetta, Redden, Cripps, Vardy, McGovern
7 - 2006 Eagles - Chick, Stenglein, Armstrong, Cox, Fletcher, Lynch, B.Jones
7 - 2016 Doggies: T.Boyd, M.Boyd, Morris, Picken, Johanissen, Dahlhaus, Biggs
5 - 2009 Cats: Ottens, Harley, Mooney, Rooke, Byrnes
5 - 2007 Cats: Ottens, Harley, Mooney, Rooke, Byrnes
1 - 2011 Cats: Ottens

Poppy was drafted 66 in 2010 draft - not a rookie.

 

[Freomaniac]

Wow..what a lacklustre list of youth!

Compare that to the bulldogs 23 and under:

Lewis Young (21)
Josh Dunkley (23)
Bailey Smith (19)
Josh Schache (22)
Rhylee West (20)
Louis Butler (18)
Cody Weightman (19)
Ed Richards (21)
Latham Vandermeer (21)
Beku Khamis (20)
Patrick Lipinski (22)
Callum Porter (21)
Fergus Green (23)
Aaron Naughton(20)
Bailey Williams (22)
Brad Lynch (23)
Riley Garcia(19)
Lachie Young(21)
Jordan Sweet(20)
Ryan Gardener(23)
Tim English(22)

All have played AFL games except for 3 players on that list and majority are in best 22.

Not a bad Bunch of kids. Suprised Schache was traded in Cheaply.

Naughton is a strange one for Freo fans. He was right under the dockers noses at Peel.

Yeah we chose brayshaw at pick 2 and Cerra at pick 5. Brayshaw is the type of bloke you get with pick 15-25.

Cerra is worth the pick 5. Tim English is solid. But yeah its strange that the dogs won the 2016 flag and half of that side is gone because of reitrement or traded or delisted or taken as a free agent.

How many Premierships have those players won?

That’s like me simply being happy the Kings have better youth than the Lakers.

I am an orlando magic fan so I cant say much either

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Spot on. Tall poppy syndrome. A classic Aussie trait. Now you know!!

Plus our IP has been drained. You got Dimma, and Carlton are now enjoying the quality of Andrew Russell. Who was only at Hawthorn for 14 years turning our players into finely tuned machines.

Anyway, that's what happens when you're successful. It's happening to Richmond as we speak.

Yep, I probably should've put this on the Rumours Board, but word is the Bombers are apparently exploring options on how to pimp the colour red to look more yellow

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Loved this response. I was just having a cheeky razz, nothing sinister. Appreciate your objectivity

Ha, nurries mate. Don't mind a good "champing" every now and again

 

[Gavin Excell]

Ha, nurries mate. Don't mind a good "champing" every now and again

Great stuff chief

 

[RobbieGray17]

Yes, Definitely

 

[jackenny]

Yep, I probably should've put this on the Rumours Board, but word is the Bombers are apparently exploring options on how to pimp the colour red to look more yellow

pictured: young Bachar Houli

 

[Richo83]

You are in no position to talk about kinks. You're clearly a masochist. Why else would a 15 year old barrack for Carlton?

I really doubt a 15 year old would know who Foucault is, or understand anything he wrote. It's kinda obvious that they're not 15 years old.

 

[Richo83]

Why is it the AFL's fault that Hawthorn doesn't know how to play at the giants' home ground? If you look at final siren's breakdown of the fixture, Hawthorn played the most games of away with disadvantage (seven) but the hawks' neutral record is 13th for wins per game. Richmond got no home with neutral games this year and was still able to make this year work. Also only club besides the WA sides and Adelaide not to win a away game with disadvantage.

If you remove the fixturing issues (and Hawthorn gets a fixturing legup by hosting matches in Tasmania, just ask final siren), Hawthorn finish around 12-14th not 16th.

 

[WWSD]

Why is it the AFL's fault that Hawthorn doesn't know how to play at the giants' home ground? If you look at final siren's breakdown of the fixture, Hawthorn played the most games of away with disadvantage (seven) but the hawks' neutral record is 13th for wins per game. Richmond got no home with neutral games this year and was still able to make this year work. Also only club besides the WA sides and Adelaide not to win a away game with disadvantage.

If you remove the fixturing issues (and Hawthorn gets a fixturing legup by hosting matches in Tasmania, just ask final siren), Hawthorn finish around 12-14th not 16th.

I can’t see any team beating Hawthorn at the MCG in 2021.