Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

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matey

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That might the case, but who are Hawthorn overtaking to get there?

Richmond aren’t coming out of contention any time soon, the Bulldogs are still building, West Coast have just added another elite mid to an already well-rounded team and GWS have kept their grand final team in tact and are still in an upswing...

I think you could have nabbed another premiership with a better team in the period following your three peat, but there is far more upside in other teams currently, and the age profile of your list is going to start working against you if you can’t find another gear in the next few seasons.

Edit - forgot about Brisbane. It’s going to be even harder than I initially thought
Flying under the radar ..... a blessing in disguise.
 

matey

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Surely you’re taking the piss here.

There’s no current equivalent to Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and peak Franklin and Roughead.

You’ve got Tom Mitchell, returning from a significant injury, Worpel (not there yet, but I’m calling it) and Sicily as elite players, and that’s it.
Very disrespectful to Hodge, Mitch, Lewis, Roughy, Rioli and Birch as they are quad premiership players. Buddy only has two which is something he has to live with and ponder while looking over the Sydney harbour.

Hawks don’t need the best individual players in the comp. They just need a bunch of players that will play their role in a team that beats the other one.
 

Pessimistic

TheBrownDog
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Surely you’re taking the piss here.

There’s no current equivalent to Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and peak Franklin and Roughead.

You’ve got Tom Mitchell, returning from a significant injury, Worpel (not there yet, but I’m calling it) and Sicily as elite players, and that’s it.
can you honestly say you rated them that highly in 2008?

while those are proven champions now, the 23rd and 24th men were simon taylor and tom murphy. The only players outside the 22 who kicked on were joey kennedy and ben mcglynn at sydney

and the current midfield is a bit more flexible than that ‘one paced’ midfield, great as it was
 
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Gralin

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can you honestly say you rated them that highly in 2008?

while those are proven champions now, the 23rd and 24th men were simon taylor and tom murphy. The only players outside the 22 who kicked on were joey kennedy and ben mcglynn at sydney

and the current midfiels is a bit more flexible than that ‘one paced’ midfield, grat as it eas
Only 9 from 2008 played in 2013, less in the two after that

We'd turned over more than half the team
 

juss

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Oh yeah, that's the way footy goes with the draft and salary cap. You don't win a hat trick of flags with a team of champions and then immediately continue contending for premierships with a whole new batch of players. Show me the team who has done that?

Only on Big Footy would you get a conga line of clowns who'd diss a team for doing what the Hawks have done since 3peating.

I've enjoyed watching Hawthorn remain competitive in the top half of the ladder when everyone else tipped us to tumble down the ladder and finish 13th/14th or 15th. Way better than struggling to win a game, getting flogged most weeks and being a laughingstock like Carlton or Melbourne. F**k that. I remember cheering for "draft picks" back in 2004/05 and that sucked.

We had some good wins last year. We beat Geelong, West Coast, Collingwood, Adelaide and GWS(x2). We finished the year on a great note, thrashing the Eagles and f**king up Essendon's chances of an MCG final vs the Pies. We were still a possibility to play finals on the last day of the H&A season, which isn't such a bad year for a team in transition who were universally tipped to fall out of the top 8 in all the pre-season polls.

Richmond were the only team to really collar us. That 6 goal defeat was our most one-sided loss. The Lions also pantsed us, but only by 27 points.

I dunno... I don't get all the negativity about Hawthorn. Yeah, we don't have any Top 5 draft pick young guns, but Clarko is building a pretty good team that's tough to beat.
The funny thing is not many are dissing the Hawks. We are just stating reality that they are behind a few other teams right now and not likely to contend in the immediate future, and it seems only Hawthorn fans disagree from this prediction or view.

That's when we often here the "jelousy", "rent free", "Hawthorn/Clarko are the greatest" stories.
 

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Maxabillions

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I'm not 12 like you. I'm getting on a bit and so I have trouble with these interactive ladders

I tried playing around with the filters on that 2018 ladder on the Melbourne FC website, but i just couldn't get the Dees up into the Top 4

The only way I could do it was switch it over to the AFLW ladder

Maybe you'll have better luck than me???

Post a link once you've done it.
Definitely coming across as mature. Are you seriously trying to claim that Melbourne making a prelim was not a higher finish to the season (not the home and away season) than going out in straight sets?
 

Gralin

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Yeah except for crowd numbers. Go Hawks.
Crowd numbers is not declining memberships though

You claimed growing membership by a smaller percentage was proof we are declining.
You claimed 2016 and 2018 was back to back.

You claimed to feel bad about predicting years in the wilderness about 20 times

With efforts like that you could be ScoMo's PR team
 

Jobe Watson

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You claimed growing membership by a smaller percentage was proof we are declining.
Well I never mentioned memberships originally - someone else brought that metric up. And a significantly smaller growth % than previous years WOULD suggest that supporters are starting to drop off, like I said. These things usually happen gradually. I never said your membership number has gone backwards, though that is a real possibility this year. When you combine a tiny membership increase (compared to previous years) with falling crowd numbers then it's fair to say I was absolutely on the money (as usual) that Hawks supporters are starting to drop off, and it'll only continue if Hawthorn don't improve.

You claimed 2016 and 2018 was back to back.
Well that depends on how you look at it. If you look at it as back-to-back finals appearances/campaigns instead of back-to-back years then yes, Hawthorn flopped out in consecutive finals appearances.

You claimed to feel bad about predicting years in the wilderness about 20 times
Don't assume that you know what I'm feeling inside. I'm being sincere.
 

Gralin

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Well I never mentioned memberships originally - someone else brought that metric up. And a significantly smaller growth % than previous years WOULD suggest that supporters are starting to drop off, like I said. These things usually happen gradually. I never said your membership numbers are going backwards, though that is a real possibility this year. When you combine a tiny membership increase with falling crowd numbers then it's fair to say I was absolutely on the money (as usual) that Hawks supporters are starting to drop off, and it'll only continue if Hawthorn don't improve.


Well that depends on how you look at it. If you look at it as back-to-back finals appearances/campaigns instead of back-to-back years then yes, Hawthorn flopped out in consecutive finals appearances.


Don't assume that you know what I'm feeling inside. I'm being sincere.
Still growing is not starting to drop off. It is still growing.
In no way did we have consecutive finals appearances.

You're full of shit
 

Jobe Watson

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Still growing is not starting to drop off.
I never even mentioned membership when I said that Hawthorn supporters were starting to drop off - that was introduced by a Hawthorn poster, probably because it's one of the few things that Hawthorn improved on in 2019 (albeit only marginally). There are other metrics that show Hawthorn supporters are starting to drop off (eg. decrease in home game attendance in 2019, the lowest numbers since 2006) that make my original statement more than fair.

A slight increase in overall membership doesn't mean Hawthorn supporters aren't starting to drop off, either. Do you know how many members chose not to renew in 2019? Was it more than previous years? Given the significant decrease in membership growth %, the lacklustre performance of the team for most of the season (usually gets rid of the bandwagoners) and the drop in home game attendances, I would argue yes. More and more Hawthorn supporters are starting to drop off the team. Let's see if Hawthorn's membership numbers decline in 2020.

In no way did we have consecutive finals appearances.
No you didn't, but you went out in straight sets in consecutive finals campaigns. Just like Essendon have lost 6 consecutive finals (just 1 off the record!) with gaps in between each final, Hawthorn have flunked out of finals in straight sets in consecutive appearances (or back-to-back appearances, some might say).

You're full of shit
Objectively untrue. Please don't spread lies.
 
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Pessimistic

TheBrownDog
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Decrease in membership growth %?

is this where the debate is now? I suppose we should be grateful it’s not “dogs and cats hur hur”
 

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