Society/Culture Can we please stop equating the risk posed by left wing extremists with that of right wing extremists?

Remove this Banner Ad

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
35,833
32,823
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
I have never supported or apologised for any extremist or terrorist group.
You've been doing it the whole thread.

Unlike yourself, who defended the rioters in US cities setting dozens of properties on fire as "not violence".
For the third time, I never said anything of the sort. Im simply asking you to confirm those rioters setting properties on fire are left wing extremists.

You keep saying they are. I want proof. They look like standard run of the mill rioters and looters to me.

You have also claimed that Al Qaeda and Islamist extremists have legitimate grievances against the West - with the implication that it justifies terrorism.
Nothing justifies terrorism. Saying their grievances are justified, doesnt justify their actions.

If you murder my child, I have a legitimate grievance against you. However that doesnt excuse me murdering you in response.

See the difference?

My consistent position has been that Islamist groups have been and still represent the biggest global terror threat, particularly in Europe.
And I agree with that statement, with RW extremists are coming in a close second.

What I dont agree with (and what the whole premise of the thread is about) is that the risks of Right wing extremism and terrorism and Left wing extremism and terrorism are comparable, or that that its fair conflating the two. In Australia (for example) Salaffi Jihadis are around 60 percent of known threats and ASIO resources, with RWNJ's are the remining 40 percent.

Leftists arent even a blip on the radar.

So again, can we please stop conflating left wing terrorism with right wing terrorism. Thanks.
 

Brunswick Trap King

Putin did it
Jun 1, 2009
12,957
17,537
Brunswick
AFL Club
West Coast
Seems islamist terror groups are neither left or right and neither wants to claim 'ownership'

Must a centrist group with centrist ideals....................... oh wait!
No offence but you'd have to be very dim, like the people who call Nazis 'socialists' to associate Islamic terrorism and the left.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Carringbush2010

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 6, 2016
10,860
6,771
Perth
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Pines Football Club
No offence but you'd have to be very dim, like the people who call Nazis 'socialists' to associate Islamic terrorism and the left.
Correct I don't think they are either, my view is they're just extremist with anti 'western' views.

Don't know what label to put on them, certainly islamist extremists would be viewed as centrists by islamist extremists. But I doubt they'd be viewed as centrists in any liberal democratic society.

Do we really need to align islamist extremists as left or right anyway? And what is the actual good of labeling extreme groups as either?

Just extreme dick heads for me.
 

medusala

Hall of Famer
Aug 14, 2004
37,092
8,296
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
And the above being the case, why are you here trying to downplay Right wing extremism, and conflate it with Left wing extremism? The RWNJ's are nearly as much of a threat as ISIS and Al Queda!
You are just vomiting over people who have known people who have lost lives in London, Manchester, Boston, Sydney, Paris etc etc etc and thats before we even get to the genocide committed against Christians in the ME.
 

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
35,833
32,823
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
You are just vomiting over people who have known people who have lost lives in London, Manchester, Boston, Sydney, Paris etc etc etc.
While you conveniently gloss over Norway, Christchurch, El Paso, Pittsburg, Charleston etc etc

And you really want to talk about genocide when it comes to Right Wing Groups?
 

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
35,833
32,823
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Next thing you will have a Homer episode, put a pencil up your nose and realise that you have been a muppet for years trying to call National Socialists "right wing".
You realize posts like this make you sound like a total idiot right.

It's why I keep calling you out on it. I love watching you flag yourself as the kind of guy who thinks Nazis are 'left wing' and David Duke and the KKK and Skinheads are 'doing it wrong' when they protest opposed to the leftists.
 

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
35,833
32,823
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Seems islamist terror groups are neither left or right and neither wants to claim 'ownership'
No, they're right wing. Far right wing. Ultra conservative, reactionary, mysoginistic, homophobic, authoritarian, xenophobic, and strongly believe in a hierarchy.

You can have far right wing ultra conservative Jews as well - doesn't mean they're going to get along well with Nazis or the KKK or the Islamists, and African or Japanese based far Right wing peeps wouldn't get along with those groups either.

The Empire of Japan was a Far Right wing miltaristic, reactionary, traditionalist, authoritarian and xenophobic entity for example, but they werent fighting for 'white power' either.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
9,560
12,202
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham, Real Betis
So you agree, 40 percent of ASIO's efforts are directed at Right wing extremists, and the remaining 60 percent is directed almost solely at Salaffi Jihadis.
No.

According to the ASIO 2020 Annual Report Sunni Islamic extremism remains ASIO’s greatest concern, comprising two thirds (67%) of their investigations. All 27 groups on Australia's terror watch list are Islamist. There's a long list of Islamist terror incidents in Australia and many people jailed. Quite a few multiple terrorism offenders are scheduled for release from Australian prisons over the next five years.

One third (33%) of ASIO investigations addressed extreme right-wing individuals. There are no right wing groups on Australia's terror watch list. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the only right wing extremist to be convicted of terror offences in Australia is Phillip Galea. He had an anti-Islamic agenda, which highlights the nonsense of you attempting to conflate Islamist and extreme right wing terrorism. ASIO don't group them together - because they have different and often completely opposing goals.

Outside Australia there remains a significant Islamist terror threat in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East.

Where do the leftists come in?
The terror threat from leftists is insignificant in Australia though they have held violent protests.

In the US the Homeland Threat Assessment reported on the rising trend of exploitation by the far left of lawful protests - to cause violence, death, and destruction in American communities. In 2020 there were over 100 days of violence and destruction in US cities, targeted at government property and law enforcement officers. 300 separate injuries caused by assaults with sledgehammers, commercial grade fireworks, rocks, metal pipes, improvised explosive devices, and more.

Globally there exists a number of extreme left wing groups. In the US the list of designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations includes 7 left wing groups and 61 Islamist groups.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Ghost Patrol

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 17, 2019
5,509
10,015
AFL Club
Richmond
No.

According to the ASIO 2020 Annual Report Sunni Islamic extremism remains ASIO’s greatest concern, comprising two thirds (67%) of their investigations. All 27 groups on Australia's terror watch list are Islamist. There's a long list of Islamist terror incidents in Australia and many people jailed. Quite a few multiple terrorism offenders are scheduled for release from Australian prisons over the next five years.

One third (33%) of ASIO investigations addressed extreme right-wing individuals. There are no right wing groups on Australia's terror watch list. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the only right wing extremist to be convicted of terror offences in Australia is Phillip Galea. He had an anti-Islamic agenda, which highlights the nonsense of you attempting to conflate Islamist and extreme right wing terrorism. ASIO don't group them together - because they have different and often completely opposing goals.

Outside Australia there remains a significant Islamist terror threat in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East.



The terror threat from leftists is insignificant in Australia though they have held violent protests.

In the US the Homeland Threat Assessment reported on the rising trend of exploitation by the far left of lawful protests - to cause violence, death, and destruction in American communities. In 2020 there were over 100 days of violence and destruction in US cities, targeted at government property and law enforcement officers. 300 separate injuries caused by assaults with sledgehammers, commercial grade fireworks, rocks, metal pipes, improvised explosive devices, and more.

Globally there exists a number of extreme left wing groups. In the US the list of designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations includes 7 left wing groups and 61 Islamist groups.
So the death rate is much higher when far right wing groups are involved?
 

Carringbush2010

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 6, 2016
10,860
6,771
Perth
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Pines Football Club
No, they're right wing. Far right wing. Ultra conservative, reactionary, mysoginistic, homophobic, authoritarian, xenophobic, and strongly believe in a hierarchy.

You can have far right wing ultra conservative Jews as well - doesn't mean they're going to get along well with Nazis or the KKK or the Islamists, and African or Japanese based far Right wing peeps wouldn't get along with those groups either.

The Empire of Japan was a Far Right wing miltaristic, reactionary, traditionalist, authoritarian and xenophobic entity for example, but they werent fighting for 'white power' either.
Depends on ones view of what is left or right. Like you've stated w****** right groups wouldn't view sIslamist militants as right wing. They'd view them as a societal threat, even though similar ideological traits. Some would view them as left purely because of the 'way of life ' threat, which is stupid. I don't view Islamist extremists as left or right, just a bunch of hot headed dick heads.
 

kranky al

Premium Platinum
Jun 30, 2009
22,025
28,848
Greenough
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
east perth www.pixelpac.com.au
Depends on ones view of what is left or right. Like you've stated w****** right groups wouldn't view sIslamist militants as right wing. They'd view them as a societal threat, even though similar ideological traits. Some would view them as left purely because of the 'way of life ' threat, which is stupid. I don't view Islamist extremists as left or right, just a bunch of hot headed dick heads.
Seems funny that we can have no hesitation in branding right wing christian groups as right wing when all their sympathies are with right wing authoritarian politics, religious control over peoples lives to an extreme degree and mixing of church and state

yet feel differently about their mirror image in muslim groups who express the same sort of absolute religion and state authoritarian control.

especially made easy by the lefts largely atheist / agnostic / clear separation of church and state beliefs.
 

kranky al

Premium Platinum
Jun 30, 2009
22,025
28,848
Greenough
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
east perth www.pixelpac.com.au
Dear God. Another one.

How is hatred of the freedom of individuals and the rule of law associate with the "right"?

Arts Degree by any chance?

#flatearther
Pretty easily - see every shitpot right wing military junta in south america and the middle east where extrajudicial punishments are legal and not punished.

freedom of individuals? Are you shitting me - you have christians infiltrating right wing parties in the english speaking world with the intention of inflicting their imaginary beardy bloke in the skies made up rules on non believers. Freedom?

thee right wing is all about freedom for corporations to steal, pay no taxes, poison our environment and people without consequences

its got sfa to do with actual freedom - it frees the wealthy minority to sh*t all over everyone else.
 

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
35,833
32,823
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
According to the ASIO 2020 Annual Report Sunni Islamic extremism remains ASIO’s greatest concern, comprising two thirds (67%) of their investigations. One third (33%) of ASIO investigations addressed extreme right-wing individuals.
67 percent Islamists, 33 percent RWNJ's.

0 percent leftists.

The terror threat from leftists is insignificant
There we go. That wasn't that hard was it?

There are no right wing groups on Australia's terror watch list. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the only right wing extremist to be convicted of terror offences in Australia is Phillip Galea. He had an anti-Islamic agenda, which highlights the nonsense of you attempting to conflate Islamist and extreme right wing terrorism. ASIO don't group them together - because they have different and often completely opposing goals.
I dont know why you keep banging on about Islamists, I agree Sunni extremism is a massive terror threat. I've never suggested otherwise.

This is a thread about attempts by some Nazi apologists out there to attempt equate the risk of terrorism from the far Left with that of the far Right. Says so right in the title.

And Sunni extremists and RWNJ's dont have have different goals. They both seek to establish a patriarchal, ultra conservative, totalitarian fundamentalist/ fascist State. Where they differ is in what that State looks like (the Islamists want an 8th century Caliphate; the RWNJ's want the Third Reich 2.0).
 

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
35,833
32,823
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Depends on ones view of what is left or right.
Left wing: Believe in equality and justice for all, and oppose social hierarchies.

Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in critique of social hierarchy. Left-wing politics typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.
Left-wing politics - Wikipedia

When taken to its extreme (Communism for example), this equality and egalitarianism is enforced, which results in persecution for many (at which point it stops being egalitarian).

On the other side of the spectrum:

Right wing: Believe hierarchies are inevitable, or even desirable.

Right-wing politics embraces the view that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics, or tradition. Hierarchy and inequality may be seen as natural results of traditional social differences or competition in market economies. The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system"
Right-wing politics - Wikipedia

When taken to its extreme (Fascism, Nazism and Islamic Fundamentalism for example) this results in the persecution or even outright genocide of entire swathes of the community at the bottom of the hierarchy (usually women, disabled people, religious minorities, homosexuals and ethnic minorities).
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
9,560
12,202
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham, Real Betis
67 percent Islamists, 33 percent RWNJ's.

0 percent leftists.

There we go. That wasn't that hard was it?

I dont know why you keep banging on about Islamists, I agree Sunni extremism is a massive terror threat. I've never suggested otherwise.

This is a thread about attempts by some Nazi apologists out there to attempt equate the risk of terrorism from the far Left with that of the far Right. Says so right in the title.

And Sunni extremists and RWNJ's dont have have different goals. They both seek to establish a patriarchal, ultra conservative, totalitarian fundamentalist/ fascist State. Where they differ is in what that State looks like (the Islamists want an 8th century Caliphate; the RWNJ's want the Third Reich 2.0).
Argument by snipping what I said? A bit sh*t mate. Have another go.

According to the ASIO 2020 Annual Report Sunni Islamic extremism remains ASIO’s greatest concern, comprising two thirds (67%) of their investigations. All 27 groups on Australia's terror watch list are Islamist. There's a long list of Islamist terror incidents in Australia and many people jailed. Quite a few multiple terrorism offenders are scheduled for release from Australian prisons over the next five years.

One third (33%) of ASIO investigations addressed extreme right-wing individuals. There are no right wing groups on Australia's terror watch list. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the only right wing extremist to be convicted of terror offences in Australia is Phillip Galea. He had an anti-Islamic agenda, which highlights the nonsense of you attempting to conflate Islamist and extreme right wing terrorism. ASIO don't group them together - because they have different and often completely opposing goals.

Outside Australia there remains a significant Islamist terror threat in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East.

Malifice said:
Where do the leftists come in?
The terror threat from leftists is insignificant in Australia though they have held violent protests.

In the US the Homeland Threat Assessment reported on the rising trend of exploitation by the far left of lawful protests - to cause violence, death, and destruction in American communities. In 2020 there were over 100 days of violence and destruction in US cities, targeted at government property and law enforcement officers. 300 separate injuries caused by assaults with sledgehammers, commercial grade fireworks, rocks, metal pipes, improvised explosive devices, and more.

Globally there exists a number of extreme left wing groups. In the US the list of designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations includes 7 left wing groups and 61 Islamist groups.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
9,560
12,202
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham, Real Betis
Left wing: Believe in equality and justice for all, and oppose social hierarchies.

Left-wing politics - Wikipedia

When taken to its extreme (Communism for example), this equality and egalitarianism is enforced, which results in persecution for many (at which point it stops being egalitarian).

On the other side of the spectrum:

Right wing: Believe hierarchies are inevitable, or even desirable.

Right-wing politics - Wikipedia

When taken to its extreme (Fascism, Nazism and Islamic Fundamentalism for example) this results in the persecution or even outright genocide of entire swathes of the community at the bottom of the hierarchy (usually women, disabled people, religious minorities, homosexuals and ethnic minorities).
The end result of extreme left and right wing politics is pretty much the same.

Communism, where equality and egalitarianism is enforced, is not the left wing extreme. Stalinist totalitarianism is - characterised by overseeing mass repressions, ethnic cleansing, deportations, hundreds of thousands of executions, and famines that killed millions.
 

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
35,833
32,823
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
The terror threat from leftists is insignificant in Australia
See, there you go! That's twice now.

In the US the Homeland Threat Assessment reported on the rising trend of exploitation by the far left
So you keep saying but you havent put up any proof yet.

Show me where (in the US Homeland Threat Assessment) it mentions 'the far left'.

Not 'anarchists'' or 'anti-government'. Show me where it says 'the far Left' or even just 'Left'.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad