Can Sydney keep Warner and avoid more trade bans?

[geelong_crazy26]

Funnily enough, neither do we.

In the past there have been ambassador payments and cola.

To make my position clear, i am not anti academies, i am simply against one club having such exclusive access to a pool of talent like that.

Everyone should be granted the same access to invest and grow the game through academies in NSW. Together with the investment it would crush rugby long term

 

[.Shotties.]

In the past there have been ambassador payments and cola.

Not really relevant now, though is it?

To make my position clear, i am not anti academies, i am simply against one club having such exclusive access to a pool of talent like that.

Very noble of you.

Everyone should be granted the same access to invest and grow the game through academies in NSW. Together with the investment it would crush rugby long term

Do you remember the NSW rookie program? How much effort did the clubs put into establishing larger talent pools then?

In any case, why not focus on developing the talent eligible for your academy? I mean, it's not the powerhouse of the Shoalhaven or Hunter valley but surely you guys could make the area around Geelong work.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Not really relevant now, though is it?


Very noble of you.


Do you remember the NSW rookie program? How much effort did the clubs put into establishing larger talent pools then?

In any case, why not focus on developing the talent eligible for your academy? I mean, it's not the powerhouse of the Shoalhaven or Hunter valley but surely you guys could make the area around Geelong work.

If sydney was given a geographic like the geelong NGA one your club would invest as much as we have in it, and i imagine if we were given an erea as large and vast as sydney have access to we would invest what sydney have also.

If you wish to make the draft more equitable and reduce northern academy kids to only bids outside the top 40 like everyone elses NGA’s... Lets see how interested in growing the game sydney also is at that point

 

[threesixpio]

VERY tough being Sydney. Perks, steal Buddy etc

But still no flaggy waggies

 

[.Shotties.]

If sydney was given a geographic like the geelong NGA one your club would invest as much as we have in it, and i imagine if we were given an erea as large and vast as sydney have access to we would invest what sydney have also.

If only we had a previous example of what Geelong would do if they had free developmental reign over the whole of NSW and could take the fruit of their work for a rookie pick.

 

[FootyLad0]

If only we had a previous example of what Geelong would do if they had free developmental reign over the whole of NSW and could take the fruit of their work for a rookie pick.

I mean he was a father son pick but I digress, we were lucky that the system was the way it was.

All 3 things (F/S, NGA and Northern Academies) should exist…teams should just have to pay up to use them.
Doesn’t matter the round, you must use a pick within 10 spots of the bid to match or tough shit.

 

[.Shotties.]

I mean he was a father son pick but I digress, we were lucky that the system was the way it was.

Que?

 

[FootyLad0]

Que?

Sorry I thought you meant Hawkins with the “fruit of their work with a rookie pick” lol

 

[Walter H White]

It’s an uncomfortable reality for the vIc BiAs types that Vic clubs like the Bulldogs and Saints actually never get to play a home final on our home ground. We have to play them at the MCG, a ground the Dogs play on less than the Swans. And we share our “home ground” with three other sides that we have to play “home games” against there. Just amazing, so much juicy bias in our favour.

Yeah, and the Swans always pull big crowds in Melbourne so it's not like they're really any worse off than a non-MCG tenant VIC team.

The advantages to the MCG tenant teams are huge though.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

If you can point out my strawman arguments, that'd be grand.

If you are talking about sthmelb_dimmies list of Swans who have left due to go-home factor, I didn't reframe anything. I took the advice of BloodySwan and educated myself about the nature of those departures. When I did, I found it hard to square it with the idea of those players leaving due to homesickness.

Tim Membrey says he loved his time at the Swans but wasn't getting an opportunity and his decision to leave was based on Adam Goodes re-signing.

Tom Mitchell is in genuine contract negotiations throughout the 2016 season, until it becomes apparent the Swans can't meet his demands for coin while carrying the Tippet and Franklin contracts.

Newman was "out of favour and out of contract". George Hewett is a South Australian, who ended up at Carlton.

Not every interstate player that leaves is due to go-home factor. In a few cases, the strength of the Swans was an issue, with players leaving for more opportunity. Something that happens frequently to fringe players at all strong clubs.

If you're so convinced theres no go-home disadvantage for non victorian clubs, lets compare that list of ex-Swans active on interstate (exNSW) lists, to what North has exported:

Jason Horne-Francis

oh, is that it? Why aren't North losing players to interstate clubs?

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

We have to play them at the MCG, a ground the Dogs play on less than the Swans.

This is bullshit.

Going back to 2000, Dogs play on the MCG (excl finals) more than the Swans. 62 Dogs v 57 Swans. Just depends on your time domain

 

[TiAn_]

This is bullshit.

Going back to 2000, Dogs play on the MCG (excl finals) more than the Swans. 62 Dogs v 57 Swans. Just depends on your time domain

Hahaha “bullshit”…

H&A games at the MCG since 2010:

Swans: 35
Bulldogs: 28

Having to go back 25 years to get thee result you want is hilarious. Why don’t we go back far enough to count games at the Lake Oval while we’re at it.

Even when we beat you in the 2016 GF we’d only played at the MCG twice that season, same as the Swans. Same in 2015.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

Hahaha “bullshit”…

H&A games at the MCG since 2010:

Swans: 35
Bulldogs: 28

Having to go back 25 years to get thee result you want is hilarious. Why don’t we go back far enough to count games at the Lake Oval while we’re at it.

Even when we beat you in the 2016 GF we’d only played at the MCG twice that season, same as the Swans. Same in 2015.

2000 is a fair comparison because thats when Footscray moved home ground to Docklands.


Why push your point when this is clearly rubbish. Want me to go back further?

 

[Maddo11]

It took 20+ years of assistance to hand Sydney a flag, give them time.

Meanwhile Brisbane threepeated with less help for less time than Sydney.

Didn't the lions also have an inflated salary cap that got nerfed after they won their flags?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

If you're so convinced theres no go-home disadvantage for non victorian clubs, lets compare that list of ex-Swans active on interstate (exNSW) lists, to what North has exported:

Jason Horne-Francis

oh, is that it? Why aren't North losing players to interstate clubs?

How many players have in recent times left sydney due to the go home factor??

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

How many players have in recent times left sydney due to the go home factor??

At least 4 that are still active on AFL senior lists:

Gary Rohan (2018)
“Gary expressed to us his desire to get back to Victoria during the trade period to be closer to his family,” Harley said.
https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/258600/rohan-finds-new-home

Nick Newman (2018)
“To be able to come back here at 25 and settle down a little bit more, being back around family, I think I needed that change of environment.”
https://www.afl.com.au/news/1037102...-carlton-blue-nic-newman-on-a-path-to-the-top

Jordan Dawson (2021)
“Sydney believe they were short-changed in the trade they settled on with Adelaide over a deal for Jordan Dawson, who was today granted his wish to return home to South Australia.”
https://www.nine.com.au/sport/afl/t...ws-deal-charlie-gardiner-20211013-p5ivt8.html

Tom Mitchell (2016)
“But Mitchell was set on a move to Melbourne to be closer to family.”
https://www.afl.com.au/news/135867/how-tom-mitchell-became-a-trade-bargain

 

[geelong_crazy26]

At least 4 that are still active on AFL senior lists:

Gary Rohan (2018)
“Gary expressed to us his desire to get back to Victoria during the trade period to be closer to his family,” Harley said.
https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/258600/rohan-finds-new-home

Nick Newman (2018)
“To be able to come back here at 25 and settle down a little bit more, being back around family, I think I needed that change of environment.”
https://www.afl.com.au/news/1037102...-carlton-blue-nic-newman-on-a-path-to-the-top

Jordan Dawson (2021)
“Sydney believe they were short-changed in the trade they settled on with Adelaide over a deal for Jordan Dawson, who was today granted his wish to return home to South Australia.”
https://www.nine.com.au/sport/afl/t...ws-deal-charlie-gardiner-20211013-p5ivt8.html

Tom Mitchell (2016)
“But Mitchell was set on a move to Melbourne to be closer to family.”
https://www.afl.com.au/news/135867/how-tom-mitchell-became-a-trade-bargain

So you have lost four players in 8 years which is just like alot of other clubs.

I also remember mitchell being disgruntled being played in a forward pocket alot and got offered more money at the hawks.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

So you have lost four players in 8 years which is just like alot of other clubs.

I also remember mitchell being disgruntled being played in a forward pocket alot and got offered more money at the hawks.

Whats geelongs similar list of exports look like

 

[TiAn_]

2000 is a fair comparison because thats when Footscray moved home ground to Docklands.


Why push your point when this is clearly rubbish. Want me to go back further?
View attachment 2033410

lolll notice how on your stupid chart the gap in total games played at the MCG decreases significantly from about 2010 because the Swans have played more games at the MCG over the last 15 years, which confirms the original statement that “a ground the Bulldogs play less on than the Swans” is correct?

The incessant whinging about “VicBias” as if all 11 VIC clubs are the same is embarrassing and this is just one more pathetic example.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

lolll notice how on your stupid chart the gap in total games played at the MCG decreases significantly from about 2010 because the Swans have played more games at the MCG over the last 15 years, which confirms the original statement that “a ground the Bulldogs play less on than the Swans” is correct?

The incessant whinging about “VicBias” as if all 11 VIC clubs are the same is embarrassing and this is just one more pathetic example.

ThE dOgS pLaY oN tHe McG lEsS tHaN tHe SwAnS

 

[Number37]

Hit a nerve it seems. Calm your emotions.

GC and GWS required those picks to establish themselves as startups. Sydney just dont need all of those concessions.

Any flag sydney wins with all the academy picks will have an asteric to it it. No credibility or respect

It will have 2 asterixs next to it.
Maybe even 3.
Perhaps even as much as 20.

 

[Number37]

It took 20+ years of assistance to hand Sydney a flag, give them time.

Meanwhile Brisbane threepeated with less help for less time than Sydney.

But getting a kid from the academy is the most egregious leg up anyone has ever got, ever, in the history of anything.
And getting kids from the academy is the ONLY reason that Sydney have been successful at being competitive.

It's weird how supporters of Victorian clubs think everyone else is getting a leg up.
Particularly weird from supporters of Vic clubs who engage in creative accounting to keep or attract players.

 

[Cyclops]

But getting a kid from the academy is the most egregious leg up anyone has ever got, ever, in the history of anything.
And getting kids from the academy is the ONLY reason that Sydney have been successful at being competitive.

It's weird how supporters of Victorian clubs think everyone else is getting a leg up.
Particularly weird from supporters of Vic clubs who engage in creative accounting to keep or attract players.

Not all Vic clubs are the same, and not all non Vics are the sane.

Pies have heaps of advantages over Footscray and St Kilda.

Port and Freo get nothing. If they win a flag its worth more than if the Pies do. Dame to a lesser extent fir Saints etc.

Only a Sydney flag is worth less than a Pies flag.

And it's not "a kid", it's Heeny Blakey, Gulden and more.

The AFL is unfair, but it's not Vics vs The Rest. It's the AFL, which favours it's own pets and agenda, the powerful clubs who can twist things their way, and the politicians looking for votes. Weak clubs like Sydney benefit so long as they serve the AFLs needs.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

But getting a kid from the academy is the most egregious leg up anyone has ever got, ever, in the history of anything.
And getting kids from the academy is the ONLY reason that Sydney have been successful at being competitive.

It's weird how supporters of Victorian clubs think everyone else is getting a leg up.
Particularly weird from supporters of Vic clubs who engage in creative accounting to keep or attract players.

What assistance do you believe cambell, gulden, heeney, mills, blakey, and wicks have contributed towards your ongoing success as a club over the last several years??

 

[geelong_crazy26]

But getting a kid from the academy is the most egregious leg up anyone has ever got, ever, in the history of anything.
And getting kids from the academy is the ONLY reason that Sydney have been successful at being competitive.

It's weird how supporters of Victorian clubs think everyone else is getting a leg up.
Particularly weird from supporters of Vic clubs who engage in creative accounting to keep or attract players.

Can you please name me a larger advantage currently in the AFL system than getting a top 5 draft pick for a bunch of picks in the 30’s and 40’s??

Even st kilda would have “ the bloods” culture with this sort of leg up.