Society/Culture Can we please stop equating the risk posed by left wing extremists with that of right wing extremists?

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Norm Smith Medallist
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics

Is it not correct to say that fundamentalist Salaffi Islam holds chauvinist, xenophobic, theocratic, homophobic, transphobic, and reactionary views in the extreme?

Fundamentalist Islam is (self evidently) an expression of Islamic conservatism. An extremely conservative expression. While plenty of Muslims hold a more liberal interpretation of their faith, when you get to the numpties of ISIS and so forth, there is no other word to describe that dogma other than ultra conservative and far right wing.

Contrast to left wing politics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

In any event, this is not a thread about Islamic terrorism. We have a thread for that. This is a thread about people (such as yourself) who constantly feel the need to deflect from the risk posed by far right wing terrorism, especially with regards to constantly seeking to establish some kind of parity with the risk posed by so called left wing terrorists.
I don't much set much store on wikipedia for views on politics. It depends who holds editorial control.

As I said before fundamentalist Islam is not left or right. It could be classed as radicalism against the conservative mainstream.

I reckon if you have Milton Friedman and Usama Bin Laden grouped together then maybe you have your classifications wrong.
 

Malifice

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As I said before fundamentalist Islam is not left or right.
And as I've said before, you're wrong.

'Right wing' doesnt just apply to economics (in fact it doesn't apply to economics at all). It's a term that is used to imply conservative, reactionary, and traditionalist views. Far Right wing includes both fascism/ Nazism, ultra nationalism, and religious fundamentalism.

Are you saying that Islamic Fundies, who literally want to recreate a Caliphate adhering to 9th century religious law, including slavery, oppression of women and homosexuals, and suppression of individual liberty are not landing squarely in that Far right wing bracket?
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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And as I've said before, you're wrong.

'Right wing' doesnt just apply to economics (in fact it doesn't apply to economics at all). It's a term that is used to imply conservative, reactionary, and traditionalist views. Far Right wing includes both fascism/ Nazism, ultra nationalism, and religious fundamentalism.

Are you saying that Islamic Fundies, who literally want to recreate a Caliphate adhering to 9th century religious law, including slavery, oppression of women and homosexuals, and suppression of individual liberty are not landing squarely in that Far right wing bracket?
So what do the views of the so called far right in Australia like Mark Latham and Usuma Bin Laden have in common?
 

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Malifice

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So what do the views of the so called far right in Australia like Mark Latham and Usuma Bin Laden have in common?
Latham and One Nation are Right wing. Far Right wing would be Frasier Anning (he was too far Right even for Pauline Hanson) and Blair Cottrell.

To answer your question though: Homophobia, transphobia, sexism, reactionary views, an opposition to liberalism and progressivism etc.

A more accurate comparison would be Blair Cottrell. Then not only would you have the above views (held even stronger than Latham), but also a strong dislike for Jews to add to the mix as well.

Here, I'll let you decide which of the following political positions ultra conservative fundamentalist Islam (hint - it's in the name) most closely aligns with:

Right-wing politics represents the view that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics, or tradition. Hierarchy and inequality may be seen as natural results of traditional social differences or the competition in market economies. The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics#:~:text=Right-wing politics represents the,law, economics, or tradition.

Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy. Left-wing politics typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

We're talking about an ideology that condones literal slavery, and the divine right of the descendants of Mohammed to rule. It is excessively sexist, reactionary (literally adhering to 9th century dress, customs and legal codes), homo and trans phobic, basing its entire doctrine on tradition and natural law (as laid down in the Quran).

It's literally been called 'Islamo-fascism' for Petes sake with comparisons routinely drawn between the two (ironically usually by far right wing nuffies like Cottrell):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism
 

juzz88

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Geeze, you lefties are handling this BLM/Antifa rioting worse than I thought. Claiming radical Islam is a right wing ideology? Give us a spell.

As much as nobody wants to see a US civil war, and I vehemently disagree with the moron that said it would be "good" for the right if there was one (see Chief's post), let's not pretend that the right is equally to blame for the rise in tension and violence in the states.

The simple fact of the matter is the Democrats have thrown a 4 year long hissy fit because they lost the last election, and they have refused to crack down on violence in blue states, so they can blame it on Trump.

I'm happy to have a nuanced conversation about Trump and his deficiencies, but I can't cop people who carry on like he's the second coming of Hitler, then turn a blind eye to what Democratic politicians have allowed to go on in their states and cities.
 

Number37

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Geeze, you lefties are handling this BLM/Antifa rioting worse than I thought. Claiming radical Islam is a right wing ideology? Give us a spell.

As much as nobody wants to see a US civil war, and I vehemently disagree with the moron that said it would be "good" for the right if there was one (see Chief's post), let's not pretend that the right is equally to blame for the rise in tension and violence in the states.

The simple fact of the matter is the Democrats have thrown a 4 year long hissy fit because they lost the last election, and they have refused to crack down on violence in blue states, so they can blame it on Trump.

I'm happy to have a nuanced conversation about Trump and his deficiencies, but I can't cop people who carry on like he's the second coming of Hitler, then turn a blind eye to what Democratic politicians have allowed to go on in their states and cities.

14 more days of Trump's bullsh*t and the USA can finally start the long road back to unity.
Trump will get his arse kicked out of office so hard he will end up in Russia, then the Russian Mafia that he owes money to can have their way with him.
 

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Damn those right wingers!

An assailant has decapitated a history teacher in France who had recently shown cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed in class.​
Witnesses watched the man decapitate his victim — who was also male — in broad daylight close to the school in Conflans-Sainte-Honorine.​
The attacker was said to be enraged after the teacher displayed cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed to pupils, French media said.​
Police officers rushed to the scene after the alarm was raised at 5pm Friday local time and the killer fled towards the northwestern Paris commune of Eragny-sur-Oise.​
The attacker was later shot by police near Paris as they tried to arrest him and he died of his injuries. He’s believed to be an 18-year-old Chechen man born in Moscow.​
The attacker shouted “Allahu Akbar” as he was confronted by police officers, a police source said.​

Damn those right wingers indeed.
 

Snake_Baker

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The right wing extremists have no chance of gaining broad political control, whereas the left wing extremists are a serious danger of achieving this.

Therefore, the risk of the left is greater. They are better organised and are pumping out of the academic machine at a fast rate.
 

Malifice

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The right wing extremists have no chance of gaining broad political control, whereas the left wing extremists are a serious danger of achieving this.

Therefore, the risk of the left is greater. They are better organised and are pumping out of the academic machine at a fast rate.
Name one. Name a Left wing extremist on par with Brevic, Roof or Tarrant.
 

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Snake_Baker

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How on earth is he a 'Left wing extremist'?

Youve been drinking the Murdoch news kool aide Teffy.
You don't live in Victoria?

Who was the last right winger that stacked a Westminster parliament to hand himself significant powers?

You're blinkered when it comes to this stuff.
 

Gough

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You don't live in Victoria?

Who was the last right winger that stacked a Westminster parliament to hand himself significant powers?

You're blinkered when it comes to this stuff.
And while you're looking over there the Feds are handing over the bigger chunk of public money into private hands in living memory. They got you good.
 

Snake_Baker

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And while you're looking over there the Feds are handing over the bigger chunk of public money into private hands in living memory. They got you good.

Hey, you deflected, you didn't deny & I never claimed the other mob were that much better.

The premise of this thread is based upon that being the case.
 

Malifice

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Who was the last right winger that stacked a Westminster parliament to hand himself significant powers?
2017 in Victoria.

Liberals in Victoria claim the party's religious right is stacking branches with Mormons and Catholic groups in a drive to pre-select more conservative candidates.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06...religious-right-branch-stacking-fears/8667756

2019 in NSW.

Members of the Liberal Party’s hard-right faction are attempting to erode the support of factional rivals in Sydney by organising religious freedom meetings that double as branch stacking events.

Several Liberal sources have told The Sydney Morning Herald there has been a concerted effort by facets of the party’s hard-right to undermine sitting members in several safe state and federal seats, including in the Hills district.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...-exposed-in-liberal-feud-20190805-p52e0x.html
 

Snake_Baker

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What's your point? I already stated they were just as bad.

Is it any worse than appointing a former union receptionist to a health portfolio during a pandemic and when the previous minister resigned due to incompetence.

The flaw in your logic is that one of these representations is somehow ideologically purer than the other, it's complete bullshit.
 

Number37

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What's your point? I already stated they were just as bad.

Is it any worse than appointing a former union receptionist to a health portfolio during a pandemic and when the previous minister resigned due to incompetence.

The flaw in your logic is that one of these representations is somehow ideologically purer than the other, it's complete bullshit.
You can't have it both ways.
If they appoint someone outside govt...you will scream blue murder about dicators and the like.

But your logic conveniently ignores that the Minister sits above a thousand public health officials, of which the overwhelming majority hold specific health expertise.
 

Established1870

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The right wing extremists have no chance of gaining broad political control, whereas the left wing extremists are a serious danger of achieving this.
So Putin, Orban, Erdogan, Xi, MBS, Modi, Trump and Bolsonaro all being in control of various countries with large swathes of power and influence across the world and the almost weekly reports released by multiple countries top intelligence officers saying right wing extremism is the biggest terrorist threat in their country?

All those scumbags already in power, the huge rise in right wing extremists across the globe wanting to grab power and it's the left wing "extremists" who are "dangerously" close to achieving political domination.

You do you mate.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Latham and One Nation are Right wing. Far Right wing would be Frasier Anning (he was too far Right even for Pauline Hanson) and Blair Cottrell.

To answer your question though: Homophobia, transphobia, sexism, reactionary views, an opposition to liberalism and progressivism etc.

A more accurate comparison would be Blair Cottrell. Then not only would you have the above views (held even stronger than Latham), but also a strong dislike for Jews to add to the mix as well.

Here, I'll let you decide which of the following political positions ultra conservative fundamentalist Islam (hint - it's in the name) most closely aligns with:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics#:~:text=Right-wing politics represents the,law, economics, or tradition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

We're talking about an ideology that condones literal slavery, and the divine right of the descendants of Mohammed to rule. It is excessively sexist, reactionary (literally adhering to 9th century dress, customs and legal codes), homo and trans phobic, basing its entire doctrine on tradition and natural law (as laid down in the Quran).

It's literally been called 'Islamo-fascism' for Petes sake with comparisons routinely drawn between the two (ironically usually by far right wing nuffies like Cottrell):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism
Regardless of you trying to find features that 'closely align', from a terrorism point of view it makes no sense to group either left or right wing terrorists with Islamic terrorists. They have very different goals and motivations. You have said earlier in the thread that Islamic terrorists have legitimate grievances.

ASIO doesn't group Islamic and right wing extremists together either in terms of agendas or relative threat.

While Sunni Islamist extremism is the primary terrorist threat facing Australia, other groups continue to engage in politically motivated violence and the promotion of communal violence. These groups are diverse and have differing agendas, including extreme right-wing and extreme left-wing ideologies. Small subsets of individuals in these groups are willing to use violence to further their own interests. While their activities are concerning, they remain a small part of their broader movements and are presently unlikely to lead to wide-scale violence or pose a threat to social cohesion.​
 

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