Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

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Nugett

Premiership Player
Apr 2, 2017
4,222
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I'm sorry to say this but I really think Hawthorn are going to bottom out in 2020 and won't even g
Day was a bit of a 'reach' was he not? went up the rankings closer to the draft (like Pickett) but was not that highly ranked for much the year iirc...

he may be, but his body type is a bit of a concern, cant believe how slim he is. Did not want him at the Tigers tbh. But who knows, might end up a unit like fyfe.

In a pool of Flanders, Green, Rowell, Aish etc. i think its a bit of a stretch to classify Day as 'elite' but each to his own. Was clarko getting sentimental?

furthermore im surprised how far maginness slid
Any different to how far Tom Green slid? This year players that were tied to clubs, seemed to slide as the other clubs didn’t appear interested in wasting a pick.
 

threesixpio

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 28, 2013
25,512
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Keep telling yourself that. You probably even believe it too. :$ Hawthorn were very lucky as they won theirs against interstate clubs. Similar to Richmond yet ours weren't during the compromised drafts with heaps of weaker teams. I also recall Richmond beating Hawthorn many times during their so called dominant era. And we were shit. Did Hawthorn ever finish on top even? Delusional.
Kind of beat one of the best teams of the last two decades in 2008 and Swans were no slouches in 2014.

Weirdly enough I think Richmond have been playing a pretty poor comp by comparison to us. The evened out comp means you don’t get a stupidly good team like the Cats in 08 that you have to beat

You reckon GWS and Adelaide were harder teams to beat ...?



 

Mitchell54

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 6, 2013
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I think any team can succeed while not being in the top end of the draft. It's about trading the rights guys in with the right game plan and able to get late draft gems. There's many ways that could lead to success as there are many factors that contribute to a team's success.

As the saying goes "A team of champions is no match for a champion team".

If you have a tight knit group that can play well to a game plan and compliment each other's strengths than success is not too far away around the corner.

To be specific about Hawthorn I think Clarko does well in creating a great, family type environment.

Hawthorn have been able to identify players such as Impey, Mitchell, Wingard, Scully, Patton & Scrimshaw which fit well into how Clarko wants to play footy.

Just from looking at our recruiting over the past years traits we like in players are:
Speed
Contested marking
Foot skills

Obviously Clarko is looking to play a brand of footy that requires these skills and Wright, Clarko & McKenzie have worked together to make sure the right players are on the list to achieve the playing style that Clarkson desires and the one he thinks Hawthorn can achieve success with.
 

btdg

Premiership Player
Oct 7, 2005
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I think any team can succeed while not being in the top end of the draft. It's about trading the rights guys in with the right game plan and able to get late draft gems. There's many ways that could lead to success as there are many factors that contribute to a team's success.

As the saying goes "A team of champions is no match for a champion team".

If you have a tight knit group that can play well to a game plan and compliment each other's strengths than success is not too far away around the corner.

To be specific about Hawthorn I think Clarko does well in creating a great, family type environment.

Hawthorn have been able to identify players such as Impey, Mitchell, Wingard, Scully, Patton & Scrimshaw which fit well into how Clarko wants to play footy.

Just from looking at our recruiting over the past years traits we like in players are:
Speed
Contested marking
Foot skills

Obviously Clarko is looking to play a brand of footy that requires these skills and Wright, Clarko & McKenzie have worked together to make sure the right players are on the list to achieve the playing style that Clarkson desires and the one he thinks Hawthorn can achieve success with.
While I agree with most of this, let’s not pretend Hawthorn has a master plan to recruit the players they did. Patton, Wingard, Scrimshaw, Scully etc are playing for Hawthorn because they were available, not because of some majestic process of targeting them.

that’s what makes Hawthotns approach so interesting imo.They targeted Mitchell and O’Meara and flipped out Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis. The premise was then ‘enough 23-28 year old guys will be available with free agency and players wanting to move, particularly given we are 7-8 years post expansion, so we will go all in and see what shakes out’.

I think Hawthorn were right in that approach, but it is still a bit of a Frankenstein’s monster beyond the Mitchell/O’Meara core. Patton’s available as a salary dump? Sure. Worpel slid in the draft? Great, he’s our next big thing. Scully’s feet exploded and GWS want him off the salary cap? Wingard underperforming? Send them all our way and Clarko can figure it out...

And Clarko is pretty good at doing that, so at least it’s worth a shot. Might not be as simple and neat as a 5 year youth project but it’s entertaining. Theres a chance it all falls apart... and then - a 5 year youth project can begin anyway, so no harm done?
 

Mitchell54

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 6, 2013
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While I agree with most of this, let’s not pretend Hawthorn has a master plan to recruit the players they did. Patton, Wingard, Scrimshaw, Scully etc are playing for Hawthorn because they were available, not because of some majestic process of targeting them.

that’s what makes Hawthotns approach so interesting imo.They targeted Mitchell and O’Meara and flipped out Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis. The premise was then ‘enough 23-28 year old guys will be available with free agency and players wanting to move, particularly given we are 7-8 years post expansion, so we will go all in and see what shakes out’.

I think Hawthorn were right in that approach, but it is still a bit of a Frankenstein’s monster beyond the Mitchell/O’Meara core. Patton’s available as a salary dump? Sure. Worpel slid in the draft? Great, he’s our next big thing. Scully’s feet exploded and GWS want him off the salary cap? Wingard underperforming? Send them all our way and Clarko can figure it out...

And Clarko is pretty good at doing that, so at least it’s worth a shot. Might not be as simple and neat as a 5 year youth project but it’s entertaining. Theres a chance it all falls apart... and then - a 5 year youth project can begin anyway, so no harm done?
Obviously drafting and trading is a very opportunistic business but there's traits in those players that we are targeting. We can't tell how the market is going to play out and who's going to be available but you can target people who are available whether that be as a trade or drafting who have traits that the team is looking for to make the desired game plan work to the best of its ability.

The great thing about this sport is that there's no clear way as to how to best set the team up for success which leads to teams doing all sorts of teams trying different things in all areas of the industry and that makes for an interesting and exciting sport.
 

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chelseacarlton

BLUE it's the Magic Number
Apr 13, 2008
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Hawthorn will not win another flag under Clarksons tutelage.
He’s done, the new school are here and the master is now a mere blot on the intel landscape.
I hope he enjoyed the snow this year as much he pretended to, because that will be his only highlight until he either jumps or gets pushed.
To be honest, I’ll kind of miss his snipey demeanour and gyprock angst.
👍
 
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WWSD

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Hawthorn will not win another flag under Clarksons tutelage.
He’s done, the new school are here and the master is now a mere blot on the intel landscape.
I hope he enjoyed the snow this as he pretended to, because that will be his only highlight until he either jumps or gets pushed.
To be honest, I’ll kind of miss his snipey demeanour and gyprock angst.
👍
Quality input.

Hawthorn should definitely adopt the Carlton approach. Recruit number one picks left and right whilst somehow going backwards every year. That’s one hell of a recruiting strategy!
 

threesixpio

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 28, 2013
25,512
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Hawthorn will not win another flag under Clarksons tutelage.
He’s done, the new school are here and the master is now a mere blot on the intel landscape.
I hope he enjoyed the snow this as he pretended to, because that will be his only highlight until he either jumps or gets pushed.
To be honest, I’ll kind of miss his snipey demeanour and gyprock angst.
👍
What’s tomorrow’s Tatts numbers? You seem rool good at predictions

“Which team would you like to support son?”

“The Blues Daddy. They’re gonna be great. Yay!”
 

Gavin Excell

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 22, 2007
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Hawthorn will not win another flag under Clarksons tutelage.
He’s done, the new school are here and the master is now a mere blot on the intel landscape.
I hope he enjoyed the snow this year as much he pretended to, because that will be his only highlight until he either jumps or gets pushed.
To be honest, I’ll kind of miss his snipey demeanour and gyprock angst.
👍
A like for "gyprock angst"
 

chelseacarlton

BLUE it's the Magic Number
Apr 13, 2008
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Quality input.

Hawthorn should definitely adopt the Carlton approach. Recruit number one picks left and right whilst somehow going backwards every year. That’s one hell of a recruiting strategy!
“Recruit number one picks.....”
Lol, you sir are an idiot.
What’s tomorrow’s Tatts numbers? You seem rool good at predictions

“Which team would you like to support son?”

“The Blues Daddy. They’re gonna be great. Yay!”
You do know that when one attempts humour, that there is the requirement laughter attached?
Your list is bland, a sand filled potholed highway, paint over cracks, a glass house....Clarkson is the rock, it’s only a matter of time now.
I’m enjoying watching the slow erosion.
👍
 

WWSD

Premium Platinum
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“Recruit number one picks.....”
Lol, you sir are an idiot.

You do know that when one attempts humour, that there is the requirement laughter attached?
Your list is bland, a sand filled potholed highway, paint over cracks, a glass house....Clarkson is the rock, it’s only a matter of time now.
I’m enjoying watching the slow erosion.
👍
I can assure you of two things:

1. Hawthorn will still finish above Carlton again
2. Hawthorn will win another Premiership before Carlton

I reckon Tom Papley is going to win the Blues best & fairest. 💩
 

chelseacarlton

BLUE it's the Magic Number
Apr 13, 2008
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I can assure you of two things:

1. Hawthorn will still finish above Carlton again
2. Hawthorn will win another Premiership before Carlton

I reckon Tom Papley is going to win the Blues best & fairest. 💩
My first opinion on you, still stands.

The days of sniping are done.
It worked well for the Master Sniper in having Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis, “glory days, in the wink of a young girls eye.....”
👍
 

TylerDurden

Premium Platinum
Mar 5, 2007
7,806
19,764
Lou's Tavern
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Hawthorn will not win another flag under Clarksons tutelage.
He’s done, the new school are here and the master is now a mere blot on the intel landscape.
I hope he enjoyed the snow this year as much he pretended to, because that will be his only highlight until he either jumps or gets pushed.
To be honest, I’ll kind of miss his snipey demeanour and gyprock angst.
👍
Fancy potting Clarko as a Blues fan. Righto.

It's ok, you've got the Teague train. Toot toot.
 

BJK#5

Premiership Player
Aug 9, 2017
4,913
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Ah i love pre season, the time of the year where garbage teams always guarantee next year will be different.


 

threesixpio

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 28, 2013
25,512
34,288
AFL Club
Hawthorn
“Recruit number one picks.....”
Lol, you sir are an idiot.

You do know that when one attempts humour, that there is the requirement laughter attached?
Your list is bland, a sand filled potholed highway, paint over cracks, a glass house....Clarkson is the rock, it’s only a matter of time now.
I’m enjoying watching the slow erosion.
👍
1575188215942.gif
 

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