Can Sydney keep Warner and avoid more trade bans?

[CharlieMortdecai]

It wouldn't hurt you to have just the smallest idea of the situation you're discussing.

Fair call, but do you seriously think Membrey wanted to leave because of a desperate desire to go back to Victoria, or because he played one solitary game, as a late call-up when Franklin was injured?

 

[.Shotties.]

Fair call, but do you seriously think Membrey wanted to leave because of a desperate desire to go back to Victoria, or because he played one solitary game, as a late call-up when Franklin was injured?

I think it definitely formed part of it, especially given his mental health issues which were part of the reason he was delisted instead of sent into the draft.

Again, though, your consistent reframing of arguments is pretty poor form.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

your consistent reframing of arguments

What does this mean?

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

I think it definitely formed part of it, especially given his mental health issues which were part of the reason he was delisted instead of sent into the draft.

Again, though, your consistent reframing of arguments is pretty poor form.

The more I read about it, the more I don't think homesickness had anything to do with it:

If not for one particular circumstance, Membrey would still be a Swan.

“At the end of 2014 Goodesy decided to play on,” Membrey tells foxfooty.com.au.

“I loved my time up there and made some really good friends. I was also really good friends with him and was happy for him. But at that point there were a few people saying ‘he needs an opportunity’ and I wanted a chance too.

 

[.Shotties.]

What does this mean?

That you continually strawman or reframe what was said in order to make your point.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

That you continually strawman or reframe what was said in order to make your point.

If you can point out my strawman arguments, that'd be grand.

If you are talking about sthmelb_dimmies list of Swans who have left due to go-home factor, I didn't reframe anything. I took the advice of BloodySwan and educated myself about the nature of those departures. When I did, I found it hard to square it with the idea of those players leaving due to homesickness.

Tim Membrey says he loved his time at the Swans but wasn't getting an opportunity and his decision to leave was based on Adam Goodes re-signing.

Tom Mitchell is in genuine contract negotiations throughout the 2016 season, until it becomes apparent the Swans can't meet his demands for coin while carrying the Tippet and Franklin contracts.

Newman was "out of favour and out of contract". George Hewett is a South Australian, who ended up at Carlton.

Not every interstate player that leaves is due to go-home factor. In a few cases, the strength of the Swans was an issue, with players leaving for more opportunity. Something that happens frequently to fringe players at all strong clubs.

 

[Eshay187]

Even with Blakey’s background, were there no elite AFL programs in NSW his life would have gone very differently.

Tall, fast coordinated kid with “good pedigree” would have immediately been offered scholarships to Joeys, Riverview, Kings, Scott’s, take your pick.

What would his parents do? Turn them down and get him to play weekend afl for a local club?

All these schools have elite rugby union pathway. Only Riverview has a weekend afl team.

He would have played firsts at 15, and if he’s lucky end up playing wing for ACT Brumbies, or playing for a rugby league team as nowadays the elite union private schools are a poaching ground for league.

Point being, even with his dad, if he’s living in NSW there is basically no pathway to elite AFL OTHER than the academies.

Not even worth discussing Heeney, being from Newcastle where AFL is probably said mentioned more as a homophobic slur than it is a sporting league.

I get that it annoys Victorians that Sydney is a well run club that is currently successful, but either NSW has pathways to develop elite young talent, or the biggest market in Australia has teams that are 90% foreigners, constantly wanting to “go home”.

Also, just tell your teams to put a bid in earlier, it’s not that hard. Swans did it to GWS. We wouldn’t have Gulden if one of your genius recruiters selected him before the 30s.

Huge sore loser vibes “waaa, their team is better than mine, it must be cheating, it can’t be that we’re a rabble”

 

[BloodySwan]

If you can point out my strawman arguments, that'd be grand.

If you are talking about sthmelb_dimmies list of Swans who have left due to go-home factor, I didn't reframe anything. I took the advice of BloodySwan and educated myself about the nature of those departures. When I did, I found it hard to square it with the idea of those players leaving due to homesickness.

Tim Membrey says he loved his time at the Swans but wasn't getting an opportunity and his decision to leave was based on Adam Goodes re-signing.

Tom Mitchell is in genuine contract negotiations throughout the 2016 season, until it becomes apparent the Swans can't meet his demands for coin while carrying the Tippet and Franklin contracts.

Newman was "out of favour and out of contract". George Hewett is a South Australian, who ended up at Carlton.

Not every interstate player that leaves is due to go-home factor. In a few cases, the strength of the Swans was an issue, with players leaving for more opportunity. Something that happens frequently to fringe players at all strong clubs.

Learn what strawman argument is before trying to talk to your nonsense points.

Again, try educating yourself on why academies were even introduced before arguing about them.

All the info is very available to you

 

[BloodySwan]

Even with Blakey’s background, were there no elite AFL programs in NSW his life would have gone very differently.

Tall, fast coordinated kid with “good pedigree” would have immediately been offered scholarships to Joeys, Riverview, Kings, Scott’s, take your pick.

What would his parents do? Turn them down and get him to play weekend afl for a local club?

All these schools have elite rugby union pathway. Only Riverview has a weekend afl team.

He would have played firsts at 15, and if he’s lucky end up playing wing for ACT Brumbies, or playing for a rugby league team as nowadays the elite union private schools are a poaching ground for league.

Point being, even with his dad, if he’s living in NSW there is basically no pathway to elite AFL OTHER than the academies.

Not even worth discussing Heeney, being from Newcastle where AFL is probably said mentioned more as a homophobic slur than it is a sporting league.

I get that it annoys Victorians that Sydney is a well run club that is currently successful, but either NSW has pathways to develop elite young talent, or the biggest market in Australia has teams that are 90% foreigners, constantly wanting to “go home”.

Also, just tell your teams to put a bid in earlier, it’s not that hard. Swans did it to GWS. We wouldn’t have Gulden if one of your genius recruiters selected him before the 30s.

Huge sore loser vibes “waaa, their team is better than mine, it must be cheating, it can’t be that we’re a rabble”

Apparently Blakey is the first talented player to ever see AFL in NSW

All it takes is to become an AFL footballer is for them to know what the game is and BAM! Top 10 pick!

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Learn what strawman argument is before trying to talk to your nonsense points.

Again, try educating yourself on why academies were even introduced before arguing about them.

All the info is very available to you

The info is not very available. Not even Swans supporters can tell me how much money their academy costs, or what the split of funding between QBE and the Swans Foundation is. I cannot even find the Swans Foundation Annual Report, which is weird there must be one somewhere.

As to the straw man issue, the wikipedia definition seems as good as any: "refuting an argument different from the one under discussion". If you mean I am debating the issue of draft concessions, when the thread topic is the insane proposition that the AFL will somehow punish the Swans for signing another contract with Chad Warner, then yes, guilty as charged. Although it wasn't actually me who introduced academies and draft concessions to the thread, I just joined in for the ride.

 

[.Shotties.]

The info is not very available. Not even Swans supporters can tell me how much money their academy costs, or what the split of funding between QBE and the Swans Foundation is.

Which club, at any point, outlines the spread of money to the level you seem to want?

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Even with Blakey’s background, were there no elite AFL programs in NSW his life would have gone very differently.

Tall, fast coordinated kid with “good pedigree” would have immediately been offered scholarships to Joeys, Riverview, Kings, Scott’s, take your pick.

What would his parents do? Turn them down and get him to play weekend afl for a local club?

All these schools have elite rugby union pathway. Only Riverview has a weekend afl team.

He would have played firsts at 15, and if he’s lucky end up playing wing for ACT Brumbies, or playing for a rugby league team as nowadays the elite union private schools are a poaching ground for league.

Point being, even with his dad, if he’s living in NSW there is basically no pathway to elite AFL OTHER than the academies.

Not even worth discussing Heeney, being from Newcastle where AFL is probably said mentioned more as a homophobic slur than it is a sporting league.

I get that it annoys Victorians that Sydney is a well run club that is currently successful, but either NSW has pathways to develop elite young talent, or the biggest market in Australia has teams that are 90% foreigners, constantly wanting to “go home”.

Also, just tell your teams to put a bid in earlier, it’s not that hard. Swans did it to GWS. We wouldn’t have Gulden if one of your genius recruiters selected him before the 30s.

Huge sore loser vibes “waaa, their team is better than mine, it must be cheating, it can’t be that we’re a rabble”

Can we not have academies and elite pathways without draft concessions?

 

[BloodySwan]

The info is not very available. Not even Swans supporters can tell me how much money their academy costs, or what the split of funding between QBE and the Swans Foundation is. I cannot even find the Swans Foundation Annual Report, which is weird there must be one somewhere.

As to the straw man issue, the wikipedia definition seems as good as any: "refuting an argument different from the one under discussion". If you mean I am debating the issue of draft concessions, when the thread topic is the insane proposition that the AFL will somehow punish the Swans for signing another contract with Chad Warner, then yes, guilty as charged. Although it wasn't actually me who introduced academies and draft concessions to the thread, I just joined in for the ride.

Man you didn't even bother finishing the sentence from wikipedia let alone the page

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Man you didn't even bother finishing the sentence from wikipedia let alone the page

You think it adds much to include the words "without recognizing or acknowledging the distinction"?

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Which club, at any point, outlines the spread of money to the level you seem to want?

Most clubs don't have significant football department expenditure that is outside the soft cap.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

What trade ban?? What is op on about

 

[.Shotties.]

Most clubs don't have significant football department expenditure that is outside the soft cap.

Wild that the cost of training hundreds of 11 and 12 year olds doesn't fall under direct football expenditure.

Anyway, go pull up North's NGA numbers and post them. Let's see how that money is spread and we can assume it's roughly the same for the Swans.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Can we not have academies and elite pathways without draft concessions?

Not when you are the sydney swans, no.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Wild that the cost of training hundreds of 11 and 12 year olds doesn't fall under direct football expenditure.

Anyway, go pull up North's NGA numbers and post them. Let's see how that money is spread and we can assume it's roughly the same for the Swans.

Question: how much do you believe the sydney swans academy kids have contributed to the teams current success?? And do you feel you would be this successful without it??

 

[Philhawk]

Also, just tell your teams to put a bid in earlier, it’s not that hard. Swans did it to GWS. We wouldn’t have Gulden if one of your genius recruiters selected him before the 30s.

I find this argument in particular the most mind numbing stupid one of the lot.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I find this argument in particular the most mind numbing stupid one of the lot.

Yes... Doesnt matter where a club bidded, they would havd just used a bunch of picks in the 30’s and 40’s for a top ten pick.

 

[.Shotties.]

I find this argument in particular the most mind numbing stupid one of the lot.

I liked when you said the other clubs funded the academy then spent a number of posts being unable to different between the academy and the Swans Foundation.

 

[Philhawk]

I liked when you said the other clubs funded the academy then spent a number of posts being unable to different between the academy and the Swans Foundation.

You still going on about this? How embarrassing for you that you still can’t even explain the source of the
Academy you’re rorting.

I’ll make it even clearer for you on distributions. Other big clubs are funding your absurdly high distributions.

The sheer victim mentality from the fact this thread was started by a swans fan who has then seen Swans fans attempt to defend these absurd draft concessions under the proviso of “let’s help kids kids stay in the state” is laughable.

 

[.Shotties.]

You still going on about this?

Absolutely, it's hilarious. You were so worked up by something you were so wildly incorrect on and even now you can't just admit you cooked it

I’ll make it even clearer for you on distributions. Other big clubs are funding your absurdly high distributions.

This isn't what you said, though, is it? You spent multiple posts saying that the academy / foundation was funded by inequalities in distributions from other teams. Neither of those are true.

Are you able to just say you completely cooked that or are you going to try to misdirect again?

 

[Philhawk]

Absolutely, it's hilarious. You were so worked up by something you were so wildly incorrect on and even now you can't just admit you cooked it


This isn't what you said, though, is it? You spent multiple posts saying that the academy / foundation was funded by inequalities in distributions from other teams. Neither of those are true.

Are you able to just say you completely cooked that or are you going to try to misdirect again?

I’m so sorry that you yourself are so worked up into a tizz that even now, you have NFI how your own academy is funded.

Im guessing you’re still madly googling to find the definition of a coterie group.