Can we afford all of De Goey, Grundy, and Moore

[Markfs]

sidebottom has been sub par compared to last year...

 

[jackcass]

Not sure that I'd be taking too much confidence from GWS's recent history: Treloar, Adams, Shiel, Scully

I guess they'll always need to gauge who they want to retain. I'd rank Treloar and Adams behind (say for the sake of the discussion) the potential of Coniglio and Kelly and probably Hopper, purely for their superior ball use. They also have Toranto developing and Bonar, Hill, Caldwell, Shipley, O'Halloran, and Hately who can't even get a debut or regular games yet. And they still have Ward (when he isn't injured). They're drowning in quality midfield depth.

I'm not a huge fan of Shiel. Certainly a good footballer but not on the same level as those they've retained.

Scully signed for a long term deal for massive $$$'s, still only 28, but had massive question marks on whether he'd ever play again let alone ever reach the same standards.

Yes they've lost players and definitely some quality included in that. You could probably name a very competitive side composed of players who have departed GWS and found homes elsewhere. But it always allows them to be in the hunt for the next Kelly or Greene or Cameron or Davis through whatever trade compo they receive and realistically they either look at continuous improvement or risk losing very talented kids who are starved of opportunity.

My point was though that even with all those departures, they've managed to retain Cameron, Kelly, Greene, Ward, Davis, Coniglio, Patton et al under the same TPP every club operates.

 

[Maggie5]

sidebottom has been sub par compared to last year...

So get rid of him to make salary space?

 

[sr36]

So get rid of him to make salary space?

I think he was trying to pot KMs post.

 

[Maggie5]

I think he was trying to pot KMs post.

Went over my head, I thought.

 

[Pie eyed]

Yep. Our forward line is on fire, but the forwards we target with our kicks only get about 15 possessions. I'm not sure why so many expect regular 20 possession games from the guys whose main job is to get front and square and hope some scraps fall their way. Their offensive job is to get into dangerous spots for spillage and be clean if anything falls their way. Varcoe has been a bit fumbly and been dropped a couple of times. Thomas and Brown have had clean hands. They all play their role well. Thomas kicks a few more goals because he spreads more aggressively, the downside is that he applies less pressure because he sometimes guesses wrong and spreads when we don't win the footy.

The important thing is that he is there when the ball sprays out, no point having vacant ground....
Anyway I can easily see has value, even the fact he is a senior player which many ignore. he has experience and smarts.
AND....he is a very reliable set shot for goal

 

[Pie eyed]

sidebottom has been sub par compared to last year...

 

[jackcass]

I think people forget how equally inconsistent we were early in 2018. It wasn't till after the bye that we really hit our straps. Sidey has played more wing this season than last so it's a more outside game. Possessions and a few other stats are slightly down but the trade off is more marks, better spread, improved DE%, and greater meters gained.

 

[Pie eyed]

Seriously, a statement which features the phrase "sub par" and the name "Sidebottom" in conjunction is erroneous at best.
Given SSB was second in the Brownie last year and was widely regarded as the single best player by many can hardly be considered par.

Par would be the average of his 10 year career.
Lets have a look?

This year.
Kicks above average (13.80) at 14.78 and above his kicks last year which were just above average (13.88).
Marks above average (5.18) at 6.89 and above his kicks last year which were just below average (5.12)
Handballs were above average (10.60) at 11.78. His HB were well above average last year (15.50)

I could go on but it's intensive...
so the only KPI he is below average in this year are Tackles, Clearances and Frees for.

So logically he is not below par at all. He is below a few KPI compared to last year but be is also well ahead in others.
Ahead in
Kicks
Mark
Goals average kicked
Running bounces
Inside Fifties
Uncontested Possies

Behind in.
Clearances
Clangers
Points average kicked
Tackles
Contested possies
Goal assists

Even then the differences are insignificant.

Worthy of note that nearly every stat is double those of his first year 2009 based on nearly the same number of games 2009/11, 2019/9

So he is a 100% better player than his first year.

 

[Pie eyed]

Seriously, a statement which features the phrase "sub par" and the name "Sidebottom" in conjunction is erroneous at best.
Given SSB was second in the Brownie last year and was widely regarded as the single best player by many can hardly be considered par.

Par would be the average of his 10 year career.
Lets have a look?

This year.
Kicks above average (13.80) at 14.78 and above his kicks last year which were just above average (13.88).
Marks above average (5.18) at 6.89 and above his kicks last year which were just below average (5.12)
Handballs were above average (10.60) at 11.78. His HB were well above average last year (15.50)

I could go on but it's intensive...
so the only KPI he is below average in this year are Tackles, Clearances and Frees for.

So logically he is not below par at all. He is below a few KPI compared to last year but be is also well ahead in others.
Ahead in
Kicks
Mark
Goals average kicked
Running bounces
Inside Fifties
Uncontested Possies

Behind in.
Clearances
Clangers
Points average kicked
Tackles
Contested possies
Goal assists

Even then the differences are insignificant.

Worthy of note that nearly every stat is double those of his first year 2009 based on nearly the same number of games 2009/11, 2019/9

So he is a 100% better player than his first year.

Gee. You have to love Sidearse.
Based on those exhaustive figures, a champ.

 

[Jelly Bean]

The original question is interesting - can we afford both (and throw Moore into that mix). It looks like a very tough one.

Grundy and De Goey could command over a million each in their next contracts easily, which would suggest we can't accommodate both (and Moore) and the rest of our guns (and that is assuming we need to move Pendles on after next year maybe).

If you accept that we need to lose one of them (which I know isn't guaranteed, but let's play this out anyway), then the question is which one and how to work it.

There is an argument that if we are ever going to trade/release Grundy, then the end of this year is the time to do it. We'd get back the first pick in the draft this year, and plenty more from Adelaide (almost certainly their first pick again next year, as well as more). This would allow us to do it while he is still contracted next year, and also shield him from free agency, where we are in a weaker position.

Alternatively, there could be an argument as to why it would make sense to trade De Goey. We'd get a higher trade value price for him (younger, and fits into any team at all with his weapons, unlike Grundy who only plays ruck), and there is no prospect of free agency to complicate our trade price.

Recommendation (based on a scenario where we had to trade one). If we had to trade one, I'd choose to trade Grundy, and to do it at the end of this year. I don't think as a team we capitalise enough on his hitout dominance, and expect we could get a solid enough ruckman back in a trade with the haul we could get for him.

 

[Robroy22]

Geez I love it when accountants analyse footy.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Listen to yourselves.

Grundy to a South Australian club is an impossibility.

His entire possible range of existence can be traced as follows:

Yarraville to the South West.
Essendon to the North West.
Pascoe Vale, Coburg and Preston at the Northern frontier.
From Preston, trace the Darebin Creek down to Alphington on the Eastern front.
Then carefully draw a rough squiggle through Fairfield, Abottsford, Richmond, Fitzroy and Yarraville via the CBD.

If you create a rough circle along the outer edges of the above suburbs, you have the zone in which Grundy must be at all times, except for short periods of less than 3 days at a time to attend interstate games (after which he must be confined to a hyperbaric chamber in Northcote for 2 days).

Other than a couple of distinct localities in Tasmania, New Zealand and the Victorian country side, there is no other place in the world that can provide a high enough level of hipsterness or coffee quality to keep Brodie alive and fortunately, those other places do not have AFL teams and hence can't meet his salary expectations.

Outside of Collingwood, the only other AFL teams within the life zone are Essendon, Carlton and Richmond, who are Essendon, Carlton and Richmond and therefore no threat to us.

The man is staying at the Pies.

 

[swoop42]

Hawthorn lost Franklin but still had Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead, Rioli, Lewis, Burgyone, Breust, Gunston etc and were able to add the likes of Lake and Frawley.

If they can afford all that then we we can afford our 3 if they're prepared to take less because it's the price paid to be a Premiership player.

That's the key.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Love the title with its Jack Dyer nuance

• Can we Afford both De Goey and Grundy and Moore

maybe it’s my maths, but I count three.

 

[surfer1]

sidebottom has been sub par compared to last year...

Yep his sidestep and goal was really ordinary

 

[Robroy22]

Yep his sidestep and goal was really ordinary

That was Daicosesq actually....fantastic player Sidey.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Yep his sidestep and goal was really ordinary

That was Daicosesq actually....fantastic player Sidey.

And if I may,
He’s sublime pass to Mihocek (I think it was) to step up a better shot at goal for the team.
Where he could have had a go at a hard angle goal.
Took the best team option.

Outstanding.



ps Peter Daicos would have kicked the goal blind folded, but only he! is allowed.

 

[Black_White]

And if I may,
He’s sublime pass to Mihocek (I think it was) to step up a better shot at goal for the team.
Where he could have had a go at a hard angle goal.
Took the best team option.

Outstanding.



ps Peter Daicos would have kicked the goal blind folded, but only he! is allowed.

Watching the recording and that just happened.
My god it was good,.

 

[Markfs]

geez i was just giving support to my learned colleague who had done the research and found that Sidey had slipped since last year.....

 

[Anzacday]

That was Daicosesq actually

It was indeed.
It also reminded of when Swanny turned Scarlett inside out in the 2010 PF.

 

[surfer1]

To answer the title question we are mad if we dont

 

[Bad Horse]

No, clearly thats absurd, we cant possibly afford any more than two, so we have only one choice. We must steal the third.

We need to get Minis, a whole lot of them, and a big truck, and Michael Caine...

 

[sr36]

And if I may,
He’s sublime pass to Mihocek (I think it was) to step up a better shot at goal for the team.
Where he could have had a go at a hard angle goal.
Took the best team option.

Outstanding.



ps Peter Daicos would have kicked the goal blind folded, but only he! is allowed.

The other sublime moment was at chb when Treloar scrubbed a kick out of defence, Sidey's sublime roving on the move, breaking into the clear and then a forward handball to set Stephenson into space who was itching to take them on with a run but instead handballed it to WHE who kicked to Mihocek for one of his goals

 

[eddiesmith]

I don’t know why everyone is so concerned about players who’s contracts don’t expire until the end of next season!

Let’s try and win a flag first, that will help keep them together if they care about long term success. Of course another failure could see them more likely to leave as they realise we just aren’t good enough