Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Pessimistic]

So if you go for Carlton , you could not have anything relevant to say on list builds, and if you go for Gold Coast you have no right to say anything on culture ?

You do realize that these big footy fans have not been involved with any decisions made ?

As a mod maybe you should not be saying this stuff. It adds nothing and is very immature

It is relevant when they advocate a strategy which has seen their own teams become second rate, despite getting all the 'elite picks'

 

[chelseacarlton]

Hawks werent sniping, its just that carlton were extremely soft

Totes mate, kinda like how Brad Sewell was soft when Lordo rib tickled him.

 

[blaisee]

It is relevant when they advocate a strategy which has seen their own teams become second rate, despite getting all the 'elite picks'

Over the last 4 years, Hawthorn have slipped out of the top 8 and have not won a final.

Some would say that this is second rate.

 

[Niggles]

Kind of beat one of the best teams of the last two decades in 2008 and Swans were no slouches in 2014.

Weirdly enough I think Richmond have been playing a pretty poor comp by comparison to us. The evened out comp means you don’t get a stupidly good team like the Cats in 08 that you have to beat

You reckon GWS and Adelaide were harder teams to beat ...?

Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.

 

[QuietB]

Over the last 4 years, Hawthorn have slipped out of the top 8 and have not won a final.

Some would say that this is second rate.

I assume you are advocating that Richmond will be premiers forever?

Well for as long as no pesky failed college basketballers get in their way

 

[QuietB]

Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.

Do you think the Hawks in 2008 were better than the 2013-2015 Hawks?

 

[Pessimistic]

Over the last 4 years, Hawthorn have slipped out of the top 8 and have not won a final.

Some would say that this is second rate.

Woah 4 years no flag. It really stings

Anyway for 17 teams each year, you can only judge 'strategy'

 

[KermitJagger]

So if you go for Carlton , you could not have anything relevant to say on list builds, and if you go for Gold Coast you have no right to say anything on culture ?

You do realize that these big footy fans have not been involved with any decisions made ?

As a mod maybe you should not be saying this stuff. It adds nothing and is very immature

It's amazing that you're trying to argue against one of the oldest trueisms in the world just to stay relevant in this thread.

 

[chelseacarlton]

your right. With humour comes laughter. It’s why for the past 20 years between the months of October through to March when a Carlton supporter says or writes that Carlton will be in the top 8 next season, I laugh and laugh and laugh. I just love a good punch line. Long may Carlton supporters sense of humour continue.

*you’re
You are welcome
You are the Donald Trump of this thread, covfefe.

 

[blaisee]

Woah 4 years no flag. It really stings

Anyway for 17 teams each year, you can only judge 'strategy'

I didnt say flags, I said winning a final and sliding down a ladder .

Nice try though

 

[threesixpio]

Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.

Cleared up that GWS and Adelaide were difficult teams to beat in a grannie?

Ahhh nah you didn’t

 

[blaisee]

It's amazing that you're trying to argue against one of the oldest trueisms in the world just to stay relevant in this thread.

what truism is that ?

 

[threesixpio]

Only thing to make this thread better - insecure Tiges supporters

 

[4THAWN]

Will Day should be a handy pick-up if he becomes something more than a general defender. Otherwise, I'll be comparing his progress to Will Gould.

Gould is 98kg while Day is 70kg but ok.

 

[WWSD]

Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

​

Wasn't including the 2008 team. The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up. Apart from the two bolded points you completely failed on.... FA In: Frawley, Simpkin (DFA), Minchington (DFA), Henderson (DFA) FA Out: FRANKLIN, Ellis, Suckling, Young Hawthorn were the team MOST effected by introduction of FA. Draftees take 5-8 years before peak performance, so the affected drafts only really took full effect around the 2016 period - which is why the period 2016-current has been so weak.

 

[RUNVS]

the swans seemed stacked with talent in the under 23 and under category

apparently have top quality academy players next draft too

Two players expected to go in the first round but not guys who would be considered top of the draft. Both are extremely talented but one is small and the other is tiny.

 

[Eternal Schism]

Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.

That's a complete myth.

For premiership players from the 2013, 2014, 2015 flags.

Already on the list in 2008

Max Bailey (2013)
Jarryd Roughead (2013, 2014, 2015)
Jordan Lewis (2013, 2014, 2015)
Sam Mitchell (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brad Sewell (2013)
Grant Birchall (2013, 2014, 2015)
Luke Hodge (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brent Guerra (2013)
Lance Franklin (2013)
Cyril Rioli (2013, 2014, 2015)


Drafted

Ryan Shoenmakers (2015) - Pick 16, 2008 AFL Draft
Liam Shiels (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 34, 2008 AFL Draft
Ben Stratton (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 46, 2009 AFL Draft
Taylor Duryea (2014, 2015) - Pick 69, 2009 AFL Draft
Issac Smith (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 19, 2010 AFL Draft
Paul Puopolo (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 66, 2010 AFL Draft
Bradley Hill (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 33, 2011 AFL Draft


Rookie Listed

Luke Bruest (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 47, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2011 AFL Draft)
Matthew Suckling (2014, 2015) - Pick 81, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2009 AFL Draft)
Will Langford (2014) - Pick 85, 2011 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2013 AFL Draft)


Traded For

Josh Gibson (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Pick 25, 41 for Josh Gibson & Pick 69
Shaun Burgoyne (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Multi way trade Picks 9, 16, 97 & Josh Nay for Shaun Burgoyne.
David Hale (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2010 Trade Period. End of First Round Compensation Pick (Campbell Brown left via Free Agency to GC) & Pick 71 for David Hale & Pick 52
Jack Gunston (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2011 Trade Period. Picks 24, 46 & 64 for Jack Gunston, Picks 52 & 71
Brian Lake (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2012 Trade Period. Picks 21 & 43 for Brian Lake & Pick 27
Matt Spangher (2014) - 2012 Trade Period. Pick 64 for Matt Spangher & Pick 70
Ben McEvoy (2014, 2015) - 2013 Trade Period. Shane Savage & Pick 17 for Ben McEvoy.

Free Agents

Johnathan Simpkin (2013 - Sub) - 2012 Delisted Free Agent
James Frawley (2015) - 2014 Unrestricted Free Agent


In this time frame Hawthorn saw Lance Franklin, Campbell Brown, Clinton Young, Tom Murphy, Xavier Ellis all leave under free agency.

Seems the "Hawthorn threepeat relied on free agency" myth has been busted.

 

[KermitJagger]

what truism is that ?

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Only thing to make this thread better - insecure Tiges supporters

“But but but we iz good now tooo!!! Talk about us pleez!”

I dont even need to take blasee off ignore to know he’d be frothing pretty hard.

 

[QuietB]

Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.

That's a complete myth.

For premiership players from the 2013, 2014, 2015 flags.

Already on the list in 2008

Max Bailey (2013)
Jarryd Roughead (2013, 2014, 2015)
Jordan Lewis (2013, 2014, 2015)
Sam Mitchell (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brad Sewell (2013)
Grant Birchall (2013, 2014, 2015)
Luke Hodge (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brent Guerra (2013)
Lance Franklin (2013)
Cyril Rioli (2013, 2014, 2015)


Drafted

Ryan Shoenmakers (2015) - Pick 16, 2008 AFL Draft
Liam Shiels (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 34, 2008 AFL Draft
Ben Stratton (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 46, 2009 AFL Draft
Taylor Duryea (2014, 2015) - Pick 69, 2009 AFL Draft
Issac Smith (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 19, 2010 AFL Draft
Paul Puopolo (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 66, 2010 AFL Draft
Bradley Hill (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 33, 2011 AFL Draft


Rookie Listed

Luke Bruest (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 47, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2011 AFL Draft)
Matthew Suckling (2014, 2015) - Pick 81, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2009 AFL Draft)
Will Langford (2014) - Pick 85, 2011 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2013 AFL Draft)


Traded For

Josh Gibson (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Pick 25, 41 for Josh Gibson & Pick 69
Shaun Burgoyne (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Multi way trade Picks 9, 16, 97 & Josh Nay for Shaun Burgoyne.
David Hale (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2010 Trade Period. End of First Round Compensation Pick (Campbell Brown left via Free Agency to GC) & Pick 71 for David Hale & Pick 52
Jack Gunston (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2011 Trade Period. Picks 24, 46 & 64 for Jack Gunston, Picks 52 & 71
Brian Lake (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2012 Trade Period. Picks 21 & 43 for Brian Lake & Pick 27
Matt Spangher (2014) - 2012 Trade Period. Pick 64 for Matt Spangher & Pick 70
Ben McEvoy (2014, 2015) - 2013 Trade Period. Shane Savage & Pick 17 for Ben McEvoy.

Free Agents

Johnathan Simpkin (2013 - Sub) - 2012 Delisted Free Agent
James Frawley (2015) - 2014 Unrestricted Free Agent


In this time frame Hawthorn saw Lance Franklin, Campbell Brown, Clinton Young, Tom Murphy, Xavier Ellis all leave under free agency.

Seems the "Hawthorn threepeat relied on free agency" myth has been busted.

That is some brutal take down

Although in Niggles defence there is no way Hawthorn could have done any of it without Simpkin and Frawley

 

[WWSD]

That's a complete myth.

For premiership players from the 2013, 2014, 2015 flags.

Already on the list in 2008

Max Bailey (2013)
Jarryd Roughead (2013, 2014, 2015)
Jordan Lewis (2013, 2014, 2015)
Sam Mitchell (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brad Sewell (2013)
Grant Birchall (2013, 2014, 2015)
Luke Hodge (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brent Guerra (2013)
Lance Franklin (2013)
Cyril Rioli (2013, 2014, 2015)


Drafted

Ryan Shoenmakers (2015) - Pick 16, 2008 AFL Draft
Liam Shiels (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 34, 2008 AFL Draft
Ben Stratton (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 46, 2009 AFL Draft
Taylor Duryea (2014, 2015) - Pick 69, 2009 AFL Draft
Issac Smith (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 19, 2010 AFL Draft
Paul Puopolo (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 66, 2010 AFL Draft
Bradley Hill (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 33, 2011 AFL Draft


Rookie Listed

Luke Bruest (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 47, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2011 AFL Draft)
Matthew Suckling (2014, 2015) - Pick 81, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2009 AFL Draft)
Will Langford (2014) - Pick 85, 2011 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2013 AFL Draft)


Traded For

Josh Gibson (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Pick 25, 41 for Josh Gibson & Pick 69
Shaun Burgoyne (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Multi way trade Picks 9, 16, 97 & Josh Nay for Shaun Burgoyne.
David Hale (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2010 Trade Period. End of First Round Compensation Pick (Campbell Brown left via Free Agency to GC) & Pick 71 for David Hale & Pick 52
Jack Gunston (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2011 Trade Period. Picks 24, 46 & 64 for Jack Gunston, Picks 52 & 71
Brian Lake (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2012 Trade Period. Picks 21 & 43 for Brian Lake & Pick 27
Matt Spangher (2014) - 2012 Trade Period. Pick 64 for Matt Spangher & Pick 70
Ben McEvoy (2014, 2015) - 2013 Trade Period. Shane Savage & Pick 17 for Ben McEvoy.

Free Agents

Johnathan Simpkin (2013 - Sub) - 2012 Delisted Free Agent
James Frawley (2015) - 2014 Unrestricted Free Agent


In this time frame Hawthorn saw Lance Franklin, Campbell Brown, Clinton Young, Tom Murphy, Xavier Ellis all leave under free agency.

Seems the "Hawthorn threepeat relied on free agency" myth has been busted.

Game, set and match.

 

[blaisee]

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

WTF are you on about?

 

[Pessimistic]

Wasn't including the 2008 team.

The team 5-7 years later was kissed on the dick when all the stars aligned. Free agency was new and Hawthorn used it to their advantage. Their core was pretty good and was all at the right age, developed under a great coach and club system. Oh, and the comp was as its weakest in decades due to the 2 new teams taking away all the talent that should have gone to clubs like Richmond making them more competitive around then. Glad to have cleared that up.

I know plenty have had their say on this, but doesn't this refute the thread title? that the elite end of the drafts importance is diminshed?

Yes hawks have taken their luck, but you also need to be a consistenltly well run team.

even in 2001 when they 'got lucky' with the bumper draft, they also traded up, ie finished 4th not 4th last

 

[threesixpio]

That's a complete myth.

For premiership players from the 2013, 2014, 2015 flags.

Already on the list in 2008

Max Bailey (2013)
Jarryd Roughead (2013, 2014, 2015)
Jordan Lewis (2013, 2014, 2015)
Sam Mitchell (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brad Sewell (2013)
Grant Birchall (2013, 2014, 2015)
Luke Hodge (2013, 2014, 2015)
Brent Guerra (2013)
Lance Franklin (2013)
Cyril Rioli (2013, 2014, 2015)


Drafted

Ryan Shoenmakers (2015) - Pick 16, 2008 AFL Draft
Liam Shiels (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 34, 2008 AFL Draft
Ben Stratton (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 46, 2009 AFL Draft
Taylor Duryea (2014, 2015) - Pick 69, 2009 AFL Draft
Issac Smith (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 19, 2010 AFL Draft
Paul Puopolo (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 66, 2010 AFL Draft
Bradley Hill (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 33, 2011 AFL Draft


Rookie Listed

Luke Bruest (2013, 2014, 2015) - Pick 47, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2011 AFL Draft)
Matthew Suckling (2014, 2015) - Pick 81, 2009 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2009 AFL Draft)
Will Langford (2014) - Pick 85, 2011 AFL Rookie Draft (Promoted 2013 AFL Draft)


Traded For

Josh Gibson (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Pick 25, 41 for Josh Gibson & Pick 69
Shaun Burgoyne (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2009 Trade Period. Multi way trade Picks 9, 16, 97 & Josh Nay for Shaun Burgoyne.
David Hale (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2010 Trade Period. End of First Round Compensation Pick (Campbell Brown left via Free Agency to GC) & Pick 71 for David Hale & Pick 52
Jack Gunston (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2011 Trade Period. Picks 24, 46 & 64 for Jack Gunston, Picks 52 & 71
Brian Lake (2013, 2014, 2015) - 2012 Trade Period. Picks 21 & 43 for Brian Lake & Pick 27
Matt Spangher (2014) - 2012 Trade Period. Pick 64 for Matt Spangher & Pick 70
Ben McEvoy (2014, 2015) - 2013 Trade Period. Shane Savage & Pick 17 for Ben McEvoy.

Free Agents

Johnathan Simpkin (2013 - Sub) - 2012 Delisted Free Agent
James Frawley (2015) - 2014 Unrestricted Free Agent


In this time frame Hawthorn saw Lance Franklin, Campbell Brown, Clinton Young, Tom Murphy, Xavier Ellis all leave under free agency.

Seems the "Hawthorn threepeat relied on free agency" myth has been busted.

Awww it’s not fair Lynch went to the Tiges me sad and stuff