Can we now stop calling it the "Supplements saga"?

mxett

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And that's why you got done for governance.

Even if they did conspire to do this, your internal controls should have made this very difficult to achieve.

For example all well and good about talking about amino acids in texts but the supplements stilll shave gone through some expenditure controls which should have meant you had good records about what you authorized (e.g Dank requesting and Reid approving) before being ordered, what got purchased (i.e order not placed by Dank or footy department), received and got used so their were no doubts about what happened.

Probably weren't the only club at that point in time with poor internal controls, but you were the guys which brought the dodgy people inside the club.
im not excusing their actions in 2012, I'm explaining their failure to acknowledge they ran a doping program. They have admitted their mistakes in governance and oversight but cant admit to running a doping program when they literally werent aware of it
 

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blackcat

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im not excusing their actions in 2012, I'm explaining their failure to acknowledge they ran a doping program. They have admitted their mistakes in governance and oversight but cant admit to running a doping program when they literally werent aware of it
that is what pro sport essentially is, running a doping program, it just matters not to the Insider, it matters only insofar as it is available to be seen to the Outsider, the consumer, the succour mom. Dont spit in the soup.

Not everyteam runs a formal program inside the four walls of the club, in fact, none really do. But were not Adelaide and Hawthorn withdrawing blood for potential injuries the other year. And Grimes and Rooke and other players with consistent hamstrings are sent over to Healing Hans over in Hamburg or wherever it is.

I usually ask, is there anything fundamentally different, between a team where individuals leave the club at 3pm, but then share sources, techniques, and the technical implements with the suppliers... is there anything fundamentally different between Windy Hill.

I answered this. Yes there was one thing different. hubris from Evans and Hird. They allowed the outside to see inside the walls of a murky enterprise. They failed in risk management. But otherwise, not much different. PEDs are acceptable in pro sport when you are part of the fraternity.

no need to pass value judgements on this and shoot the message(nger) you are entitled to disagree and think me deluded. most do.
 

Aeglos

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It was a club sanctioned Illegal Performance Enhancing Drugs regime...

So the terminology is correct...

They weren't supplements.
They were taken to supplement the training the players were doing, so supplement is at least equally as accurate as CSIPED.
Rolls off the tongue a lot better as well.
Though why Dank didn't just use PRP instead of anything Thymosin related I'm not sure, given the former is allowed (currently at least) by WADA and has a proven track record of working.
 

blackcat

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They were taken to supplement the training the players were doing, so supplement is at least equally as accurate as CSIPED.
Rolls off the tongue a lot better as well.
Though why Dank didn't just use PRP instead of anything Thymosin related I'm not sure, given the former is allowed (currently at least) by WADA and has a proven track record of working.
PRP, the blood spinning, get rid of the plasma and reinject. That is old school, Tom Danielson and his coach Rick Crawford were doing it around 2002, and Healing Hans and his clinic in Hamburg do some s**t like that and reinject it into the muscles and marrow and ligaments and tendons and other white tissue

cycling do the far the best /grammar, cycling do the far best heuristic on sports doping, Johns Hopkins, Cedars Sinai, eat ur hearts out like a Syrian jihadi

if it is blood spinning it will be ending in the far best SARMs and GHRP(peps) like CJC. cjc is the freekin bomb, pretty easy to see the physiognomy and visage of players like Jager Jager Jagermeister and others, and their muscle separation and their foreheads, and you can see it working.
 

Aeglos

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PRP, the blood spinning, get rid of the plasma and reinject. That is old school, Tom Danielson and his coach Rick Crawford were doing it around 2002, and Healing Hans and his clinic in Hamburg do some s**t like that and reinject it into the muscles and marrow and ligaments and tendons and other white tissue

cycling do the far the best /grammar, cycling do the far best heuristic on sports doping, Johns Hopkins, Cedars Sinai, eat ur hearts out like a Syrian jihadi

if it is blood spinning it will be ending in the far best SARMs and GHRP(peps) like CJC. cjc is the freekin bomb, pretty easy to see the physiognomy and visage of players like Jager Jager Jagermeister and others, and their muscle separation and their foreheads, and you can see it working.
Sometimes old school is (one of) the best school(s).
I've had a few friends in the weightlifting community use PRP to great success to aid recovery in tendon and muscle injuries
 

blackcat

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They were taken to supplement the training the players were doing, so supplement is at least equally as accurate as CSIPED.
Rolls off the tongue a lot better as well.
Though why Dank didn't just use PRP instead of anything Thymosin related I'm not sure, given the former is allowed (currently at least) by WADA and has a proven track record of working.
club sanctioned illegal performance enhancing drug program acronym, I thought it was CSI PED.

I thought Stokes was seconded to Windy Hill?

or was it Gil Grissom?


or the redhead out of NYPD bleu and David Milch and Gauloises before he went to Miami for a paypacket rise and some quality blow




enough CSI memes blackcat you are about a decade late, at a minimum
 

Percel

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club sanctioned illegal performance enhancing drug program acronym, I thought it was CSI PED.

I thought Stokes was seconded to Windy Hill?

or was it Gil Grissom?


or the redhead out of NYPD bleu and David Milch and Gauloises before he went to Miami for a paypacket rise and some quality blow




enough CSI memes blackcat you are about a decade late, at a minimum
Nick stokes, drinks and smokes, lends his arse to other blokes.
 

NoAFLinmycomp

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The AFL have clearly moved on, they just employed Paul Hamilton - he was the head of our football department in 2012.
Yup - he's one of the support staff that should no longer be protected and should be fully investigated.

There are others at AFL level as well that would have to have been involved in the initial machinations to cover this all over. Thus far Hird is about the only to have bucked the AFL's skullduggery - imagine how differently this would have run if Hird&Hird had not challenged the manufactured solution?

The carpet is a monster - there would be so many real BTGIDs buried under there!!

images (12).jpg
 

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blackcat

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Not everyteam runs a formal program inside the four walls of the club, in fact, none really do. But were not Adelaide and Hawthorn withdrawing blood for potential injuries the other year. And Grimes and Rooke and other players with consistent hamstrings are sent over to Healing Hans over in Hamburg or wherever it is.

I usually ask, is there anything fundamentally different, between a team where individuals leave the club at 3pm, but then share sources, techniques, and the technical implements with the suppliers... is there anything fundamentally different between Windy Hill.
In economics, (mathematics) they call this Game Theory.
For Essendon and Albert, what was their weasel word? push the boundaries?

Game theory is "the study of mathematical models of conflict and cooperation between intelligent rational decision-makers." Game theory is mainly used in economics, political science, psychology, biology, and computer science
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory
 

blackcat

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Yup - he's one of the support staff that should no longer be protected and should be fully investigated.

There are others at AFL level as well that would have to have been involved in the initial machinations to cover this all over. Thus far Hird is about the only to have bucked the AFL's skullduggery - imagine how differently this would have run if Hird&Hird had not challenged the manufactured solution?

The carpet is a monster - there would be so many real BTGIDs buried under there!!

View attachment 300907
the first one was the Tuna fisherman's sister Liz Lukin. she solved the dilemma of how to defuse the term roids and just make the media say supplements.
 

blackcat

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I agree they should have owned up if they knew they had wronged, but I dont think it is anywhere that simple. Its quite possible that Robinson and Dank conspired to keep the truth about what they used from the players and club (see texts discussing naming all substances as amino acids) which lead to a situation where the club just didnt know. How can you admit guilt if you dont know?
there is a logical fallacy inherent, to know they had been wronged, would be to have a threshold knowledge, benchmark knowledge, of Dank's insight and the drugs he was using. AFL players on the whole, are quite simple. They are very gullible, willing to sublimate their autonomy to be part of the group, this does not even recognise the entry barrier, where they have willingly pursued performance enhancement as part of their role and identity as AFL player.

this is all a cognitive dissonance which is product of the puritanical social engineering of PEDs being a harbinger of evil, when they have willing taken the plunge with the hypodermics and this pursuit of enhancement. it is like, self denial. Or more nuanced pas des deux Insider Outsider scenario.
 
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blackcat

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Lance A is still a cheat, Essendon 34 are still cheats.
Lance Armstrong was a champion and all his competitors have not said a word against him and are in lockstep saying he should keep his titles. The problem actually aint with Lance it is with the generic you (not referring to Satan)
 

mxett

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Lance A is still a cheat, Essendon 34 are still cheats.
No, they were cheats in 2012. In 2013, 2014, 2015, they played fairly, as they will most likely for the rest of their career. In my mind they were far more victims of poor judgement and unfortunate circumstances than cheats anyway. Do you think the bulldogs consider Crameri a cheat? Or Port consider Monfries and Ryder cheats? Or the Saints consider Carlisle a cheat?
 

frenchfri12

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there is no way this soft term would be used if the same issue was in the NRL or any overseas comp. "Performance enhancing drugs" is the term and is what the suspension was for. Lets cut the crap now.
Well the problem with that is its been scientifically proven that the supplments didn't enhance preformance. So you can't call it that.
 

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