Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[thejockey]

Interesting read . The fascination and knowledge other supporters seem to have of our clubs list is extraordinary.

Clearly we’ve been fairly successful in the last decade .

 

[Nugett]

So by this definition you don't rate Mitchell

Which one? Sam or Tom?

 

[WWSD]

Interesting read . The fascination and knowledge other supporters seem to have of our clubs list is extraordinary.

Clearly we’ve been fairly successful in the last decade .

Still won more finals than Essendon, Carlton, St Kilda the last five years so must be doing something right.

 

[demondavey]

Up Chris Scott’s clacker?

View attachment 669948

He does have some crazily funny mannerisms

 

[demondavey]

Fact: Selwood does duck. Has the highest free kicks for in head high tackles. Will admit has been a good in and under player. The ducking has been a huge part of his game.

Fact: GAJ is highly overrated. Geelong won a premiership after he left in 2011. The suns are starting to improve that he has left. If he was so good as people suggest, then like the true greats he would have elevated those around him, along with himself. 1-2 handball disposals is not a measure of a great team player, but a player driven by his own stats. Hence he is overrated.

I’ve watched Geelong a lot over the years and Selwood is pretty much the barometer for Geelong. He is a bit more than an in and under player. He is probably the toughest bloke in the competition, an elite user, heart and soul of the Cats like Hodge was for you.

 

[demondavey]

If amazes me how much flack Hawks fans give Selwood yet wouldn’t bat an eyelid if he joined them. All of a sudden the comments would probably stop wouldn’t they?

 

[Loken]

If amazes me how much flack Hawks fans give Selwood yet wouldn’t bat an eyelid if he joined them. All of a sudden the comments would probably stop wouldn’t they?

Can you imagine what they used to call Wingard

 

[demondavey]

Can you imagine what they used to call Wingard

Rioli was an expert ducker. An absolute notorious exponent of it. I’ve watched him bury his head into Nathan Jones with Jones putting his hands up in the air, completely showing no contact to Rioli and Rioli drawing the free.

Hawks fans calling Selwood a ducker had a very very big culprit in Cyril ‘special’ Rioli hamming it up for years.

Would I take Cyril though? * yes.

 

[Nugett]

If amazes me how much flack Hawks fans give Selwood yet wouldn’t bat an eyelid if he joined them. All of a sudden the comments would probably stop wouldn’t they?

Might be that the Hawks picked Dowler over Selwood could be a lot of where the angst comes from! If Selwood joined the Hawks, then this thread would have a lot of merit, as to why the hawks have gotten somebody passed their prime as opposed to picking up a player that is about approach their prime, or in the middle of their prime. I’d then be questioning the validity of this approach.

 

[Benaly28]

Whilst have never really bottomed out,time will eventually catch up with them.Scully and Wingard yet to hit top gear,not sure Scully ever will but the draft is too important to keep ignoring.

 

[demondavey]

Might be that the Hawks picked Dowler over Selwood could be a lot of where the angst comes from! If Selwood joined the Hawks, then this thread would have a lot of merit, as to why the hawks have gotten somebody passed their prime as opposed to picking up a player that is about approach their prime, or in the middle of their prime. I’d then be questioning the validity of this approach.

Yeah the dreaded pick 6.

Selwood might duck, but there’s a lot more upside. Like, 95% more.

Wait so you’re saying it would or wouldn’t be a good idea to get him now?

 

[Nugett]

Yeah the dreaded pick 6.

Selwood might duck, but there’s a lot more upside. Like, 95% more.

Wait so you’re saying it would or wouldn’t be a good idea to get him now?

Selwood in his early to mid 20’s, would have him in a heartbeat. Selwood late 20’s early 30’s no thanks, as I don’t think he would have anything to offer in going forwards

 

[demondavey]

Selwood in his early to mid 20’s, would have him in a heartbeat. Selwood late 20’s early 30’s no thanks, as I don’t think he would have anything to offer in going forwards

I’d take him right now. Seriously. We need someone like him. That’s just as a Demons supporters perspective though. My perspective.

 

[ChappyUK]

Can you imagine what they used to call Wingard

or do to him.

 

[ChappyUK]

Whilst have never really bottomed out,time will eventually catch up with them.Scully and Wingard yet to hit top gear,not sure Scully ever will but the draft is too important to keep ignoring.

How many No. 1s do Carlton have?

 

[ChappyUK]

Which one? Sam or Tom?

Damning to both that you need to ask.

 

[PhatBoy]

Fact: Selwood does duck. Has the highest free kicks for in head high tackles. Will admit has been a good in and under player. The ducking has been a huge part of his game.

Fact: GAJ is highly overrated. Geelong won a premiership after he left in 2011. The suns are starting to improve that he has left. If he was so good as people suggest, then like the true greats he would have elevated those around him, along with himself. 1-2 handball disposals is not a measure of a great team player, but a player driven by his own stats. Hence he is overrated.

Fact: Ablett Jr had the Suns in the top 8 and bound for the finals when he did his shoulder. They were 9-6 including wins against Geelong, North, Richmond who all played finals that year. This was in their fourth season.

Fact: they won 5 of their next 29 matches.

Do some f***ing research you clod

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Whilst have never really bottomed out,time will eventually catch up with them.Scully and Wingard yet to hit top gear,not sure Scully ever will but the draft is too important to keep ignoring.

Seems like every 4-5 pages the same point needs to be made that Hawthorn don’t ignore the elite end of the draft, they just don’t go shopping on the same day as everyone else.

Wingard, Scrimshaw, Scully - all top 10 picks brought in last October, all with exposed form.

Then there’s O’Meara, Mitchell, Impey, Big Boy etc.

If the option is to take pick 12 to the draft for a 70% chance at landing a 200 game player why wouldn’t you hand that pick over for a player with some sort of exposed form at the top level and take that 30% risk out of the equation.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Seems like every 4-5 pages the same point needs to be made that Hawthorn don’t ignore the elite end of the draft, they just don’t go shopping on the same day as everyone else.

Wingard, Scrimshaw, Scully - all top 10 picks brought in last October, all with exposed form.

Then there’s O’Meara, Mitchell, Impey, Big Boy etc.

If the option is to take pick 12 to the draft for a 70% chance at landing a 200 game player why wouldn’t you hand that pick over for a player with some sort of exposed form at the top level and take that 30% risk out of the equation.

That’s because it’s a flawed observation.

It’s obviously not a direct comparison, otherwise nobody would draft players.

As a playing resource, you don’t have them for an entire career as you would a draftee.

Wingard - 25yo when he came to Hawthorn

O’Meara - 23yo

Mitchell - 23yo

Impey - 22yo

McEvoy - 25yo

Scrimshaw - 20yo

Scully - 27yo

And it’s not a 100% risk free equation, of course. There were / are doubts on the likelihood of Wingard, O’Meara, Scrimshaw and Scully producing. If there weren’t, they either wouldn’t be available for trade or would be much more expensive.

And the other three played effective senior football for their former clubs, hence the point about Hawthorn not having access to them for their whole career, as they would a draftee.

 

[ChappyUK]

Seems like every 4-5 pages the same point needs to be made that Hawthorn don’t ignore the elite end of the draft, they just don’t go shopping on the same day as everyone else.

Wingard, Scrimshaw, Scully - all top 10 picks brought in last October, all with exposed form.

Then there’s O’Meara, Mitchell, Impey, Big Boy etc.

If the option is to take pick 12 to the draft for a 70% chance at landing a 200 game player why wouldn’t you hand that pick over for a player with some sort of exposed form at the top level and take that 30% risk out of the equation.

You aren't taking any risk out of the equation. Some players thrive at new clubs. Some stagnate. It's not an exact science.

Jono O'Rourke was a No. 2 pick. I see he deliberately forgotten in this discussion.

 

[Boxhead_31]

Fact: Selwood does duck. Has the highest free kicks for in head high tackles. Will admit has been a good in and under player. The ducking has been a huge part of his game.

Fact: GAJ is highly overrated. Geelong won a premiership after he left in 2011. The suns are starting to improve that he has left. If he was so good as people suggest, then like the true greats he would have elevated those around him, along with himself. 1-2 handball disposals is not a measure of a great team player, but a player driven by his own stats. Hence he is overrated.

And your thoughts on Puopolo?

 

[ChappyUK]

And your thoughts on Puopolo?

And Sicily

 

[Pessimistic]

Well of course if you have currency and recruiting nous. We gave up pick 56 (I think) for Miers, pick 62 for Rohan, Atkins was drafted as a rookie, and Dahlhaus as a FA. Not much in the scheme of things.

Our problems were easier fixed that Hawthorns though which leads me to my previous question of which forward you're going to kick it to should Coniglio be your main focus and you happen to convince him to come to Hawthorn.

Geelong already had Hawkins and Ratugolea who were working well until the latters injury (6 wins, 2 losses)

Roughead appears to be in steep decline and Gunston doesn't look the same player and isn't a commanding key position forward. If you could somehow land Patton and get him right and he manages to live up to potential (big if) you could well improve. As you know, good key forwards are the hardest area on the ground to recruit. As far as I can see you have more deficiencies than you have currency to fix them in the short term.

All kudos to Geelong but Ratogolea was pick 43 in 2016 and Hawkins is older than all our forwards except roughy

You are smashing it for my argument against the OP

 

[Pessimistic]

You aren't taking any risk out of the equation. Some players thrive at new clubs. Some stagnate. It's not an exact science.

Jono O'Rourke was a No. 2 pick. I see he deliberately forgotten in this discussion.

There’s other fails. Geelong have had a notable couple too. Geelongs continued success is a side argument against this thread title. Let’s get that straight

 

[Ambrosia]

Wasn't Lewis 28/29?

4 timer and vice captain. Deleds fetched a first rounder and achieved 2 tenths of ferk all in his footy career. Gibbs even more. We gifted these blokes away, which is why it put so many noses out of joint with supporters. Fair enough too.

He was 30. I'm sure if Hawthorn had of offered him a similar deal to Melbourne he would have happily stayed.