Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? | Page 23 | BigFooty

Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

Discussion in 'AFL - The Australian Football League' started by Bunk Moreland, Oct 18, 2018.

  1. newblueo

    newblueo Club Legend

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    An you chopped 3 top 16 picks this year..

    the term I shall use is middling ground ..
     

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  2. Gralin

    Gralin Super Moderator

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    who were the 3 top 16 picks we chopped?
     
  3. newblueo

    newblueo Club Legend

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    Ty was chopped before he retired
    Lovell pick 22 1st round pick
    Jok

    So to brag you have 1st round picks come in is a bit much when 4 came off the list if you count rioli..

    2 kick nash will lead hawks to the next flag but haha
     
  4. Gralin

    Gralin Super Moderator

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    Ty was a FA, cost us nothing in picks
    Neither O'Rourke or Lovell were pick 16 or earlier from us.
    Burton wasn't either
    Rioli was, ten years ago

    so your pick 16 comment was let's just say inaccurate

    We played all year without Vickery, most of the year without Rioli. I'm going to miss Sizzle but those two while losses from the list aren't losses from the team we ran out most weeks.

    Lovell didn't play senior footy this year, Jono got a few games but in the end his body wasn't up to it.

    The biggest impact will be Burton as he played most games, Wingard should easily have more impact next year.
     
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  5. Pessimistic

    Pessimistic TheBrownDog

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    Lovell is proof we cant handle raw first round picks
     
  6. citizen-erased

    citizen-erased Brownlow Medallist

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    I would say no.

    The 3peat team had its fair share of talent from the elite end.
    Hodge, Lewis, Roughead, Buddy, Rioli, Birchall, Smith - all critical to their success, all of them 1st rd picks.
    McEvoy, Lake, Gunston, Burgoyne, Hale - all cost 1st rd picks
    Frawley was considered the equivalent of one as a FA
    And now, Mitchell cost them a 1st in the biggest trade steal of all time. Jaeger cost them a 1st and a raft of other picks.
    And Wingard has cost them 2.

    I'd argue you take Buddy and Lewis out of the threepeat side, and they don't win that many premierships.
    So it was a draft where they had 3x top 10 picks and nailed each one, on top of a number of other round 1 successes and drafting of high end talent in whilst a destination club that led to their success.

    Will they compete. Of course
    Are they premiership fancies any time soon? no.

    Feels like they've gone the Swans/Cats route of trying to rebuild whilst still making finals.
    Yet to see a team succeed in that approach.
     
  7. Furn2

    Furn2 Norm Smith Medallist

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    People act like we are passing on 1st round draft picks. We are trading them for proven players with plenty of footy left.

    If we had traded those picks that got Buddy and Lewis in 2004 for say Nick Riewoldt and Jimmy Bartel we would have been just as good. Then if we did the same in 05/06 with the picks we used on Dowler, Eliis and Thorp and traded for proven players we'd have been much better off.
     
  8. Pessimistic

    Pessimistic TheBrownDog

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    Take Buddy out of the threepeat side? How'd he go in 2014 GF?
     
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  9. Simon_Nesbit

    Simon_Nesbit Brownlow Medallist

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    We would have traded for him with 2 x 1st round picks.
     
  10. footyfan78

    footyfan78 Brownlow Medallist

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    there are no other teams worthy
    huh? why are you lumping in Swans with Hawks? Going a very different route. ...
    Swans have genuinely been re-generating and why they had relatively young teams in last two seasons.
    Heeney, Mills, Florent, Will Hayward, Tom Papley, Ben Ronke and Tom McCartin all come via drafting and Aliir been a good project type too. I've not seen Swans trading away their ability to draft youth at all. Even last time they won flag they did not trade out of first round to top up. Got Jake Lloyd and following season Zak Jones. They are probably the most balanced club in terms of list management for last couple of decades. They simply do it right and re-generate all the time. They barely missed finals in last two decades since mid 90's.
     
  11. Pessimistic

    Pessimistic TheBrownDog

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    Their best two players were traded in from the Hawks. Unless they get some *academy* gold quick I can see them diving far faster than the hawks or cats once Kennedy and Buddy retire
    I wouldn't mind taking up a bet along those lines.....

    Jake Lloyd – 540 votes
    Luke Parker – 517 votes
    Lance Franklin – 510 votes
    Isaac Heeney – 463 votes
    Josh Kennedy – 435 votes
    Dane Rampe – 433 votes
    George Hewett – 430 votes
    Jarrad McVeigh – 353 votes
    Callum Sinclair – 351 votes
    Harry Cunningham – 331 votes
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018

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  12. footyfan78

    footyfan78 Brownlow Medallist

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    there are no other teams worthy
    You missed the point of my post.
    I was responding to someone's lack of thought, saying Swans and Hawks on same route in recent years. They not, very different.
     
  13. Pessimistic

    Pessimistic TheBrownDog

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    Yep, have the academy rort
     
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  14. footyfan78

    footyfan78 Brownlow Medallist

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    Did with Heeney and will be with Blakey too. They do it well more often that not.
     
  15. Marc_Remillard

    Marc_Remillard Angel of the Abyss

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    Vickery is a loss from the list?

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Gralin

    Gralin Super Moderator

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    Someone was trying to make the we've lost more first rounders than we've gained by using Vickery.

    Yes he was technically on our list this year
     
  17. Luv_our_club

    Luv_our_club Premiership Player

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    What high end talent did we trade in to contribute to the 3peat as a destination club?

    No one wanted Lake, Hale.
    Gibson was middling at North Melbourne.
    St Kilda approached us about McEvoy... we didn't approach him. He went for 2nd rounders.
    Frawley... probably chose us because of our success. I never viewed him as high end however.
    Burgoyne... he was high end talent but injured, we had missed the finals and people thought we were making a mistake.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
  18. Marc_Remillard

    Marc_Remillard Angel of the Abyss

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    Vickery leaving has improved the Hawthorn list
     
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  19. Gralin

    Gralin Super Moderator

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    certainly freed up a list spot and some $$ which can be used on a player that will actually contribute
     
  20. Marc_Remillard

    Marc_Remillard Angel of the Abyss

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    I agree, anyone who argues anything different is either trolling or has nfi

    He was a FA wasn't he?
     
  21. Gralin

    Gralin Super Moderator

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    yeah he was an RFA
    So he was on the books for 2 years whether he played every game or walked away 5 minutes after signing the contract.

    Was a big miss by the club but not like we had much in the way of picks to trade for anyone better, I can understand why they picked him up but they got that one wrong

    Still only cost us salary cap, we didn't waste any players or picks trading for him so the damage wasn't massive
     
  22. newblueo

    newblueo Club Legend

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    You haven't seen O'Brien play then
     
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  23. Marc_Remillard

    Marc_Remillard Angel of the Abyss

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    Every club has misses
     
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  24. WWSD

    WWSD Premium Platinum

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    The new inclusions are better than those players who have gone out d*******
     
  25. WWSD

    WWSD Premium Platinum

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    Is O’Brien in the Hawks best 22? No.

    Hawthorn should adopt the Carlton approach. Recruit 2 or 3 Western Sydney players every off-season and still finish last. :D
     
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