Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Pessimistic]

Deep down the Hawk fans know it's a dangerous game they're playing , you only have to look a the Chernobyl like meltdown that happened when Cogs stayed put

They know without a couple of top notch freebies coming along soon they are in trouble

Now if they can nab a good free agent or 2 then they are in business I'd say because they can still bulk up the bottom end with their picks intact

Pretty important they stay ahead of the chasing rebuild teams this year so they have the right message to sell

There was a meltdown when hawks picked buddy and rough instead of tambling. There are significant numbers of hawk posters in the 'because youth' camp

 

[Joao]

I don't rate them long term but I saw enough on the weekend to be a bit bullish for 2020.

 

[Spook]

There is absolutely no way Breust gets a game at Richmond . None
But that is not the point . The point made is that he was the best player in the league in his position . And that is just deluded fanspeak

if that’s the case theN why in 2018 Was Breust an All Australian in his position?

 

[Scotland]

if that’s the case the why in 2018 Was Breust was All Australian in his position

He had a very good season in 2018?

 

[Gralin]

Nah we over looked him.

We still got him a flag in the end though

 

[cogs2hawks]

Richmond definitely have the right to be on their high horse but saying breust is no chance to make your best 22 is simply disrespectful.

 

[Spook]

He had a very good season in 2018?

obviously, but according to blasisee he wouldn’t even make Richmonds team 1 season later.

 

[hk89]

Richmond definitely have the right to be on their high horse but saying breust is no chance to make your best 22 is simply disrespectful.

Calling that opinion "Disrespectful" is far too diplomatic. Unfortunately we're not allowed to accurately label those sort of opinions on this thread, as it is seen as attacking the man. Trolling is apparently fine though, and that's the kindest thing I can say about anyone who would say Breust wouldn't fit into their best 22.

 

[MinerBoy]

There is absolutely no way Breust gets a game at Richmond . None

 

[HairyO]

Top 12 in the country in his draft year? I’d call that elite, personally.

Good players play for 6 or 8 seasons. So there are 80 or 90 elite players in the comp ?

Or is it top 16 or 18 in which case there are 120 elite players ?

Even a look at top 10 picks over the years maybe half end up "elite".

 

[threesixpio]

Good players play for 6 or 8 seasons. So there are 80 or 90 elite players in the comp ?

Or is it top 16 or 18 in which case there are 120 elite players ?

Even a look at top 10 picks over the years maybe half end up "elite".

The weird thing is that Hawthorn hasn’t been that amazing when we have first round picks but have been sublime with later picks and trade ins. Maybe this is slightly colouring Hawthorn posters’ views of what is elite i.e Kieren Lovell was a first rounder but ....wasn’t much chop.

Hopefully Will Day is the exception. Hawthorn always wanted to go this draft with a first rounder and that was because they wanted to marry this years draft.

 

[HairyO]

The weird thing is that Hawthorn hasn’t been that amazing when we have first round picks but have been sublime with later picks and trade ins. Maybe this is slightly colouring Hawthorn posters’ views of what is elite i.e Kieren Lovell was a first rounder but ....wasn’t much chop.

Hopefully Will Day is the exception. Hawthorn always wanted to go this draft with a first rounder and that was because they wanted to marry this years draft.

We have at most 1 top pick. We have many late picks. Playing the odds you can get lucky.

Picking up cheap top picks from other teams makes sense.

 

[owen87]

Good players play for 6 or 8 seasons. So there are 80 or 90 elite players in the comp ?

Probably about right, by position.

No one talks about small defenders when discussing best player in the comp, but there's certainly a handful of guys who are elite in their position.

You've got small - medium - tall KPD and KPF, inside - outside Midfielders and Ruckmen as a starting point. With a varying number of players who'd be elite in that role - Grundy & Gawn are clear 1 / 2 as Ruckmen whilst there's probably a dozen top midfielders depending how you break it out.

That excludes your top percentile of the competition types obviously; e.g. Cunnington is an elite inside player but you wouldn't put him up there with Martin.

A football team isn't exclusively made up of stars.

 

[Scotland]

obviously, but according to blasisee he wouldn’t even make Richmonds team 1 season later.

Firstly, blaisee is an idiot/troll. Breust gets a game in all 18 sides and everyone knows that. Most of Richmond's forward half players are average to good but play within a system. They'd take Breust, Walters, Charlie Cameron, Robbie Gray etc. any day over Shai Bolton or Castagna or whoever. Every single flag side has players that are replaceable.

Secondly, 2018 form only means so much. On 2019 form Breust isn't the best player in his position. He's good, but 34 goals in 22 games and 9th in the B&F of a team that missed finals isn't noteworthy. Off the top of my head Papley, Cameron, De Goey, Walters, Sexton had better years playing similar roles. Even Eddie Betts kicked more goals and he was out of the side at one stage. But Breust has plenty of runs on the board. He kicked 33-57 goals every season for 8 years in a row which would've been 9 if he didn't wait until Round 8 to debut in his first one. Players do slow down over time, but he's probably 2-3 years off that point.

Small forwards tend to perform better in either strong or weak teams. Hawthorn lift and finish 1-6 Breust will get more opportunities and will kick 40+ again without trying. Hover 7-12 and he's a bit in no man's land. Fall into the bottom 6 and he might kick heaps of goals but they won't mean anything. It's just a theory, and it's more about targeted entries than goals kicked.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

There is absolutely no way Breust gets a game at Richmond . None

Only 4 players in Richmond's entire history has kicked more goals than Breust (he went past Royce Hart this year!)

The only small forward ever from Richmond who has kicked more goals retired 37 years ago!

But yes, convince me that the likes of Castagna et al. are vastly superior.

(To everyone else, yes I know Blaisee is an idiot/troll but I still enjoy pointing out the extent of his idiocy )

 

[Scotland]

You thought he was saying Breust, but he was really saying Boo-urns.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Only 4 players in Richmond's entire history has kicked more goals than Breust (he went past Royce Hart this year!)

The only small forward ever from Richmond who has kicked more goals retired 37 years ago!

But yes, convince me that the likes of Castagna et al. are vastly superior.

(To everyone else, yes I know Blaisee is an idiot/troll but I still enjoy pointing out the extent of his idiocy )

Interesting stat
That 4 be Roach, Richo, Bartlett and...?

 

[Scotland]

Titus, Richo, Bartlett, Riewoldt, Roach, Harris, Dyer all have more goals than Breust.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Good players play for 6 or 8 seasons. So there are 80 or 90 elite players in the comp ?

Or is it top 16 or 18 in which case there are 120 elite players ?

Even a look at top 10 picks over the years maybe half end up "elite".

I’m talking about elite draftees. Of course some don’t end up elite - or even decent - senior players.

Doesn’t change the fact they were the country’s elite in their draft year.

 

[Gralin]

Only 4 players in Richmond's entire history has kicked more goals than Breust (he went past Royce Hart this year!)

The only small forward ever from Richmond who has kicked more goals retired 37 years ago!

But yes, convince me that the likes of Castagna et al. are vastly superior.

(To everyone else, yes I know Blaisee is an idiot/troll but I still enjoy pointing out the extent of his idiocy )

You might want to check that I count 7

 

[Scotland]

For those playing at home 4 forwards from Richmond have kicked more goals than Luke Breust since 1965, not 1908.

In fairness to Breust if you move it to 1990 (to be fair he was pretty disappointing before that) he's only behind Richo and Shermanator.

 

[Back One Out]

Richmond definitely have the right to be on their high horse but saying breust is no chance to make your best 22 is simply disrespectful.

Breust is the best tackling, smartest small forward in the comp
Nobody has done it better over the past 8 seasons (aside from Cyril pre-2018)


Even just the past 2 seasons....

• No small forward has kicked more goals.
• None have had more goals + assists.
• None have handballed more unselfishly & more effectively than Breust.
• McDonald-Tipungwuti is the only forward to have tackled more (Tippa 198, Breust 184, Poppy 183, J.Cripps 161)

These guys are tackling machines with twice as many tackles as most of the other small forwards.
Breust however provides WAY MORE offense than those other three.



blaisee , I know you wear the crown of Richmond Village Idiot quite proudly, but here's a stat you might understand.

Richmond's all-time leading goalkickers with Luke Breust's stats in there to show some perspective.
970 - Jack Titus [18 seasons]
800 - Matt Richardson [17 seasons]
778 - Kevin Bartlett [19 seasons]
631 - Jack Riewoldt [13 seasons]
607 - Michael Roach [13 seasons]
548 - Dick Harris [11 seasons]
443 - Jack Dyer [19 seasons]
392 - Luke Breust [9 seasons at Hawthorn]
369 - Royce Hart [11 seasons]
351 - Ray Poulter [11 seasons]
347 - Jeff Hogg [11 seasons inc. 3 with Fitzroy]
344 - Dale Weightman [16 seasons]
323 - David Cloke [18 seasons inc. 6 with Collingwood]
275 - Perce Bentley [16 seasons]
250 - Dustin Martin [10 seasons]

 

[Pessimistic]

Punky is remarkably resilient. Looking at that list how many seasons more can he play?

 

[TylerDurden]

Has this thread degenerated to people questioning the quality of Breust? Right.

 

[Gralin]

Has this thread degenerated to people questioning the quality of Breust? Right.

Happens on the Hawks board, not surprising that people who pay less attention to his game do as well