Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Sonny Hayes]

So? Are we using Wayne Carey's opinion as an objective measure of talent now?


I don't think so. I can categorically say with 100% certainty that Worpel will never be as good as Bontempelli. Not next year, not ever. You can bookmark this post if you like, but it's all in vain.

The Bont has a unique skillset that cannot be taught. You're either born with it or you're not. If we're comparing Worpel with Doggies players, someone like Macrae is the more reasonable benchmark.

No you can't

 

[Vindicater]

At the same age, same number of games s###s all over Bontempelli. One thing for sure Worpel would not have rolled over and squibbed it against GWS when they bullied the soft little puppies in the finals. Worpel would have lead and put his head over the ball!

Bontempelli won AFL best first year player in his first season.
Then he went on to win bestyoung player of the year in the following season.

Please go look at Worpels finals stats.

Edit: I really like Worpel by the way. Think he will be a very good player for a very long time.

 

[Gavin Excell]

There you go again with this crap! It's like you gotta cling to something hey!

Lewis Taylor was ahead of those guys at the same age too, how's he going these days?

Worpel has not once exhibited the same physical traits as Dustin Martin, who even as a young player, had some serious acceleration and power through the stoppages. Worpel is not in the same realm, and never will be.

"Never will be" is a little over the top

 

[theBigB]

Hang he showed multiple times throughout the year that he has impressive burst from a stoppage, his strength in and around a contest for a 2nd year player is seriously impressive as well. You are right that not all young promising players go on with it but what he has done in just 2 years has been matched by very few. He doesn't lack the physical qualities to make it as a star in the AFL.

Winning a B&F in his second year is seriously impressive, if he never improves a lick he will be a good 200+ AFL game player.

You don't have to keep trying to sell me on the idea that he's a very promising player. I simply dispute he's a "certain" A-grader.

No you can't

You're entitled to hold onto false hope at your leisure, I can't stop you from doing that.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

You don't have to keep trying to sell me on the idea that he's a very promising player. I simply dispute he's a "certain" A-grader.

You're entitled to hold onto false hope at your leisure, I can't stop you from doing that.

I just wish i had the ability to see the future like you do mate

 

[matey]

Mate are you seriously delusional enough to believe Worpel is even in the same realm as the Bont in terms of talent?

Rhys Palmer also had excellent early career stats, as did guys like Andy Otten, Daniel Rich, James Aish and others. Means nothing in the long-run.

Also, your attempt at trolling is pretty pathetic, because Bont has literally won a premiership in a near-BoG Grand Final performance. One bad game will never change the fact that Bontempelli is a far superior player to Worpel.

Are you saying that winning the rising star is equivalent, on par as wining a clubs B&F?

Read what I posted first and THINK before shooting your mouth off and tell me where I was wrong. But yeah one thing for sure Bontempelli is soft and as a coach playing finals I would designate a player to give it to him every chance you get.

 

[matey]

Bontempelli won AFL best first year player in his first season.
Then he went on to win bestyoung player of the year in the following season.

Please go look at Worpels finals stats.

Edit: I really like Worpel by the way. Think he will be a very good player for a very long time.

That trumps winning a clubs B&F only after 30 odd games in the caper yeah no worries

 

[theBigB]

Are you saying that winning the rising star is equivalent, on par as wining a clubs B&F?

No, I'm simply pointing out that early career form doesn't mean much long-term. I thought it would've been pretty simple grasping that much context.

You want to talk about B&Fs? Bontempelli had won 3, including one in a Premiership year.

Read what I posted first and THINK before shooting your mouth off and tell me where I was wrong. But yeah one thing for sure Bontempelli is soft and as a coach playing finals I would designate a player to give it to him every chance you get.

I don't need to re-read your weak attempts at trolling. Bont won a flag, meanwhile the only finals Worpel has played in were losses. Nothing more needs to be said.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

No, I'm simply pointing out that early career form doesn't mean much long-term. I thought it would've been pretty simple grasping that much context.

You want to talk about B&Fs? Bontempelli had won 3, including one in a Premiership year.


I don't need to re-read your weak attempts at trolling. Bont won a flag, meanwhile the only finals Worpel has played in were losses. Nothing more needs to be said.

Well by the same point in time Bont actually had only played one final and he lost that. He also has 3 B&Fs but had none after two seasons.

So may have to wait and see what the future holds.

 

[hawkman]

No, I'm simply pointing out that early career form doesn't mean much long-term. I thought it would've been pretty simple grasping that much context.

You want to talk about B&Fs? Bontempelli had won 3, including one in a Premiership year.


I don't need to re-read your weak attempts at trolling. Bont won a flag, meanwhile the only finals Worpel has played in were losses. Nothing more needs to be said.

After his 2nd season Bont had only played in a finals loss

 

[matey]

No, I'm simply pointing out that early career form doesn't mean much long-term. I thought it would've been pretty simple grasping that much context.

You want to talk about B&Fs? Bontempelli had won 3, including one in a Premiership year.


I don't need to re-read your weak attempts at trolling. Bont won a flag, meanwhile the only finals Worpel has played in were losses. Nothing more needs to be said.

Thats ridiculous based on your mindset and comparison. Bont hasn’t won a premiership while Worpel has been playing AFL. It’s impossible for Worpel to have 3 B&F’s ...... hello he’s only played 2 seasons but has 1 B&F already.
Let’s see who wins the next premiership or Brownlow Medal and until then you speak as much s##t as I do.

 

[theBigB]

Well by the same point in time Bont actually had only played one final and he lost that. He also has 3 B&Fs but had none after two seasons.

So may have to wait and see what the future holds.

After his 2nd season Bont had only played in a finals loss

You guys are like a broken record with this stuff. Clinging onto early-career form for dear life.

Thats ridiculous based on your mindset and comparison. Bont hasn’t won a premiership while Worpel has been playing AFL. It’s impossible for Worpel to have 3 B&F’s ...... hello he’s only played 2 seasons but has 1 B&F already.

I didn't originally cite B&Fs, you did. You were also dumb enough to call Bontempelli soft in finals, even though he absolutely mauled your team in the 2016 semi. Hell, I didn't even bring Bont into this at all, you did in your endless endeavor to convince people that Worpel is somehow just as talented as the best in the comp.

Let’s see who wins the next premiership or Brownlow Medal and until then you speak as much s##t as I do.

Brownlow medal? The same award Matt Priddis won? This is what you place value in?

Honestly, you're not worth my time. You don't know much about football.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

You guys are like a broken record with this stuff. Clinging onto early-career form for dear life.


I didn't originally cite B&Fs, you did. You were also dumb enough to call Bontempelli soft in finals, even though he absolutely mauled your team in the 2016 semi. Hell, I didn't even bring Bont into this at all, you did.

Brownlow medal? The same award Matt Priddis won? This is what you place value in?

Honestly, you're not worth my time. You don't know much about football.

Yeah we should all know as much about football as you do, like making blanket statements that one of the best young mids in the comp can't continue to improve and become one of the best midfielders in the competition.

 

[Roddy]

Oh boy Oh boy I really really badly hope Worpel doesn't become a true A-Grader.

FIFY

 

[theBigB]

Yeah we should all know as much about football as you do, like making blanket statements that one of the best young mids in the comp can't continue to improve and become one of the best midfielders in the competition.

I made two statements:

1. Worpel is not a certain A grader.
2. Worpel can never be as good as Bontempelli.

 

[Vindicater]

That trumps winning a clubs B&F only after 30 odd games in the caper yeah no worries

Yes. Those awards do trump that because he had to compete against the rest of his AFL peers. Worpel had to beat Ricky Henderson.

Being named in the best 22 under 22 in his first two seasons as well compared to Worpels 1 in his first 2 seasons.

Oh by the way. Worpels statistics in his two finals games (13 disposals and 1.5 clearances with 5.5 clangers per game)

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Yes. Those awards do trump that because he had to compete against the rest of his AFL peers. Worpel had to beat Ricky Henderson.

Being named in the best 22 under 22 in his first two seasons as well compared to Worpels 1 in his first 2 seasons.

Oh by the way. Worpels statistics in his two finals games (13 disposals and 1.5 clearances with 5.5 clangers per game)

Yes he was poor in his 10th and 11th AFL game.

Bont didn't play finals in his first year so it can hardly be used to show he was ahead of him at the same age in that area.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

I made two statements:

1. Worpel is not a certain A grader.
2. Worpel can never be as good as Bontempelli.

Brilliant to know, i like this game.

While we are at it

Bont will never be in the same tier of player as Fyfe or Dusty.

 

[theBigB]

Brilliant to know, i like this game.

While we are at it

Bont will never be in the same tier of player as Fyfe or Dusty.

Well, you have your opinion, the coaches have theirs...

 

[Vindicater]

Yes he was poor in his 10th and 11th AFL game.

Bont didn't play finals in his first year so it can hardly be used to show he was ahead of him at the same age in that area.

Sorry, that part was actually directed at matey because he wanted to say Worpel was better because he did not wilt in finals like Bont did. I was simply showing him that the only time Worpel played finals he wilted. (And your point about his games is valid)

Personally I think Worpel is going to be a 200+ games player who tiptoes the line between very good and elite.

 

[Pessimistic]

Hawks never featured much in AA awards ever

 

[TylerDurden]

Worpel? A-grader?
Nah.

You're in for a rude shock if you don't think Worp will be an A grader. Injury permitting, there's nothing surer.

Would it kill you to admit he's a gun? Just like Bont is. Or Tom Mitchell. All teams have guns, and Worp already is one also.

You keep banging on about flags. You're talking to Hawk fans. We nailed 4 in 8 years if you hadn't noticed. Do you see us pulling our schvanc's over Hodge, Mitchell, Burgoyne, Rioli, Buddy blah blah.

You don't need to talk to us about elite players. We've seen a few.

 

[deanc]

Or you need to trade out very good players to get them picks. An example is us trading out Croad and McPharlin plus a few pick swaps to get the number 1 draft pick. While that turned out alright at the time, it doesn’t guarantee it’s going to work. If memory serves me correct, the hawks went from prelim finalists to runners up of the spoon the following year. Where we stayed bottom 4 until 2005/2006 until we started to climb backup the ladder.

If your not receiving the high end draft picks (top 10) then your options are limited. You can hope for a player that will be good, but unlikely to be truly elite at your pick. You can try and trade up and try to get into the higher end of the draft, by trading players and picks (robbing Peter to pay Paul imo). Or what the hawks are doing, look at trying to get players later on in their careers by trading for them, at bargain prices.

I have not read the entire thread nor do I intend to, but has anyone mentioned the opposing strategy (related to what I've bolded from the above post) which the thread could be easily renamed:

"Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring a bunch of elite young athletes who play footy, but are unknown and untried at AFL level?"

 

[HeHateMe]

Well, you have your opinion, the coaches have theirs...

People like this make bigfooty good reading.

 

[theBigB]

You're in for a rude shock if you don't think Worp will be an A grader. Injury permitting, there's nothing surer.

Would it kill you to admit he's a gun? Just like Bont is. Or Tom Mitchell. All teams have guns, and Worp already is one also.

Maybe if he was a gun, but he isn't. He's a good solid player, just like your Luke Balls, your Mitch Robinsons, your Andrew Swallows and the like.

You keep banging on about flags. You're talking to Hawk fans. We nailed 4 in 8 years if you hadn't noticed. Do you see us pulling our schvanc's over Hodge, Mitchell, Burgoyne, Rioli, Buddy blah blah.

You don't need to talk to us about elite players. We've seen a few.

The only reason I brought any of that up at all is because your fellow Hawthorn supporter matey decided to take a bunch of pot shots at the Bont.

If you guys want to bag any of our players, try to pick someone who didn't destroy your team in the 2016 semi-final.