Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

Pessimistic

TheBrownDog
Sep 13, 2000
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Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
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So if you go for Carlton , you could not have anything relevant to say on list builds, and if you go for Gold Coast you have no right to say anything on culture ?

You do realize that these big footy fans have not been involved with any decisions made ?

As a mod maybe you should not be saying this stuff. It adds nothing and is very immature
It is relevant when they advocate a strategy which has seen their own teams become second rate, despite getting all the 'elite picks'
 

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Niggles

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Jan 5, 2019
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Kind of beat one of the best teams of the last two decades in 2008 and Swans were no slouches in 2014.

Weirdly enough I think Richmond have been playing a pretty poor comp by comparison to us. The evened out comp means you don’t get a stupidly good team like the Cats in 08 that you have to beat

You reckon GWS and Adelaide were harder teams to beat ...?



Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.
 

QuietB

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2008
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Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.
Do you think the Hawks in 2008 were better than the 2013-2015 Hawks?
 

rogiebear93

Norm Smith Medallist
May 17, 2017
5,327
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So if you go for Carlton , you could not have anything relevant to say on list builds, and if you go for Gold Coast you have no right to say anything on culture ?

You do realize that these big footy fans have not been involved with any decisions made ?

As a mod maybe you should not be saying this stuff. It adds nothing and is very immature
It's amazing that you're trying to argue against one of the oldest trueisms in the world just to stay relevant in this thread.
 

chelseacarlton

BLUE it's the Magic Number
Apr 13, 2008
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your right. With humour comes laughter. It’s why for the past 20 years between the months of October through to March when a Carlton supporter says or writes that Carlton will be in the top 8 next season, I laugh and laugh and laugh. I just love a good punch line. Long may Carlton supporters sense of humour continue.
*you’re
You are welcome👍
You are the Donald Trump of this thread, covfefe.👍
 

threesixpio

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 28, 2013
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Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.
Cleared up that GWS and Adelaide were difficult teams to beat in a grannie?

Ahhh nah you didn’t
 

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WWSD

Premium Platinum
Sep 7, 2009
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Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.

 

Simon_Nesbit

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 26, 2001
10,687
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Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.
Apart from the two bolded points you completely failed on....

FA In: Frawley, Simpkin (DFA), Minchington (DFA), Henderson (DFA)
FA Out: FRANKLIN, Ellis, Suckling, Young

Hawthorn were the team MOST effected by introduction of FA.

Draftees take 5-8 years before peak performance, so the affected drafts only really took full effect around the 2016 period - which is why the period 2016-current has been so weak.
 

Eternal Schism

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Feb 17, 2014
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Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.
That's a complete myth.

For premiership players from the 2013, 2014, 2015 flags.

Already on the list in 2008


Max Bailey (2013)
Jarryd Roughead (2013, 2014, 2015)
Jordan Lewis (2013, 2014, 2015)
Sam Mitchell (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brad Sewell (2013)
Grant Birchall (2013, 2014, 2015)
Luke Hodge (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brent Guerra (2013)
Lance Franklin (2013)
Cyril Rioli (2013, 2014, 2015)


Drafted

Ryan Shoenmakers (2015) - Pick 16, 2008 AFL Draft
Liam Shiels (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 34, 2008 AFL Draft
Ben Stratton (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 46, 2009 AFL Draft
Taylor Duryea (2014, 2015) - Pick 69, 2009 AFL Draft
Issac Smith (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 19, 2010 AFL Draft
Paul Puopolo (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 66, 2010 AFL Draft
Bradley Hill (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 33, 2011 AFL Draft


Rookie Listed

Luke Bruest (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 47, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2011 AFL Draft)
Matthew Suckling (2014, 2015) - Pick 81, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2009 AFL Draft)
Will Langford (2014) - Pick 85, 2011 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2013 AFL Draft)


Traded For

Josh Gibson (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Pick 25, 41 for Josh Gibson & Pick 69
Shaun Burgoyne (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Multi way trade Picks 9, 16, 97 & Josh Nay for Shaun Burgoyne.
David Hale (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2010 Trade Period. End of First Round Compensation Pick (Campbell Brown left via Free Agency to GC) & Pick 71 for David Hale & Pick 52
Jack Gunston (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2011 Trade Period. Picks 24, 46 & 64 for Jack Gunston, Picks 52 & 71
Brian Lake (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2012 Trade Period. Picks 21 & 43 for Brian Lake & Pick 27
Matt Spangher (2014) - 2012 Trade Period. Pick 64 for Matt Spangher & Pick 70
Ben McEvoy (2014, 2015) - 2013 Trade Period. Shane Savage & Pick 17 for Ben McEvoy.

Free Agents

Johnathan Simpkin (2013 - Sub) - 2012 Delisted Free Agent
James Frawley (2015) - 2014 Unrestricted Free Agent


In this time frame Hawthorn saw Lance Franklin, Campbell Brown, Clinton Young, Tom Murphy, Xavier Ellis all leave under free agency.

Seems the "Hawthorn threepeat relied on free agency" myth has been busted.
 

QuietB

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2008
22,550
26,822
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.
That's a complete myth.

For premiership players from the 2013, 2014, 2015 flags.

Already on the list in 2008

Max Bailey (2013)
Jarryd Roughead (2013, 2014, 2015)
Jordan Lewis (2013, 2014, 2015)
Sam Mitchell (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brad Sewell (2013)
Grant Birchall (2013, 2014, 2015)
Luke Hodge (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brent Guerra (2013)
Lance Franklin (2013)
Cyril Rioli (2013, 2014, 2015)


Drafted

Ryan Shoenmakers (2015) - Pick 16, 2008 AFL Draft
Liam Shiels (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 34, 2008 AFL Draft
Ben Stratton (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 46, 2009 AFL Draft
Taylor Duryea (2014, 2015) - Pick 69, 2009 AFL Draft
Issac Smith (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 19, 2010 AFL Draft
Paul Puopolo (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 66, 2010 AFL Draft
Bradley Hill (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 33, 2011 AFL Draft


Rookie Listed

Luke Bruest (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 47, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2011 AFL Draft)
Matthew Suckling (2014, 2015) - Pick 81, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2009 AFL Draft)
Will Langford (2014) - Pick 85, 2011 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2013 AFL Draft)


Traded For

Josh Gibson (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Pick 25, 41 for Josh Gibson & Pick 69
Shaun Burgoyne (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Multi way trade Picks 9, 16, 97 & Josh Nay for Shaun Burgoyne.
David Hale (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2010 Trade Period. End of First Round Compensation Pick (Campbell Brown left via Free Agency to GC) & Pick 71 for David Hale & Pick 52
Jack Gunston (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2011 Trade Period. Picks 24, 46 & 64 for Jack Gunston, Picks 52 & 71
Brian Lake (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2012 Trade Period. Picks 21 & 43 for Brian Lake & Pick 27
Matt Spangher (2014) - 2012 Trade Period. Pick 64 for Matt Spangher & Pick 70
Ben McEvoy (2014, 2015) - 2013 Trade Period. Shane Savage & Pick 17 for Ben McEvoy.

Free Agents

Johnathan Simpkin (2013 - Sub) - 2012 Delisted Free Agent
James Frawley (2015) - 2014 Unrestricted Free Agent


In this time frame Hawthorn saw Lance Franklin, Campbell Brown, Clinton Young, Tom Murphy, Xavier Ellis all leave under free agency.

Seems the "Hawthorn threepeat relied on free agency" myth has been busted.
That is some brutal take down

Although in Niggles defence there is no way Hawthorn could have done any of it without Simpkin and Frawley
 

WWSD

Premium Platinum
Sep 7, 2009
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That's a complete myth.

For premiership players from the 2013, 2014, 2015 flags.

Already on the list in 2008

Max Bailey (2013)
Jarryd Roughead (2013, 2014, 2015)
Jordan Lewis (2013, 2014, 2015)
Sam Mitchell (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brad Sewell (2013)
Grant Birchall (2013, 2014, 2015)
Luke Hodge (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brent Guerra (2013)
Lance Franklin (2013)
Cyril Rioli (2013, 2014, 2015)


Drafted

Ryan Shoenmakers (2015) - Pick 16, 2008 AFL Draft
Liam Shiels (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 34, 2008 AFL Draft
Ben Stratton (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 46, 2009 AFL Draft
Taylor Duryea (2014, 2015) - Pick 69, 2009 AFL Draft
Issac Smith (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 19, 2010 AFL Draft
Paul Puopolo (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 66, 2010 AFL Draft
Bradley Hill (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 33, 2011 AFL Draft


Rookie Listed

Luke Bruest (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 47, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2011 AFL Draft)
Matthew Suckling (2014, 2015) - Pick 81, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2009 AFL Draft)
Will Langford (2014) - Pick 85, 2011 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2013 AFL Draft)


Traded For

Josh Gibson (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Pick 25, 41 for Josh Gibson & Pick 69
Shaun Burgoyne (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Multi way trade Picks 9, 16, 97 & Josh Nay for Shaun Burgoyne.
David Hale (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2010 Trade Period. End of First Round Compensation Pick (Campbell Brown left via Free Agency to GC) & Pick 71 for David Hale & Pick 52
Jack Gunston (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2011 Trade Period. Picks 24, 46 & 64 for Jack Gunston, Picks 52 & 71
Brian Lake (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2012 Trade Period. Picks 21 & 43 for Brian Lake & Pick 27
Matt Spangher (2014) - 2012 Trade Period. Pick 64 for Matt Spangher & Pick 70
Ben McEvoy (2014, 2015) - 2013 Trade Period. Shane Savage & Pick 17 for Ben McEvoy.

Free Agents

Johnathan Simpkin (2013 - Sub) - 2012 Delisted Free Agent
James Frawley (2015) - 2014 Unrestricted Free Agent


In this time frame Hawthorn saw Lance Franklin, Campbell Brown, Clinton Young, Tom Murphy, Xavier Ellis all leave under free agency.

Seems the "Hawthorn threepeat relied on free agency" myth has been busted.
Game, set and match. :eek:
 

Pessimistic

TheBrownDog
Sep 13, 2000
70,464
29,904
Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Horks
Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.
I know plenty have had their say on this, but doesn't this refute the thread title? that the elite end of the drafts importance is diminshed?

Yes hawks have taken their luck, but you also need to be a consistenltly well run team.

even in 2001 when they 'got lucky' with the bumper draft, they also traded up, ie finished 4th not 4th last
 

threesixpio

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 28, 2013
25,528
34,319
AFL Club
Hawthorn
That's a complete myth.

For premiership players from the 2013, 2014, 2015 flags.

Already on the list in 2008

Max Bailey (2013)
Jarryd Roughead (2013, 2014, 2015)
Jordan Lewis (2013, 2014, 2015)
Sam Mitchell (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brad Sewell (2013)
Grant Birchall (2013, 2014, 2015)
Luke Hodge (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brent Guerra (2013)
Lance Franklin (2013)
Cyril Rioli (2013, 2014, 2015)


Drafted

Ryan Shoenmakers (2015) - Pick 16, 2008 AFL Draft
Liam Shiels (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 34, 2008 AFL Draft
Ben Stratton (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 46, 2009 AFL Draft
Taylor Duryea (2014, 2015) - Pick 69, 2009 AFL Draft
Issac Smith (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 19, 2010 AFL Draft
Paul Puopolo (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 66, 2010 AFL Draft
Bradley Hill (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 33, 2011 AFL Draft


Rookie Listed

Luke Bruest (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 47, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2011 AFL Draft)
Matthew Suckling (2014, 2015) - Pick 81, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2009 AFL Draft)
Will Langford (2014) - Pick 85, 2011 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2013 AFL Draft)


Traded For

Josh Gibson (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Pick 25, 41 for Josh Gibson & Pick 69
Shaun Burgoyne (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Multi way trade Picks 9, 16, 97 & Josh Nay for Shaun Burgoyne.
David Hale (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2010 Trade Period. End of First Round Compensation Pick (Campbell Brown left via Free Agency to GC) & Pick 71 for David Hale & Pick 52
Jack Gunston (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2011 Trade Period. Picks 24, 46 & 64 for Jack Gunston, Picks 52 & 71
Brian Lake (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2012 Trade Period. Picks 21 & 43 for Brian Lake & Pick 27
Matt Spangher (2014) - 2012 Trade Period. Pick 64 for Matt Spangher & Pick 70
Ben McEvoy (2014, 2015) - 2013 Trade Period. Shane Savage & Pick 17 for Ben McEvoy.

Free Agents

Johnathan Simpkin (2013 - Sub) - 2012 Delisted Free Agent
James Frawley (2015) - 2014 Unrestricted Free Agent


In this time frame Hawthorn saw Lance Franklin, Campbell Brown, Clinton Young, Tom Murphy, Xavier Ellis all leave under free agency.

Seems the "Hawthorn threepeat relied on free agency" myth has been busted.
Awww it’s not fair Lynch went to the Tiges me sad and stuff
 

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