Society/Culture Can we please stop equating the risk posed by left wing extremists with that of right wing extremists?

Oct 2, 2007
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Next thing you will have a Homer episode, put a pencil up your nose and realise that you have been a muppet for years trying to call National Socialists "right wing".

You realize posts like this make you sound like a total idiot right.

It's why I keep calling you out on it. I love watching you flag yourself as the kind of guy who thinks Nazis are 'left wing' and David Duke and the KKK and Skinheads are 'doing it wrong' when they protest opposed to the leftists.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Seems islamist terror groups are neither left or right and neither wants to claim 'ownership'

No, they're right wing. Far right wing. Ultra conservative, reactionary, mysoginistic, homophobic, authoritarian, xenophobic, and strongly believe in a hierarchy.

You can have far right wing ultra conservative Jews as well - doesn't mean they're going to get along well with Nazis or the KKK or the Islamists, and African or Japanese based far Right wing peeps wouldn't get along with those groups either.

The Empire of Japan was a Far Right wing miltaristic, reactionary, traditionalist, authoritarian and xenophobic entity for example, but they werent fighting for 'white power' either.
 
Sep 17, 2019
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No.

According to the ASIO 2020 Annual Report Sunni Islamic extremism remains ASIO’s greatest concern, comprising two thirds (67%) of their investigations. All 27 groups on Australia's terror watch list are Islamist. There's a long list of Islamist terror incidents in Australia and many people jailed. Quite a few multiple terrorism offenders are scheduled for release from Australian prisons over the next five years.

One third (33%) of ASIO investigations addressed extreme right-wing individuals. There are no right wing groups on Australia's terror watch list. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the only right wing extremist to be convicted of terror offences in Australia is Phillip Galea. He had an anti-Islamic agenda, which highlights the nonsense of you attempting to conflate Islamist and extreme right wing terrorism. ASIO don't group them together - because they have different and often completely opposing goals.

Outside Australia there remains a significant Islamist terror threat in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East.



The terror threat from leftists is insignificant in Australia though they have held violent protests.

In the US the Homeland Threat Assessment reported on the rising trend of exploitation by the far left of lawful protests - to cause violence, death, and destruction in American communities. In 2020 there were over 100 days of violence and destruction in US cities, targeted at government property and law enforcement officers. 300 separate injuries caused by assaults with sledgehammers, commercial grade fireworks, rocks, metal pipes, improvised explosive devices, and more.

Globally there exists a number of extreme left wing groups. In the US the list of designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations includes 7 left wing groups and 61 Islamist groups.

So the death rate is much higher when far right wing groups are involved?
 
Jun 6, 2016
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No, they're right wing. Far right wing. Ultra conservative, reactionary, mysoginistic, homophobic, authoritarian, xenophobic, and strongly believe in a hierarchy.

You can have far right wing ultra conservative Jews as well - doesn't mean they're going to get along well with Nazis or the KKK or the Islamists, and African or Japanese based far Right wing peeps wouldn't get along with those groups either.

The Empire of Japan was a Far Right wing miltaristic, reactionary, traditionalist, authoritarian and xenophobic entity for example, but they werent fighting for 'white power' either.

Depends on ones view of what is left or right. Like you've stated w****** right groups wouldn't view sIslamist militants as right wing. They'd view them as a societal threat, even though similar ideological traits. Some would view them as left purely because of the 'way of life ' threat, which is stupid. I don't view Islamist extremists as left or right, just a bunch of hot headed dick heads.
 
Jun 11, 2007
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Any NAZI porn today, any NAZI porn?

Why yes, here's some more.

ss_girls_poster_01.jpg

Nazi_love_camp_poster_01.jpg
 
Jun 30, 2009
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Depends on ones view of what is left or right. Like you've stated w****** right groups wouldn't view sIslamist militants as right wing. They'd view them as a societal threat, even though similar ideological traits. Some would view them as left purely because of the 'way of life ' threat, which is stupid. I don't view Islamist extremists as left or right, just a bunch of hot headed dick heads.
Seems funny that we can have no hesitation in branding right wing christian groups as right wing when all their sympathies are with right wing authoritarian politics, religious control over peoples lives to an extreme degree and mixing of church and state

yet feel differently about their mirror image in muslim groups who express the same sort of absolute religion and state authoritarian control.

especially made easy by the lefts largely atheist / agnostic / clear separation of church and state beliefs.
 
Jun 30, 2009
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Dear God. Another one.

How is hatred of the freedom of individuals and the rule of law associate with the "right"?

Arts Degree by any chance?

#flatearther
Pretty easily - see every shitpot right wing military junta in south america and the middle east where extrajudicial punishments are legal and not punished.

freedom of individuals? Are you shitting me - you have christians infiltrating right wing parties in the english speaking world with the intention of inflicting their imaginary beardy bloke in the skies made up rules on non believers. Freedom?

thee right wing is all about freedom for corporations to steal, pay no taxes, poison our environment and people without consequences

its got sfa to do with actual freedom - it frees the wealthy minority to s**t all over everyone else.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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According to the ASIO 2020 Annual Report Sunni Islamic extremism remains ASIO’s greatest concern, comprising two thirds (67%) of their investigations. One third (33%) of ASIO investigations addressed extreme right-wing individuals.

67 percent Islamists, 33 percent RWNJ's.

0 percent leftists.

The terror threat from leftists is insignificant

There we go. That wasn't that hard was it?

There are no right wing groups on Australia's terror watch list. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the only right wing extremist to be convicted of terror offences in Australia is Phillip Galea. He had an anti-Islamic agenda, which highlights the nonsense of you attempting to conflate Islamist and extreme right wing terrorism. ASIO don't group them together - because they have different and often completely opposing goals.

I dont know why you keep banging on about Islamists, I agree Sunni extremism is a massive terror threat. I've never suggested otherwise.

This is a thread about attempts by some Nazi apologists out there to attempt equate the risk of terrorism from the far Left with that of the far Right. Says so right in the title.

And Sunni extremists and RWNJ's dont have have different goals. They both seek to establish a patriarchal, ultra conservative, totalitarian fundamentalist/ fascist State. Where they differ is in what that State looks like (the Islamists want an 8th century Caliphate; the RWNJ's want the Third Reich 2.0).
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Depends on ones view of what is left or right.

Left wing: Believe in equality and justice for all, and oppose social hierarchies.

Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in critique of social hierarchy. Left-wing politics typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.

Left-wing politics - Wikipedia

When taken to its extreme (Communism for example), this equality and egalitarianism is enforced, which results in persecution for many (at which point it stops being egalitarian).

On the other side of the spectrum:

Right wing: Believe hierarchies are inevitable, or even desirable.

Right-wing politics embraces the view that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics, or tradition. Hierarchy and inequality may be seen as natural results of traditional social differences or competition in market economies. The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system"

Right-wing politics - Wikipedia

When taken to its extreme (Fascism, Nazism and Islamic Fundamentalism for example) this results in the persecution or even outright genocide of entire swathes of the community at the bottom of the hierarchy (usually women, disabled people, religious minorities, homosexuals and ethnic minorities).
 
Oct 2, 2007
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The terror threat from leftists is insignificant in Australia

See, there you go! That's twice now.

In the US the Homeland Threat Assessment reported on the rising trend of exploitation by the far left

So you keep saying but you havent put up any proof yet.

Show me where (in the US Homeland Threat Assessment) it mentions 'the far left'.

Not 'anarchists'' or 'anti-government'. Show me where it says 'the far Left' or even just 'Left'.
 
Jun 30, 2009
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See, there you go! That's twice now.



So you keep saying but you havent put up any proof yet.

Show me where (in the US Homeland Threat Assessment) it mentions 'the far left'.

Not 'anarchists'' or 'anti-government'. Show me where it says 'the far Left' or even just 'Left'.
Sky news...
 
Jun 30, 2009
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Dear God. Another one.

How is hatred of the freedom of individuals and the rule of law associate with the "right"?

Arts Degree by any chance?

#flatearther
6A144F02-8680-447C-8D5F-262D4C6A50BC.jpeg


HOw is hATreD of The FreEDom oF indIviduAls ANd the RuLe of lAW aSsociAtE wItH tHe rIgHt
 
Jun 6, 2016
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Seems funny that we can have no hesitation in branding right wing christian groups as right wing when all their sympathies are with right wing authoritarian politics, religious control over peoples lives to an extreme degree and mixing of church and state

yet feel differently about their mirror image in muslim groups who express the same sort of absolute religion and state authoritarian control.

especially made easy by the lefts largely atheist / agnostic / clear separation of church and state beliefs.

Agreed, anyone who thinks christian groups or religious groups for that matter don't want control they need to think again.
 
Jun 6, 2016
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Left wing: Believe in equality and justice for all, and oppose social hierarchies.



Left-wing politics - Wikipedia

When taken to its extreme (Communism for example), this equality and egalitarianism is enforced, which results in persecution for many (at which point it stops being egalitarian).

On the other side of the spectrum:

Right wing: Believe hierarchies are inevitable, or even desirable.



Right-wing politics - Wikipedia

When taken to its extreme (Fascism, Nazism and Islamic Fundamentalism for example) this results in the persecution or even outright genocide of entire swathes of the community at the bottom of the hierarchy (usually women, disabled people, religious minorities, homosexuals and ethnic minorities).

Yeah that's a pretty good summation, the problem begins when you go further on the limb the further extreme you go to achieve the ideal for everybody. Even if that is a goal purely from an empathetic stand point, you subconsciously do and believe bad to reach ideal. It's a bad trade off and usually effects innocent others.

This is why I try and stay centred with a practical point of view, I know being centred is not sexy or makes 'noise' but at least it's where most of us like to live and laugh at w******* going into the Grampians wearing weird garb and looking like w*******.

Point is I really think far ends of left or right should not be given oxygen, because the more they get the more they think they are right or 'sensibly centred' according to their ideal.

So if you ask me I don't equate left wing extremists with right wing ones, both sets of nutjobs in noisy minorities with completely different ideals.
 
Yeah that's a pretty good summation, the problem begins when you go further on the limb the further extreme you go to achieve the ideal for everybody. Even if that is a goal purely from an empathetic stand point, you subconsciously do and believe bad to reach ideal. It's a bad trade off and usually effects innocent others.

This is why I try and stay centred with a practical point of view, I know being centred is not sexy or makes 'noise' but at least it's where most of us like to live and laugh at w******* going into the Grampians wearing weird garb and looking like w*******.

Point is I really think far ends of left or right should not be given oxygen, because the more they get the more they think they are right or 'sensibly centred' according to their ideal.

So if you ask me I don't equate left wing extremists with right wing ones, both sets of nutjobs in noisy minorities with completely different ideals.
The extremes of both are characterised by an 'anti-science' stance, so I have some sympathy for horseshoe theory.

You could go to Northern NSW and find pro-crystal, pro-reiki, anti-vax anti-5G communities.
On the extreme right you have anti-vaxxers as well, with anti-climate change types thrown in. There's an anti-5G element there too.
 
Jun 6, 2016
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The extremes of both are characterised by an 'anti-science' stance, so I have some sympathy for horseshoe theory.

You could go to Northern NSW and find pro-crystal, pro-reiki, anti-vax anti-5G communities.
On the extreme right you have anti-vaxxers as well, with anti-climate change types thrown in. There's an anti-5G element there too.

Ah yes, there's lot of 'grey' of varying degrees in the left v right (black & white).

For example that some believe that Islamist extremists as one or the other - even though they have what western society would call right leaning conservative views (women as 2nd class citizens etc.), some believe they're left aligned because of all things anti western, so I don't see that argument hold any weight.

Some might call them confused, but still a good example of varying opinions of what is left or right. Islamist extremists are good example of they're not really either certainly from a lens that is a liberal democratic western society.

Your example above could be argued as neither as well, for example your pro reiki tarot card reader doesn't really have any extreme ideological will nor does the conspiracy theory boomer white guy. They're just stupid or easily influenced, not really out for wearing silly garb in hills sprouting white supremacy or actively attacking innocent law abiding white folk coz they're white.
 
Jun 30, 2009
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Dear God. Another one.

How is hatred of the freedom of individuals and the rule of law associate with the "right"?

Arts Degree by any chance?

#flatearther


HOw is hATreD of The FreEDom oF indIviduAls ANd the RuLe of lAW aSsociAtE wItH tHe rIgHt

<<<The dismissal of the Whitlam government on November 11, 1975, is singularly important to Australian history.

Even now, this severe test of our democratic institutions is poorly grasped. Our haziness around the facts has led to many rationalising the dismissal. These rationalisations focus on Whitlam's personality, his alleged lack of strategy or claims that the government was "disintegrating anyway".

None of this is adequate — these rationalisations show a troublingly casual disregard for democratic process.

But facing the facts of our past can teach us how to better face the present. Without a clear grasp of the facts, our interpretations of political events are bound to go astray.

In a time of "fake news", it is crucial that we remain committed to the facts — whether they tell us what we want to hear or not.

Here are five facts you need to know to understand why Whitlam's dismissal matters.

Gough Whitlam listens to dismissal announcement
Gough Whitlam was dismissed as prime minister by then governor-general Sir John Kerr.(Australian Information Service, National Library Of Australia Collection)
1. The 'supply crisis' was actually over

In the weeks before Whitlam's dismissal, the Senate was frozen. The Liberal opposition were starving the government of funds by repeatedly deferring the vote on its money bills, creating a "supply crisis".

In response, Whitlam called a half-Senate election. Governor-general John Kerr agreed and was exchanging draft documentation with Whitlam — it was already being announced on ABC radio's PM program.

The Liberal Coalition had used the same strategy to block the government in 1974. In response, Whitlam had consulted with then governor-general Paul Hasluck and called an election. The money bills were passed as soon as the election was called.

This sequence was about to be repeated in 1975. Instead, Kerr "ambushed" Whitlam, dismissing him just hours after he announced the Senate election.

2. Kerr's second dismissal

After Kerr sacked Whitlam, the House of Representatives met in the afternoon. Kerr's newly-appointed prime minister Malcolm Fraser was defeated in a "no confidence" motion.

By the afternoon, the Senate passed supply, resolving the supply crisis.

Sir John Kerr speaks in front of a microphone in the middle of the SCG during the 1974 NSWRL Grand Final.
Sir John Kerr.(National Library Of Australia/Ern McQuillan)
Next, the Speaker of the House went to advise the governor-general that the House had no confidence in the Fraser government.

Kerr simply refused to see the Speaker or receive the motion of no confidence.

In short, he rejected the democratic role of the House of Representatives in the making and unmaking of governments.

This, argues historian Jenny Hocking, was "Kerr's second dismissal: the dismissal of the Parliament".

We asked if you thought Whitlam's dismissal mattered in today's political climate. Read the comments below.
3. Kerr believed he had a green light from Buckingham Palace

Kerr's recently released papers show he was seeking advice on using the "reserve powers" to dismiss Whitlam long before was previously revealed.

This included consultations with Prince Charles, the Queen, and the Queen's private secretary, Martin Charteris.

The Palace offered to delay Kerr's recall to help the governor-general sack Whitlam before Whitlam could sack him.

The Palace didn't counsel Kerr to consult with Whitlam, nor did it contact Whitlam. Kerr took this as a green light.

4. Fraser and Kerr were in secret phone contact

Former Liberal Senate leader Reg Withers recently revealed that Kerr had already decided to act against Whitlam in the week before November 11 and Fraser was aware.

In utter disregard for our constitution and political conventions, the pair were in secret phone contact the week before the dismissal.

Their deception around this was sustained for decades.

5. Two High Court justices secretly advised Kerr

Chief Justice of the High Court Sir Garfield Barwick. (National Library of Australia, nla.obj-136609846)
Sir Garfield Barwick advised Sir John Kerr on the legality of dismissing a prime minister.(National Library Of Australia)
In an egregious breach of the separation of powers, Chief Justices Garfield Barwick and Anthony Mason advised how to dismiss a government.

Kerr's papers show Mason secretly advised him for months leading up to the dismissal, and both during and after it.

Mason even drafted a letter of dismissal for Kerr.

Mason's central role was unknown before the release of Kerr's papers.

Kerr and Barwick — a former Liberal minister — colluded to deceive the public.

By focusing attention on Barwick, they shielded Mason from public view.>>>>
 
I didn't see it mention leftist anywhere in the report. Because it doesnt mention it. It mentions anti-government protests and anarchists.

Timothy McVeigh was anti-government. So are Sovereign citizens and similar 'patriot' groups.

Are they left wing?
The fact that some people cannot simply renounce nazism and desperately try to conflate it with groups they don't like shows just how deep the problems in modern society are.
 
Jul 5, 2011
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The fact that some people cannot simply renounce nazism and desperately try to conflate it with groups they don't like shows just how deep the problems in modern society are.
I denounce Nazism with a passion, and I've realised how divisive and pointless a thread like this is. I've contributed to this division, but will no longer do so ITT. It's a thread that automatically places people on the defence, hurling about whataboutism and pitching X against Y, even those there's so much that we all agree on.
 
Sep 17, 2019
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anarchism is placed on the far-left of the political spectrum

From the HTA

DHS law enforcement officers suffered over 300 separate injuries and were assaulted with sledgehammers, commercial grade fireworks, rocks, metal pipes, improvised explosive devices, and more. This violence, perpetrated by anarchist extremists.

You deleted a word from that wiki quote. Why?


The political compass has two axis. Anarchy is represented on the Y axis.

Ok, I'll dumb it down for you. Think up/down, not left/right
 
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