Society/Culture Can we please stop equating the risk posed by left wing extremists with that of right wing extremists?

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Carringbush2010

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It was because you were conflating socialism and communism with nazism and fascism. They're at completely different ends of the political spectrum.
Umm no, was not conflating anything, just pointing out that the view of say an antifa member and a neo nazi are at complete odds. Which is relevant to today's discussions, not nazism and fascism in their intended forms per se.

In other words was highlighting the horse shoe theory as the bullsh*t that it is.

Sure both antifa and neo nazi (if to use an example) are equally 'extreme' but that's where the similarity begins and ends. < Surely you agree.
 

Malifice

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Umm no, was not conflating anything, just pointing out that the view of say an antifa member and a neo nazi are at complete odds. Which is relevant to today's discussions, not nazism and fascism in their intended forms per se.
You're aware Antifa and the Nazis were fighting each other in the 30's on the streets of Germany (in scenes eerily similar to what we're seeing in contemporary USA) right?

Antifa lost that one. Hitler rose to power. Then he rounded up all the Socialists and had them shot.

Then he invaded Russia to truly stamp out the Socialists for good, which... did not end well:

1637842633048.png


In the end Antifa had the last laugh.
 

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Carringbush2010

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You're aware Antifa and the Nazis were fighting each other in the 30's on the streets of Germany (in scenes eerily similar to what we're seeing in contemporary USA) right?

Antifa lost that one. Hitler rose to power. Then he rounded up all the Socialists and had them shot.

Then he invaded Russia to truly stamp out the Socialists for good, which... did not end well:

View attachment 1287498

In the end Antifa had the last laugh.
In other words was highlighting the horse shoe theory as the bullsh*t that it is.

Sure both antifa and neo nazi (if to use an example) are equally 'extreme' but that's where the similarity begins and ends. < Surely you agree.

Not sure why you left this bit out of your reply.
 

Ghost Patrol

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You asked wtf I've been smoking in a context that suggests you disagree with my post.

Clearly I was referring to neo nazism in that reply to Seeds.

Clearly my query if you believe fringe lefties and neo nazis views are aligned is then validated.
If there were no fascists, there would be no need for anti fascists.

The only way to get rid of anti fascists, is to destroy the fascists.

Everyone who isn't a fascist, should be an anti fascist by default.

I hope this helps.
 

Malifice

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Sure both antifa and neo nazi (if to use an example) are equally 'extreme' but that's where the similarity begins and ends. < Surely you agree.
No I dont agree.

How many acts of Terrorism have Antifa sympathizers been done for in the name of the cause? Zero.

How many acts of Terrorism have the pricks they're fighting committed in the name of theirs? Dozens in the last few years alone, and rising.

There is a reason ASIO are focusing nearly half their efforts on Neo Nazis and Far Right wing groups, and Antifa hardly rates a mention.
 

Carringbush2010

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Malifice

Further, antifa has not had the last laugh.

Clearly fascism is still alive.

Antifa's sentiment is noble if you purely look at their underlying objective - unfortunately 'forced' into extremism to get the message across.

I don't agree with it, but acknowledge the reasoning.
 

Carringbush2010

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If there were no fascists, there would be no need for anti fascists.

The only way to get rid of anti fascists, is to destroy the fascists.

Everyone who isn't a fascist, should be an anti fascist by default.

I hope this helps.
In other news, water is wet and the sky is blue.

Good to see you caught up.
 

Carringbush2010

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No I dont agree.

How many acts of Terrorism have Antifa sympathizers been done for in the name of the cause? Zero.

How many acts of Terrorism have the pricks they're fighting committed in the name of theirs? Dozens in the last few years alone, and rising.

There is a reason ASIO are focusing nearly half their efforts on Neo Nazis and Far Right wing groups, and Antifa hardly rates a mention.
I'm not advocating for either the left or right here, or antifa v fascism, which you seem to be confused with.

Again, from the outset in my reply to seeds, I'm highlighting the lack of validity of the horse shoe theory.
 

Malifice

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Antifa's sentiment is noble if you purely look at their underlying objective - unfortunately 'forced' into extremism to get the message across.
No, they're forced into extremism, because Nazis dont listen to anything else.

The White Rose society in Germany (look them up) were peaceful Antifa members. They were shot and killed.
 

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Carringbush2010

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There is some validity in it actually. Stalins version of Marxist Leninism was (in many ways) not that dissimilar to Fascism.

Of course, I'm not a Communist. Not all anti-fascists are.
Yes, the validity is the extremism at both ends, may not be exactly equal in the extremism. None the less extremism at both ends. None the less that's where the similarities begin and end.

'Of course, I'm not a Communist. Not all anti-fascists are.'

This is a very simplistic statement, just about everybody apart from fascists are antifa (not 'members' but the sentiment is the same), certainly 'liberal' idealists (not the far end of the 'liberal' party - distinct difference) - to bogans to tree huggers.

Not sure what your point is.

Can we come to the conclusion, from where all this began, the point I'm making is the horse shoe theory - apart from the extremism - is bullshit. There is no known universe where fringe left and fringe right share the same views?
 

Ghost Patrol

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Can we come to the conclusion, from where all this began, the point I'm making is the horse shoe theory - apart from the extremism - is bullshit. There is no known universe where fringe left and fringe right share the same views?
They sometimes meet in the moshpit at punk rock gigs.
 

Carringbush2010

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Allow me to be clear.

Antifa are not as extreme as the Fascists they oppose. Not by a long shot.

Do you agree, yes or no?
That's not the point I'm making and you know it.

Yes antifa have been know to go to extreme lengths to get their sentiment known, it's been documented and indisputable. Not at extreme as white supremo dickwads. That's not my argument.

Again, I'm not arguing for one or the other.

I'm pointing out that the views at either end cannot be similar.
 

Malifice

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This is a very simplistic statement, just about everybody apart from fascists are antifa (not 'members' but the sentiment is the same)
You'd think so, but that's sadly not the case.

A lot more people are pro-fascism than they would care to admit. Few realize it, but they're in the ball park.

Antivaxxers, Proud Boys and other Far Right groups, and Qanon people are all arguing that a 'cabal of banking families, international financiers, Hollywood and media elites, Soros, Zuckerberg etc (so - the Jews) are behind a secret plot to (impose communism/ socialism/ great reset/ universal credit on us) or (eat and rape our children) or (both).

Its straight from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion - in fact, that's the word for word plot of the PotEoZ - the anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that Hitler and the Nazis used as the basis for their pogrom.

They all also hate Antifa. And also march side by side with people waving literal Nazi flags.

Call them out on their clear support for fascism and Nazism, and they just cant see it. They literally cant see it. They'll try and claim 'Nazis were left wing' or 'Antifa are the real Facsists' or similar blatantly untrue crap they read on social media to deflect.

The obvious, horrible truth (staring them straight in the face) is denied. And they often literally believe it when they say it.

Can we come to the conclusion, from where all this began, the point I'm making is the horse shoe theory - apart from the extremism - is bullshit. There is no known universe where fringe left and fringe right share the same views?
The views are different, but the methods and reality is the same. Id probably go further in that there are a fair few similarities in the far right (Fascism) and far left (Communism). Pogroms happen, tyranny is created, freedom is stifled.

The main difference is just in whose favor that those things happen.
 

Carringbush2010

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Antivaxxers, Proud Boys and other Far Right groups, and Qanon people are all arguing that a 'cabal of banking families, international financiers, Hollywood and media elites, Soros, Zuckerberg etc (so - the Jews) are behind a secret plot to (impose communism/ socialism/ great reset/ universal credit on us) or (eat and rape our children) or (both).
And all of them are noisy minority groups, not a reflection of wider society. Important to realize that.

The views are different, but the methods and reality is the same
And that's where it begins and ends.
 

Malifice

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Even more importantly is to realize that extreme minority groups will NOT dictate to the centred majority.
You think what happened in 1920-33 in Germany, wont happen elsewhere?

Here is one for you:

''A decaying Republic, faced by economic hardship, is beset by street battles between growing armed fascist groups and anti-fascist opponents on the other side.

Young men don uniforms and rifles stand guard at protests, ready to beat down any Socialist or sympathizer they see.

The fascists are convinced that there is a secret plot by 'international banking cabals, financiers and Media elites' to (cannibalize and rape children/ impose global socialism on us all) and that the Left and the 'financiers' are seeking to undermine and replace the White race via a 'great replacement.'

A failed coup by the fascists on the Government is thwarted, and their leader is removed. From his exile, he writes about his struggles and his vision for the future.'


Am I talking about the USA or Germany here?
 
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Carringbush2010

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You think what happened in 1920-33 in Germany, wont happen elsewhere?

Here is one for you:

''A decaying Republic, faced by economic hardship, is beset by street battles between growing armed fascist groups and anti-fascist opponents on the other side.

Young men don uniforms and rifles stand guard at protests, ready to beat down any Socialist or sympathizer they see.

The fascists are convinced that there is a secret plot by 'international banking cabals, financiers and Media elites' to (cannibalize and rape children/ impose global socialism on us all) and that the Left and the 'financiers' are seeking to undermine and replace the White race via a 'great replacement.'

A failed coup by the fascists on the Government is thwarted, and their leader is removed. From his exile, he writes a novel about his struggles and his vision for the future.'


Am I talking about the USA or Germany here?
Ahh! you're talking about exceptions to the rule.

C'mon Malifice you're talking a very high improbability here about a repeat of guys like Hitler, Himler and Geobels (not sure of correct spelling) hijacking 'socialism' by authoritarian and misinforming force.

That sh*t ain't flyin in this day and age, sure you've got Xi, Putin and Kim but by and large the western world is not going to fall for fascism anytime soon if ever.

Majority rules remember that.
 

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