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Can Pies beat Dees?

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S_T said:
I recognise it as a danger game becuase:-

1. I have TWO eyes and acknowledge that Collingwood have been playing well.

2. I have TWO eyes and acknowledge that Melbourne could play crap, despite their recent form. Our focus may be on playing W.C. the following week.

The point of my post was to point out to many Collingwood supporters that maybe Collingwood doesn't have the best backline and forwardline in the league and that maybe Didak isn't the best small forward in the league.
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well you have ruined my day S_T....i thought Didak had the Brownlow and Coleman wrapped up, and he was he best player in the comp....i also thought the Pies would easily outscore the Demons this week cos our forwardline and backline are just so superb :rolleyes:

i also realise we were bottom of the ladder 2 weeks ago, and that it is only the totally inept, naive supporters who think what you have just said

keep your head down for a bit newbie, trolling ******** like that, with your apparent superior knowledge, won t get you far at all
 
I'm not trolling. I am offering an alternate view to some being posted.

Hotpie claimed "Our defence is the best in the AFL."
Coin Toss "Trust me on this.. Our back line > Melbourne's forward line."
Captain Cloke "their forward line is as good as negated."
diehard pie "Best defence vs the best attack in my opinion. Our forwards are better than their defence so we should be able to put a fair score on the board."

The FACTS suggest otherwise.

And cut the arrogant "newbie" line. The amount of posts has nothing to do with anything. I am entitled like anyone else to offer an arguement.
 

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S_T said:
Some facts guys:-

I will be kind and only look at the period (short though it is) that Collingwood have been playing well.

Last 3 weeks results

Melbourne 3W-0L Pts F: 357 Pts A: 246 145.0%
Collingwood 3W-0L Pts F: 347 Pts A: 271 128.0%

Therefore:-
- Melbourne's defence looks to be in pretty good shape.
- Melbourne's forwardline looks to be in pretty good shape.
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don't you think your comparison (and hence your argument) is a bit simplistic? the matches were played against different opponents after all.
 
S_T said:
Last 3 weeks results

Melbourne 3W-0L Pts F: 357 Pts A: 246 145.0%
Collingwood 3W-0L Pts F: 347 Pts A: 271 128.0%
Click to expand...

Collingwood played West Coast Hawthorn and Geelong
Melbourne played Carlton Richmond Kangaroos

Who had the tougher games?
 
S_T said:
I'm not trolling. I am offering an alternate view to some being posted.

Hotpie claimed "Our defence is the best in the AFL."
Coin Toss "Trust me on this.. Our back line > Melbourne's forward line."
Captain Cloke "their forward line is as good as negated."
diehard pie "Best defence vs the best attack in my opinion. Our forwards are better than their defence so we should be able to put a fair score on the board."

The FACTS suggest otherwise.

And cut the arrogant "newbie" line. The amount of posts has nothing to do with anything. I am entitled like anyone else to offer an arguement.
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it is clear from your comparison of the previous three games that your facts are distorted. the same can be said that you don't have any good defenders to cover our forwards in Tarrant, Cloke, Didak, Caracella, etc
 
it was a simpletons view to it.....sure it gives you a heads up on their current form, but they played 3 different opponents.....maybe if they had played the same three teams the comparison could have worked

and i think its fair to say collingwood's defence is in pretty good shape
and collingwood's attack is in pretty good shape, looking at the last three games :rolleyes:
 
I have no problem with you saying that Collingwood's defense and attack are in pretty fair shape. They are, but the results from the last 3 weeks show that so is Melbourne's (something that many of your supporters have ignored).

The results from the whole season show a completly different story, but you already know that.

Taking into account the different opponents over the last few weeks show the teams a very evenly placed with regard to attack and defence.

Melbourne has a more multi-pronged attack (many players kicking 5+ goals in a game), which will stretch any backline and they are kicking a very high percentage of goals vs. entries into the forward 50. When we beat Geelong, they had more inside 50's and heaps more possies.

The only way Collingwood will beat us is if you can SMASH us in the midfield (just like St Kilda, Fremantle and Hawthorn did). If you only break even, Melbourne will win.
 
Geelong and WCE (even without Judd) have better mids than Melbourne, and we didn't smash them (in fact we got half smashed by Geelong at times and our key midfielders in Johnson, Burns and Licuria had less than 30 touches between them against WCE). Hawthorn smashed us in the midfield too, and their midfield is just as dangerous as Melbournes, Bateman had a usefull game and Craford and Mitchell had blinders and Hodge again wrapped up 30+ possesions.
So if our midfield breaks even it is a huge win for us.
This won't be won in any one area it will be won by simply who has the better players on the day, which is why Melbourne would be favorites.

Also interesting is that Robertson is looking forward to playing on Jimmy Clement. He says he will have to play further up the ground to stop him setting up play in defence. Maxwell might take Robertson anyway but this is not the way to play Clement. He will peel off Robertson and get heaps of damaging possesions. The best way to nullify Clement is to somehow match him up against a big gorrila at FB or a very very quick elusive forward who can take marks on the lead, and with our lack of injuries in defence this ain't gonna happen.
 
Ooze I suggest you think before you post as well.
O'Bree is in the top 5 of the AFL for tackles.
Caracella is in the top 5 of Collingwood for hard ball gets.
Didak can certainly mix it with the best of them.
If you go in with a plan to rough up Carra and Dids you will get burned, just play them like they are. Campbell Brown was top busy forearming Caracella and Osbourne just wanted to punch on with Didak. Unfortunatly for them they ended up getting 9 goals kicked on them.
 
S_T said:
Melbourne has a more multi-pronged attack (many players kicking 5+ goals in a game), which will stretch any backline and they are kicking a very high percentage of goals vs. entries into the forward 50. When we beat Geelong, they had more inside 50's and heaps more possies.

The only way Collingwood will beat us is if you can SMASH us in the midfield (just like St Kilda, Fremantle and Hawthorn did). If you only break even, Melbourne will win.
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We have a multi-pronged attack too. Tarrant, Caracella and Didak have all had multiple games where they've kicked 4/5 goals, while Travis Cloke and Rusling have shown they are capable of kicking multiples.

I've already outlined why I think it might be tough for your backline to match up on our forward line.

As for the comment about the midfield, I think you overrate your forward line a little. We get a large amount of rebound from there, and manage to keep players from getting too many shots at goal.

Neitz is Presti's bitch, history has shown that. He's kicked 6 goals in the last 5 games against Presti, and 3 of those were last when we were literally the walking wounded, and it was Presti's first game back from a 5 week injury. Before last year, it had been 2 clean sheets in a row for Presti on Neitz.

Then there's Robertson or Yze. One of them will be beaten by Clement. That's not in doubt, they usually score their goals from getting a lesser defender, and most Melbourne fans agree with that. Rarely do they actually beat top notch defenders, and Clement might be the best in the league right now. One of them may get a few goals, but it will be interesting to see what Malthouse does about the other, probably Nick Maxwell, who's quickly becoming an underrated young defender.

Brad Miller may be the worst goal-kicking CHF in the league, so he's not a factor in terms of scoring. I'd put Wakelin on him, because Wakes isn't going to be intimidated by Miller at all, and he's pretty good at running off a player and providing rebound, which whoever plays on Miller will probably have to try and do.

I'd say Ben Johnson will be put on Davey, Ben Johnson is damn quick himself, and obviously has a massive mental advantage on Davey, who fades in and out of games like no other.

It's not that we think we're better than Melbourne, it's that we believe we match up very well on them.
 

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S_T said:
I recognise it as a danger game becuase:-

1. I have TWO eyes and acknowledge that Collingwood have been playing well.

2. I have TWO eyes and acknowledge that Melbourne could play crap, despite their recent form. Our focus may be on playing W.C. the following week.

The point of my post was to point out to many Collingwood supporters that maybe Collingwood doesn't have the best backline and forwardline in the league and that maybe Didak isn't the best small forward in the league.
Click to expand...
You know typing select word in CAPITALS doesn't win you arguments.

No doubt if we were to get up, you'd have "played crap". When we win every oppo supporter says that!

Did anyone here say Didak was the best small forward in the comp? I don't remember seeing that with my TWO eyes!!
 
hotpie said:
Collingwood played West Coast Hawthorn and Geelong
Melbourne played Carlton Richmond Kangaroos

Who had the tougher games?
Click to expand...

Just wanted to bring this post up again as the demons fool seems to have ignored it

They have scored 10 more points than us? Against 2 of the worst defences in the league? Whilst we have played the best team and the best defence in the league during that time?

Their defence has held their opponents to 25 less points than ours has? Right, and someone tell me, do the Kangaroos have a forward line? Carlton and Richmond have 1 man forward lines and their full forwards suited Nicho, there is NO ONE at Collingwood that Nicho could beat, so there goes that argument :rolleyes:
 
eddiesmith, I've already conceeded that we had different opponents. In my last post I said

"Taking into account the different opponents over the last few weeks show the teams a very evenly placed with regard to attack and defence."

Go and find the stats for Tarrant vs. Nicho in the times they have played on each other. I have heard second hand that the only time they played on each other, it was pretty even. Just interested.
 

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Actually Taz did quite well in 2000 and not as good in 2001, but he took the real Mark Of the Year that day

Dont know the opponents but
2000- 9 kicks, 9 marks, 5 handballs, 4 goals
2001- 8 kicks, 6 marks, 2 handballs, 2 goals, 1 behind, 2 tackles
2002- 11 kicks, 5 marks, 3 handballs, 7 goals, 1 behind, 2 tackles
2003- 17 kicks, 15 marks, 1 handball, 3 goals, 2 behinds, 5 tackles.
 
Been having a look at matchups and things are very interesting. No clear cut choices for Green (Morrison? Swan?) and Davey (Johnson? Lockyer?)

Things will get interesting if they swing Miller forward with Neitz and Holland, I imagine Presti and Wakes will take the former and with Clement on Robertson, Maxwell may be the man.

Licuria I imagine will take Bruce and Holland on Johnstone.

Up forward I'm sure they'll try a few on Taz, either of Ferguson or Rivers if they are smart or Bizzell or Nicholson if they want to be cut up as Taz continues on in his roaming role at half forward. Nicholson really has no match up, will be interesting if he ends up taking Rusling at full back as he will probably beat Rusling in a wrestle, thats if he gets within 5 metres of him on the lead. Youd expect the Brown's, Whelans and McDonald's (is he playing?) to take Didak, Caracella and co. Cloke will be left with Bizzell perhaps. Im sure if we swing C Cloke up forward they may be forced to put Miller back there for a suitable matchup. Wouldn't be suprised if we play Fraser up forward a bit aswell with Egan out.

Intriguing game, I was more worried about Geelong personally but Melbourne is capable of turning it on if we give them plenty of room.
 
I have been losing sleep lately - not because I am worried about Melbourne on Monday, but quite the contrary.
I just can't stop thinking how awesome we are in attack, defence AND the midfield.
I just can't get the Rhyce Shaw shepherd on Junkie Jnr to allow Tarks to run off with the footy, out of my head. So too does the deft Travis tap-on in traffic, heading goalward.
Melbourne will be just another step in our ladder climb and the premiership.
:D
 
grayza said:
Johnno had a corkie and will be back this week
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correct, been having troubled with that thigh all year

also had two concussions this year on top of a couple last year and missed quite a few games as a result

having a bit of an interupted year, lets hopes hes back on track monday :)
 
I hope there are no Collingwood supporters who think we are going to lose this week.
If we play like we have the last 3 weeks, we should finally win by more than 4 goals and kick more than 18 for the match.
I can't ****** wait!!!
PERCENTAGE PIES!!! :mad:
 

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