Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[fnerd]

Early days, but Lynch’s last two games not much better than Mitch lewis’ one game

Lol
Oh well guess that sorts that then ,
Lewis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>lynch

Obviously clarko spotted this and advised his recruiting team to give the ol famous telephone call “yeah nah sorry tommy ,we got a better option aleardy in the sheds we’re not interested, maybe try the tiges bye”

 

[HeHateMe]

Are 2019 and 2020 genuinely expected to be development years?

How do you intend to solve the KP issues over the coming years?

Genuine questions

I think the club is thinking that:

Mitchell, Omeara, Gunston, Bruest, Mcevoy, Smith, Sicily, Stratton, Wingard, Scully and Hardwick are good enough to win a premiership so we are trying to fill out the other 11 spots.

Then we have guys like Henderson, Impey, Worpel, Scrimshaw, Puopolo, Frawley and Morrison who are probably good enough to fill out the Best 22 but we will need to add like 3-4 more very top line guys to the squad.

We're not going to get those 3-4 top line guys from the draft. (Unless a Walsh falls into our lap.)

So all in on the trade/FA wagon until more of the top 11 fall away.

"how do we win out NEXT premiership" the club must believe we could pinch one if things fall our way.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Yep this
Desperately trying to stay relevant ala cats and swans by topping up but have ignored the draft too much.
Yes those clubs brought in mature talent but they certainly never ignored the draft like clarko and the hawks have.
Desperately clinging on ,, while ignoring the draft would be a more apt thread title

We had 5 players on the weekend who were taken in the last 3 drafts - not including Scrimshaw who was drafted by Suns in 2016.

“Ignoring the draft”.

 

[Yoda_]

“Ignoring the draft”.

I think you misread the question champ

"ignoring the elite end of the draft"

 

[Yoda_]

They don't miss the drafts, they simply bypass with there own picks and look to get bargain guns from other clubs whilst clubs pay overs for spuds or b graders from them.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Sicily & Worpel are doing pretty good for guys that were left until 40's & 50's of the draft. There are maybe 6 players picked before Sicily in his draft year who are arguably better atm & maybe arguably 3 better than Worpel from his draft year.

I'd say we are doing just fine with our draft picks, despite not having 1st/2nd rounders too often.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I think you misread the question champ

"ignoring the elite end of the draft"

Hey champ, I quoted the post in question and made reference to it.

 

[Yoda_]

Hey champ, I quoted the post in question and made reference to it.

And like the rest of BigFooty, you only select and choose what you want to.



ps champ, you didn't even quote it right

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

And like the rest of BigFooty, you only select and choose what you want to.



ps champ, you didn't even quote it right

I responded to a quoted post, numbnuts.

 

[iameviljez]

Hawthorn haven't ignored the elite end of the draft. They've just figured out that if they can't access elite players in the top ten picks - because they are just not finishing low enough at the end of the year - then they can get them through aggressive trade, and using their leverage as a successful club to convince top players to join via free agency.

 

[WWSD]

I think you misread the question champ

"ignoring the elite end of the draft"

Worpel is essentially like having a first round pick given how he is turning out. He is right now a top 5 player in his draft class.

 

[TallyHawk]

Hawthorn haven't ignored the elite end of the draft. They've just figured out that if they can't access elite players in the top ten picks - because they are just not finishing low enough at the end of the year - then they can get them through aggressive trade, and using their leverage as a successful club to convince top players to join via free agency.

Someone gets it!


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[iameviljez]

Someone gets it!

Make no mistake, if Hawthorn had landed Tom Lynch, and Tom Mitchell hadn't been ruled out for the year, they'd be in flag contention right about now.

 

[TallyHawk]

Make no mistake, if Hawthorn had landed Tom Lynch, and Tom Mitchell hadn't been ruled out for the year, they'd be in flag contention right about now.

You can't land them all.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[hk89]

I think you misread the question champ

"ignoring the elite end of the draft"

We don't ignore the elite end of the draft, we defer it until we know which picks are going to be any good.

Over the last 3 off-seasons we've picked up 4 (5 if you concede Mitchell's F&S) top 10 draft picks, they were just
picked in earlier drafts and traded for.
Scully - Pick 1
O'Meara - Pick 1 in the mini draft which GC acquired by giving up pick #4 in the national draft.
Wingard - Pick 6 (Supposedly draft tampered by suggesting he'd not stay if he went to a non-SA side, otherwise would have been higher up the order).
Mitchell - Father and Son, probably top 10 rounder by all accounts if not selected F&S.
Scrimshaw - Pick 7

Of those , only Scrimshaw is debatable in terms of being worth a first rounder. Even if you assume GC got him
wrong with pick 7 (which is still very much up for debate given how well he's playing off so few senior games), how many clubs hit 4 out of 5 top 10 picks when they have them? More to the point, how many clubs make finals in 2 out of 3 seasons and have access to 5 top 10 picks over that period? Sure we've paid for them, and given up some picks (and one handy player), but clubs mess up picks all the time so the argument that we'd be better off using those picks given the players we've got out of them seems pretty dubious. Certainly super dubious that we be better off in the short term.

Hawthorn must be laughing at the rest of the competition and their overvaluing of draft picks right now. We haven't seen finals success from this strategy yet, and probably still have 2-3 holes preventing that from happening this year, especially with Mitchell unavailable for most of the year. However, as already stated in other replies, I'd much rather be in our current position than the position we would be in if we'd tried to go to the draft with our picks instead of the trade table. Out: Scully, Wingard, O'Meara, Mitchell In: Bunch of picks largely outside the top 10 and the speculative players we'd get from those picks in the draft would have given us 3 very depressing seasons, and a highly speculative core group to build our next tilt on.

 

[Gavin Excell]

We don't ignore the elite end of the draft, we defer it until we know which picks are going to be any good.

Over the last 3 off-seasons we've picked up 4 (5 if you concede Mitchell's F&S) top 10 draft picks, they were just
picked in earlier drafts and traded for.
Scully - Pick 1
O'Meara - Pick 1 in the mini draft which GC acquired by giving up pick #4 in the national draft.
Wingard - Pick 6 (Supposedly draft tampered by suggesting he'd not stay if he went to a non-SA side, otherwise would have been higher up the order).
Mitchell - Father and Son, probably top 10 rounder by all accounts if not selected F&S.
Scrimshaw - Pick 7

Of those , only Scrimshaw is debatable in terms of being worth a first rounder. Even if you assume GC got him
wrong with pick 7 (which is still very much up for debate given how well he's playing off so few senior games), how many clubs hit 4 out of 5 top 10 picks when they have them? More to the point, how many clubs make finals in 2 out of 3 seasons and have access to 5 top 10 picks over that period? Sure we've paid for them, and given up some picks (and one handy player), but clubs mess up picks all the time so the argument that we'd be better off using those picks given the players we've got out of them seems pretty dubious. Certainly super dubious that we be better off in the short term.

Hawthorn must be laughing at the rest of the competition and their overvaluing of draft picks right now. We haven't seen finals success from this strategy yet, and probably still have 2-3 holes preventing that from happening this year, especially with Mitchell unavailable for most of the year. However, as already stated in other replies, I'd much rather be in our current position than the position we would be in if we'd tried to go to the draft with our picks instead of the trade table. Out: Scully, Wingard, O'Meara, Mitchell In: Bunch of picks largely outside the top 10 and the speculative players we'd get from those picks in the draft would have given us 3 very depressing seasons, and a highly speculative core group to build our next tilt on.

Laughing at the competition from 11th spot

Yes of course

Perhaps I’m missing something but I genuinely see no reason for Hawthorn smugness.

 

[Yoda_]

We don't ignore the elite end of the draft, we defer it until we know which picks are going to be any good.

Over the last 3 off-seasons we've picked up 4 (5 if you concede Mitchell's F&S) top 10 draft picks, they were just
picked in earlier drafts and traded for.
Scully - Pick 1
O'Meara - Pick 1 in the mini draft which GC acquired by giving up pick #4 in the national draft.
Wingard - Pick 6 (Supposedly draft tampered by suggesting he'd not stay if he went to a non-SA side, otherwise would have been higher up the order).
Mitchell - Father and Son, probably top 10 rounder by all accounts if not selected F&S.
Scrimshaw - Pick 7

Of those , only Scrimshaw is debatable in terms of being worth a first rounder. Even if you assume GC got him
wrong with pick 7 (which is still very much up for debate given how well he's playing off so few senior games), how many clubs hit 4 out of 5 top 10 picks when they have them? More to the point, how many clubs make finals in 2 out of 3 seasons and have access to 5 top 10 picks over that period? Sure we've paid for them, and given up some picks (and one handy player), but clubs mess up picks all the time so the argument that we'd be better off using those picks given the players we've got out of them seems pretty dubious. Certainly super dubious that we be better off in the short term.

Hawthorn must be laughing at the rest of the competition and their overvaluing of draft picks right now. We haven't seen finals success from this strategy yet, and probably still have 2-3 holes preventing that from happening this year, especially with Mitchell unavailable for most of the year. However, as already stated in other replies, I'd much rather be in our current position than the position we would be in if we'd tried to go to the draft with our picks instead of the trade table. Out: Scully, Wingard, O'Meara, Mitchell In: Bunch of picks largely outside the top 10 and the speculative players we'd get from those picks in the draft would have given us 3 very depressing seasons, and a highly speculative core group to build our next tilt on.

Well done, you quite literally did all the work for my initial point above my response to Abasi

 

[Yoda_]

I responded to a quoted post, numbnuts.

and as I mentioned, you took it like an Australian journalist and twisted and contorted it to fully suit your own narrative.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

and as I mentioned, you took it like an Australian journalist and twisted and contorted it to fully suit your own narrative.

I quote a post and responded to it.

Are you thick?

 

[Yoda_]

Make no mistake, if Hawthorn had landed Tom Lynch, and Tom Mitchell hadn't been ruled out for the year, they'd be in flag contention right about now.

Yeah, and imagine Essendon picked up Clayton Oliver instead of Aaron Francis they'd be right in contention too.

Hindsight drafting/trading is crap. Everything looks better in hindsight.

 

[Yoda_]

I quote a post and responded to it.

Are you thick?

You didn't quote it correctly

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You didn't quote it correctly

Bullshit.

Where is “elite end of the draft” in this post?

Yep this
Desperately trying to stay relevant ala cats and swans by topping up but have ignored the draft too much.
Yes those clubs brought in mature talent but they certainly never ignored the draft like clarko and the hawks have.

Desperately clinging on ,, while ignoring the draft would be a more apt thread title

 

[Gavin Excell]

To me the staggering thing is hawks fans thinking they can win a flag next year given the weakness of the list

 

[Gavin Excell]

To me the staggering thing is hawks fans thinking they can win a flag next year given the weakness of the list

I should clarify that by saying some Hawks fans

Not all that deluded granted

 

[fnerd]

Bullshit.

Where is “elite end of the draft” in this post?

Right there in the bolded

Yep this
Desperately trying to stay relevant ala cats and swans by topping up but have ignored the elite end of the draft too much.
Yes those clubs brought in mature talent but they certainly never ignored the draft like clarko and the hawks have.
Desperately clinging on ,, while ignoring the elite end of the draft would be a more apt thread title