Can the rookies cut it?

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Pivot

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We selected only two rookies in the recent rookie draft in Ryan Jackson and Craig Flint. These two are added to Aisake O'hAilpin, Daniel Batson and Jesse Smith.

Solid players rather than spectaular at this early stage. Aisake could be the exception as he is still a wildcard in this bunch.

My question to all the supporters is this: Can these 5 cut it at senior level? Should we play them in the NAB Cup? I look at Jackson and Smith as solid midfielders with courage and leadership, players who could well end up ahead of more fancied midfielders on the senior list.

Jackson was a steal for us as a rookie, he can play this kid and from what I've seen of him, read and also heard from people in the know in the AFL he is likely to make it. Is listed at 188cm and 81kg which is a great size for a midfielder/ruck-rover and can play forward and kick a goal. A good mark and solid skills. Quicker than what people go on about and is insanely fit. Leader of the highest quality.

Smith is a true centreman, with all the talk about Bentick being the new Ratten (and I hope he is), Smith could well go past him and become our hard-nut who racks up possession after possession in the guts. Or maybe the two will combine and play similar roles to Fraser Brown and Greg Williams swapping up forward and through the middle. Stands 183cm and has slimmed down a bit to be around 83kg from 85kg, seems to have toned up more and increased his endurance. Ready if given a chance.

Batson is a bit unknown at this stage. The bloke is bloody huge at this stage and has worked really hard on the track and in the gym. So the work ethic looks to be there, he taps the ball well enough, still has plenty to learn (we put our faith in Gary Dempsey) but could well be a bullocking-type of ruckmen with stints up forward as he can take a decent grab, kicks well also. 202cm and roughly 100kg I'd say at this stage.

Aisake could be anything. At this stage, will he be a ruckman, defender, forward, a combination, or all? He has continued to grow and bulk up and is now 203cm and 96kg, possibly bigger and can run all day. Like he brother Setanta, he is very mobile and a bit gangly but has great endurance. Skills are getting better and a couple of whispers are that he could end up better than Setanta. We'll have to wait and see, hopefully both O'hAilpins become greats of the CFC!

Flint I don't know as much about as the others but have heard good things about him from those at the AFL. Apparently is a decent size, could grow to be a bit taller but the thing about him is he is very good in one-on-one contests and can shut down players. Plays tall and small, can play full-back but will likely at this stage be a back-flanker/pocket player and need to bulk up more and increase his endurance which will come with time. Could well take someone like Sporn, Wiggins, Bannister or Teague's spot on the senior list next year if he stands up this season. Is listed at 188.5cm and 81kg. Leads well and organises well. Has been a kid at training who uses his voice very well already. Not scared to get amongst it. Is a smoky to look out for.

So fellow fans as you can see I am excited about these rookies, not saying they will all make it, many may not but just thought I'd turn the attention slightly to our rookie list from the senior list. What's out thoughts on what these 5 can offer us in 2006/07? Are we happy with who we have on our rookie list? I certainly am! Cheers.
 

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Pivot said:
We selected only two rookies in the recent rookie draft in Ryan Jackson and Craig Flint. These two are added to Aisake O'hAilpin, Daniel Batson and Jesse Smith.

Solid players rather than spectaular at this early stage. Aisake could be the exception as he is still a wildcard in this bunch.

My question to all the supporters is this: Can these 5 cut it at senior level? Should we play them in the NAB Cup? I look at Jackson and Smith as solid midfielders with courage and leadership, players who could well end up ahead of more fancied midfielders on the senior list.

Jackson was a steal for us as a rookie, he can play this kid and from what I've seen of him, read and also heard from people in the know in the AFL he is likely to make it. Is listed at 188cm and 81kg which is a great size for a midfielder/ruck-rover and can play forward and kick a goal. A good mark and solid skills. Quicker than what people go on about and is insanely fit. Leader of the highest quality.

Smith is a true centreman, with all the talk about Bentick being the new Ratten (and I hope he is), Smith could well go past him and become our hard-nut who racks up possession after possession in the guts. Or maybe the two will combine and play similar roles to Fraser Brown and Greg Williams swapping up forward and through the middle. Stands 183cm and has slimmed down a bit to be around 83kg from 85kg, seems to have toned up more and increased his endurance. Ready if given a chance.

Batson is a bit unknown at this stage. The bloke is bloody huge at this stage and has worked really hard on the track and in the gym. So the work ethic looks to be there, he taps the ball well enough, still has plenty to learn (we put our faith in Gary Dempsey) but could well be a bullocking-type of ruckmen with stints up forward as he can take a decent grab, kicks well also. 202cm and roughly 100kg I'd say at this stage.

Aisake could be anything. At this stage, will he be a ruckman, defender, forward, a combination, or all? He has continued to grow and bulk up and is now 203cm and 96kg, possibly bigger and can run all day. Like he brother Setanta, he is very mobile and a bit gangly but has great endurance. Skills are getting better and a couple of whispers are that he could end up better than Setanta. We'll have to wait and see, hopefully both O'hAilpins become greats of the CFC!

Flint I don't know as much about as the others but have heard good things about him from those at the AFL. Apparently is a decent size, could grow to be a bit taller but the thing about him is he is very good in one-on-one contests and can shut down players. Plays tall and small, can play full-back but will likely at this stage be a back-flanker/pocket player and need to bulk up more and increase his endurance which will come with time. Could well take someone like Sporn, Wiggins, Bannister or Teague's spot on the senior list next year if he stands up this season. Is listed at 188.5cm and 81kg. Leads well and organises well. Has been a kid at training who uses his voice very well already. Not scared to get amongst it. Is a smoky to look out for.

So fellow fans as you can see I am excited about these rookies, not saying they will all make it, many may not but just thought I'd turn the attention slightly to our rookie list from the senior list. What's out thoughts on what these 5 can offer us in 2006/07? Are we happy with who we have on our rookie list? I certainly am! Cheers.

Thanks for the insight Pivot. I think at the end of the day, like most rookies, they are the great unknown. Unfortunately the reality is not most (not all) rookies dont make the grade. Afterall, there are reasons why they were overlooked by 16 teams in the national draft.
 

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I think we've gone about covering all bases with our Rookies in recent times and this years is pretty much the same.

Ruckman - Batson
KPP - O'hailpin
Flanker - Flint
Midfield - Jackson & Smith

To be honest I would liked to have seen us pick a midfielder with extreme pace instead of Flint, as I think we've got plenty of young players Flint's size.

We've done well in recent times with Thornton and Carrazzo. Bentick still has to prove himself long term in my book.

These guys have been given a lifeline after being overlooked in the National Draft, so we can't expect too much from them, other than their 100% commitment.

In summary.............Rookie List = bonus if they make it.
 

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IMO, Carlton have done pretty well with the rookie list in recent years, with Thornton, Bentick and Carrazzo the best of the bunch. I'm sure i've missed some, but these are the ones i've come up with off the top of my head.

Fantastic summary Pivot, was a very good read. Smith has been injured recently, so this may set him back a bit. Would like to see Smith (If fit), Jackson and Batson play in the NAB cup and see what they can do.
 

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HugeBluesFan said:
IMO, Carlton have done pretty well with the rookie list in recent years, with Thornton, Bentick and Carrazzo the best of the bunch. I'm sure i've missed some, but these are the ones i've come up with off the top of my head.

Fantastic summary Pivot, was a very good read. Smith has been injured recently, so this may set him back a bit. Would like to see Smith (If fit), Jackson and Batson play in the NAB cup and see what they can do.
Yeah this is a good summary Pivot and a good topic. I personally think the O'Hailpins may struggle just due to their lack of exposure to the game. I hope I am wrong as they both have talent and ability but this can be exposed at senior level if you dont also have footy smarts.

Daniel Batson is an interesting one as he is certainly big and I would like to see him play to assess whether he has the attributes to make it or not. Hopefully we'll see him in the NAB Cup.

Jackson looks quite good at training and moves like a James Heard - would be nice if he was half as good. The only thing that worries me is leg speed. We have alot of players at the moment that lack the breakaway pace and therefore will not be able to play them all in the same team. The guy's I think that will compete against each other for a spot in the midfield are: Bentick, Jackson, Sporn, Davies, Blackwell, Prendergast.

In saying all this I also think we have done quite well from the Rookie draft in recent seasons: Thornton, Carrazzo, O'Hailpin, Bentick.......
 

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I think we have solid more than spectacular players on our rookie list. Jackson & Smith lead well when they play and are genuine ball winners in the middle, both can kick a goal too.

Flint is going to have to do plenty to be upgraded at seasons end or even to remain on the rookie list. Alot will also depend on how guys on the fringes like Wiggins, Bannister, Sporn and Prendergast go - include Livo also.

Batson is a huge bloke who will need a good year, make or break year for him as he has about 5 blokes ahead of him in the rucking pecking order.

Aisake O'hAilpin I'm very keen on as a future gun. He could be anything or nothing. He is very talented and already 203cm and getting bulkier all the time. He has speed and mobility and a huge engine for a ruckman/KPP. His position is still a bit unsure of and would be after only 1 year in the game. This year looms as another learning experience and hopefully he can hold down a spot in the Bullants seniors.
 

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Pivot said:
Jackson & Smith lead well
WTF is that???? What is it to lead well?? Lead what?? Lead who??

People use the term 'leadership' far too willy nilly for my liking, especially when they have no idea what it means.

As if rookie listed players are leaders... they have no idea about playing in the AFL. How could they possibly be the leader of men when they are only kids themselves??

It's a popular term used by popular people in footy circles... so now every arse pube who thinks he knows something about footy tries to use it and only makes himself sound the tool.
 
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Bad day snoozer? I might be wrong here but the intensity of the response didn't really match the intent of the post being responded to.

At any rate, some blokes in junior footy tend to have more voice on the field and encourage and direct the other kids around them. Some also go and make things happen rather than react to what is happening around them. Whether these guys have it, I don't know but I do think you can show leadership skills before making the pinnacle of the sport.
 

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Snoozer is right ..when you select a leader you look for somebody others can look up to and aspire to be like ...thats why you would never ever select a captain who is known to take the easy way out by playing for free kicks and taking dives ....oops snoozer :eek:
 

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Snoozer said:
WTF is that???? What is it to lead well?? Lead what?? Lead who??

People use the term 'leadership' far too willy nilly for my liking, especially when they have no idea what it means.

As if rookie listed players are leaders... they have no idea about playing in the AFL. How could they possibly be the leader of men when they are only kids themselves??

It's a popular term used by popular people in footy circles... so now every arse pube who thinks he knows something about footy tries to use it and only makes himself sound the tool.
lol..........very harsh, yet funny at the same time.
 

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The Old Dark Navy's said:
Bad day snoozer? I might be wrong here but the intensity of the response didn't really match the intent of the post being responded to.

At any rate, some blokes in junior footy tend to have more voice on the field and encourage and direct the other kids around them. Some also go and make things happen rather than react to what is happening around them. Whether these guys have it, I don't know but I do think you can show leadership skills before making the pinnacle of the sport.
Shi* day.

How how is leadership defined?? Is it winning the ball before anyone else when it needs to be won?? Is it committing a selfless act?? Is it reacting to a situation faster than the players around you??

I'd probably call this ability/talent/smarts/discipline before leadership.... perhaps leadership goes hand in hand with the above.

The point you make is right that players can show leadership before reaching the pinnacle of their sport.... and I'm sure Jesse Smith was a great leader of kids at his under 18 club... but this is the AFL were talking about here. An 18 year old kid who, let's face it, will require some luck to play for Carlton will be nowhere near a leader at the club until he has reached a certain level as a player, for an extended period, for the others to look up to.

In response to the original thread topic...... F***ed if I know. Never seen them play.
 

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Much better ... I think. ;)

Having leadership skills doesn't necessarily mean you will make a good leader, but it's a starting point. We see players all the time that take direction but don't give direction. In life some manage, some can't manage to save themselves (usually these are the ones that get the promotions curiously). I guess leadership is having the guts to tell another player to focus, see things before they unfold and direct players to fill the hole. Sometimes you do this despite having played less games than other players and being much younger as well. Stephen Kernahan was a good example of this. Much younger, had some quality veteran players under him but he had presence and he earned their respect by giving his all. I always like that shot of him in the 87 grand final. First year as captain, second year in the VFL, still only 23-24, kicks a goal to give us a great break (think it was the one he took out of Dominator's hands) and while his teammates are jumping all over the place in celebration, he composed himself and gestured to calm down, that there is still plenty of time left and still work to be done. A second year player that was so committed to leading that he was able to keep his head in that situation ... well it was sensational to see.

Not comparing any of these blokes to Sticks though, far from it.
 

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Snoozer said:
WTF is that???? What is it to lead well?? Lead what?? Lead who??

People use the term 'leadership' far too willy nilly for my liking, especially when they have no idea what it means.

As if rookie listed players are leaders... they have no idea about playing in the AFL. How could they possibly be the leader of men when they are only kids themselves??

It's a popular term used by popular people in footy circles... so now every arse pube who thinks he knows something about footy tries to use it and only makes himself sound the tool.
You idiot!

I didn't say they were going to captain the club you moron - rather they show maturity, work hard both on the rack & in games, have talent, let their actions speak for themselves when they play. They both attack the pill hard and are disciplined types.

Yes, they were leaders when they played as juniors but they show traits and qualities as young men and players when they train and play.

All of these things mentioned, IMO, both Smith & Jackson possess.

Again, never said they are future captains but rather solid-type players & young men that show maturity and fantastic qualities for young men of their age.
 

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Pivot said:
You idiot!

I didn't say they were going to captain the club you moron - rather they show maturity, work hard both on the rack & in games, have talent, let their actions speak for themselves when they play. They both attack the pill hard and are disciplined types.

Yes, they were leaders when they played as juniors but they show traits and qualities as young men and players when they train and play.

All of these things mentioned, IMO, both Smith & Jackson possess.

Again, never said they are future captains but rather solid-type players & young men that show maturity and fantastic qualities for young men of their age.
Two insults straight off the bat!!! Great stuff!!! Keep em coming.

No, you didn't say they'd captain the club, on the other hand nor did I.... not sure what you're on about with that bizzo.

Maturity, hard work, let the actions speak, hard at the ball, discipline.... yeah. So what sets the guys that do these things apart from every other peanut in the AFL??? I'd have thought that these things would be a given for 99% of the comp. Most guys who didn't do these things would be out on their ear, let alone get to that level to start with!!

The fact is that you don't gain the respect of the players until you've performed consistently at a high level for an extended period... (Sticks was an exception, not the rule)... until then you may as well not even lead in a waltz.

In order to lead, you must have followers. People are not going to follow someone who just does all the right things. I bet Murray Vance did all the right things, but did people follow him?? No, because he was a spud seconds player!!

Doing the right thing and being an upstanding young man does not show leadership... that'd be an expectation I'd have of anyone. None of the qualities you've mentioned denote that these guys are leadership material.
 

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Snoozer said:
Two insults straight off the bat!!! Great stuff!!! Keep em coming.

No, you didn't say they'd captain the club, on the other hand nor did I.... not sure what you're on about with that bizzo.

Maturity, hard work, let the actions speak, hard at the ball, discipline.... yeah. So what sets the guys that do these things apart from every other peanut in the AFL??? I'd have thought that these things would be a given for 99% of the comp. Most guys who didn't do these things would be out on their ear, let alone get to that level to start with!!

The fact is that you don't gain the respect of the players until you've performed consistently at a high level for an extended period... (Sticks was an exception, not the rule)... until then you may as well not even lead in a waltz.

In order to lead, you must have followers. People are not going to follow someone who just does all the right things. I bet Murray Vance did all the right things, but did people follow him?? No, because he was a spud seconds player!!

Doing the right thing and being an upstanding young man does not show leadership... that'd be an expectation I'd have of anyone. None of the qualities you've mentioned denote that these guys are leadership material.
Yeah whatever snoozer, you're not worth it mate!
 

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I don't see you making too many cutting points in your argument re leadership. You were shot down on all fronts. Your rebuttle is more than welcome however. Until then, the score stands:

Snoozer 1 - Pivot 0
 

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Snoozer said:
I don't see you making too many cutting points in your argument re leadership. You were shot down on all fronts. Your rebuttle is more than welcome however. Until then, the score stands:

Snoozer 1 - Pivot 0
LOL, ahh you're hilarious! Are you a comedian?
 

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Pivot said:
LOL, ahh you're hilarious! Are you a comedian?
Far from it. However it probably wouldn't be hard... have you seen the standard of Aussie comic lately?? Bloody atrocious.

Surely that's not your rebuttle....

Snoozer 1 - Pivot 0
 

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Snoozer said:
Far from it. However it probably wouldn't be hard... have you seen the standard of Aussie comic lately?? Bloody atrocious.

Surely that's not your rebuttle....

Snoozer 1 - Pivot 0
You sure love saying "rebuttle" don't you? Does it make you feel clever?

Will agree to disagree with you on this topic..

:p
 

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Pivot said:
You sure love saying "rebuttle" don't you? Does it make you feel clever?

Will agree to disagree with you on this topic..

:p
No, I already feel clever having burned you on this topic.

You will agree with me!!!
 

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Snoozer said:
No, I already feel clever having burned you on this topic.

You will agree with me!!!
...now that's funny you clown

how did you burn me little fella? this should be good!
 

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Pivot said:
...now that's funny you clown

how did you burn me little fella? this should be good!
Well you haven't been able to come back with anything decent for a start, besides calling me a clown, which is right up there with the better banter I've heard.

Snoozer 2 - Pivot 0
 

Pivot

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Snoozer said:
Well you haven't been able to come back with anything decent for a start, besides calling me a clown, which is right up there with the better banter I've heard.

Snoozer 2 - Pivot 0
dont need a comeback champ, you make no sense and have no point. nice try though!
 
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