Society/Culture Can we please stop equating the risk posed by left wing extremists with that of right wing extremists?

[Tas]

Ok, let's deal in facts.

Stop crying, stop begging. Produce evidence to support your feelz.
You can't. So now you need to redirect, and turn it into a 'personal attack'. 'Attack, defense'. You just need to redirect, because you cannot support your original posts. Because you have no depth, just emotional rhetoric.
You're dangerous, but already you've shown you have no real substance.

Unless you have anything intelligent to add to the conversation (my hopes are not high at this point) then I am just going to ignore you from here on, because you haven't really added anything so far.

 

[CM86]

Unless you have anything intelligent to add to the conversation (my hopes are not high at this point) then I am just going to ignore you from here on, because you haven't really added anything so far.

You need to do that, because I ruin your seemingly powerful arguments.


You stated leftist media claims conservatists as extremists, fascists, neo-nazis.
You made that point to normalise extremism.
You automatically ran from that lie.

I've asked you to provide anything that supports your foundational position. And you can't.






You've shown that you'll spend serious time and txt in this thread. You've posted multiple paragraphs to direct your position.

My point from the start was that you had no substance.
You've now repeatedly shown that you have no substance (thank you). So it doesn't matter what embarrassing technique you try to employ now. I've diminished your posts to the slime that they are.,

 

[CM86]

Ok, let's deal in facts.

I am just going to ignore you

Facts don't care about your feelz...

 

[Tas]

No it's not. 'Antifa' is a loose collective of non connected groups, espousing multiple different ideologies.

The only qualifier for membership is you oppose fascism.

That includes liberals as well as anarchists and commies, plus also your odd free market libertarian.

The Nazis were not not just opposed by the Marxists you realize? The free market liberals also went at them (and won).

That isn't much of a qualifier, everyone should oppose fascism.

Granted, all movements are subjects of many different moving parts but even leaderless movement have leaders, there are de facto leaders, people who organise, print material, influence the direction. It is not like you decide to go out demonstrating and there is magically thousands of others there, that takes organisation, coordination and leadership of sorts. The vulnerability comes at the direction those with influence have.

You don't get to lump everyone from a similar group which you oppose, like say the Freedom march nutters, who are infested with far right agitators and groups looking to recruit when the vast majority do not have any political or ideological affiliation. Do you have nuance when it comes to this leaderless "movement" as well?

The pendulum swings both ways and there are significant elements of Antifa that are anarcho-communist and it is these goals that are antithetical to a peaceful democratic nation, because our political discourse is through education, debate and elections, not through violence.

Whilst it is noble to stand up against fascism and be prepared to take arms up against it, the slippery slope is the definition of fascism or even far right, look at the unhinged theory of some people in this post as an example, out there in la la land it is probably significantly worse. People who get caught up in movements have to be very careful you do not take on a cult-like mindset and be aware for every movement there are countless people who want to direct that movement in directions the majority do not want it to go. From occupy wall street, to really every leaderless movement, has always been subverted because there are no real gatekeepers.

 

[Malifice]

That isn't much of a qualifier, everyone should oppose fascism.

Not everyone does. In fact most RWNJs on here refuse to even denounce it, even when one of them grabs a gun and blows a s**t load of people away.

Which is happening on a relatively regular basis.

Head over to 4Chan and elsewhere online. Those same flogs are fetishizing Hitler and the Nazis, and openly praising him. It's no surprise that several Fascist sympathizers/ Right wing terrorists have been radicalized on that site (Christchurch was one - he even livestreamed his massacre there).

As we speak, right now, there have been several plots by Fascists and Right wing extremists in Australia that have been foiled by ASIO that would have led to mass casualty events like Christchurch (also perpetrated by an Aussie far right wing nutter). They're being radicalized online as we speak, while arranging themselves into Proud Boy type groups (look at the *******s photographed out in the Grampians).

I get that they're largely a bunch of angry cucked little nerds who think it's edgy and cool to be a Nazi, but as Christchurch (and elsewhere) has showed, angry cucked little nerds can be quite dangerous.

 

[ChampRevesby]

No it's not. 'Antifa' is a loose collective of non connected groups, espousing multiple different ideologies.

The only qualifier for membership is you oppose fascism.

That includes liberals as well as anarchists and commies, plus also your odd free market libertarian.

The Nazis were not not just opposed by the Marxists you realize? The free market liberals also went at them (and won).

There might be liberals part of Antifa but you would be hard pressed find a main stream small L liberal politician endorsing such a group. The free market libertarians and the odd ancap (ref Michael Malice and his group) are basically fascists to Antifa.

 

[CM86]

There might be liberals part of Antifa but you would be hard pressed find a main stream small L liberal politician endorsing such a group. The free market libertarians and the odd ancap (ref Michael Malice and his group) are basically fascists to Antifa.

M Malice is a piece of s**t... He promotes dangerous ideologies.

 

[CM86]

Not everyone does. In fact most RWNJs on here refuse to even denounce it, even when one of them grabs a gun and blows a sh*t load of people away.

Which is happening on a relatively regular basis.

Head over to 4Chan and elsewhere online. Those same flogs are fetishizing Hitler and the Nazis, and openly praising him. It's no surprise that several Fascist sympathizers/ Right wing terrorists have been radicalized on that site (Christchurch was one - he even livestreamed his massacre there).

As we speak, right now, there have been several plots by Fascists and Right wing extremists in Australia that have been foiled by ASIO that would have led to mass casualty events like Christchurch (also perpetrated by an Aussie far right wing nutter). They're being radicalized online as we speak, while arranging themselves into Proud Boy type groups (look at the *******s photographed out in the Grampians).

I get that they're largely a bunch of angry cucked little nerds who think it's edgy and cool to be a Nazi, but as Christchurch (and elsewhere) has showed, angry cucked little nerds can be quite dangerous.

Too many words.


Your well though out response is giving undeserved reply to his bullshit position. He has nothing of substance. He doesn't need to defend anything, because he hasn't said anything.

Posters like jim_shoes and scoman like his post, because he says what they want to hear. And they don't care if it has no substance.

 

[Malifice]

There might be liberals part of Antifa but you would be hard pressed find a main stream small L liberal politician endorsing such a group.

Churchill was all too happy to get into bed with Antifascists back in the day.*

If you're an actual libertarian (and I'm aware most of them only are when it suits them, demanding 'freedom from the government' when its laws prohibiting racist speech, or taxing them for health care, yet are all too happy for a monolithic State when it suits their interests, with tariffs, mandatory detention, and the death penalty all fair game), your political doctrine of choice doesnt exactly go hand in hand with fascism.

The two doctrines are worlds apart.

*eventually. He initially tolerated the Nazis, found elements of them admirable, and saw them as a useful buffer against Communist expansion West

 

[Tas]

Not everyone does. In fact most RWNJs on here refuse to even denounce it, even when one of them grabs a gun and blows a sh*t load of people away.

Well, that goes without saying. Everyone should be against fascism but there are a small minority of people who would be far right, by any sane definition of it. So we have 25,000,000 people in Australia or thereabouts, how many nutters we have out there who are fascist? I have no idea and a google search on it hasn't given me anything. An ABC article last year said the Victorian police were watching hundreds of far right extremists. What would that number be nationwide at a guess? 1,000? 10,000? So anywhere from 0.004% of the population to 0.04%? Almost everyone isn't a fascist.

I am not diminishing the harm even a small minority can do, we don't have a lot of bikies either but they do a lot of damage as well. You are preaching to the choir with any sentiment you have about closely monitoring anyone with possible far right views and look out for signs of radicalisation. The only thing we really differ on is I put the far left people in the same basket, as dangerous people who are prone to being radicalised and should be monitored and brought to justice when they also break the laws.

Increase in numbers and increase in activity is definitely concerning and the authorities need to invest more resources to be on top of it. It was somewhat funny/sad that the White Roses hacked one of the agitators/recruiters in the Freedom march movement and ironically they got evidence of him messaging other nutters in his group to tone down the far right messaging/recruitment because people would be on to it right away and push back. To me this is the fascinating difference between the far right and the far left, the far right is well aware that everyone sees them as being toxic, they are just far too radicalised to ask themselves what is it about us that people find abhorrent. Far left think they are some kind of heroes that are worshipped by the masses. That isn't the case, not for those who are violent and destructive, most people can't distinguish the difference when these groups clash with others in the public, nobody knows who the fascist is and who isn't. Nobody cares either, they would rather see everyone there thrown in jail.

Which is happening on a relatively regular basis.

Head over to 4Chan and elsewhere online. Those same flogs are fetishizing Hitler and the Nazis, and openly praising him. It's no surprise that several Fascist sympathizers/ Right wing terrorists have been radicalized on that site (Christchurch was one - he even livestreamed his massacre there).

As we speak, right now, there have been several plots by Fascists and Right wing extremists in Australia that have been foiled by ASIO that would have led to mass casualty events like Christchurch (also perpetrated by an Aussie far right wing nutter). They're being radicalized online as we speak, while arranging themselves into Proud Boy type groups (look at the *******s photographed out in the Grampians).

It is awesome that ASIO and the AFP were able to bring these people to justice. Anyone who wants to fight the fascists should join ASIO or the AFP and help rid our nation of even more of them, but it has to be done via the rule of law. We can't have mobs out there taking the law into their own hands. It is the reason they hide their faces, they have intent to break laws before they even arrive.

I get that they're largely a bunch of angry cucked little nerds who think it's edgy and cool to be a Nazi, but as Christchurch (and elsewhere) has showed, angry cucked little nerds can be quite dangerous.

I read an ABC article, last year i think, where some far right nutter was deradicalised, it wasn't from beating him up in the streets, it was a program of education and psychological help. The guy was fairly young from memory, I think a lot of their bigotry and intolerance comes from ignorance and conditioning. I was always inspired by what Daryl Davis did in the USA to deradicalise KKK clansmen. I think we have come a long way with cognitive behaviour therapy, some things we once thought we could never change in people are conditions now that can be cured. There is obviously something wrong with people who have extreme views, who justify intolerance or the use of violence, find problems with society as a whole and think they are the solution for it when their own lives are a mess.

I'd like to see people get helped to become normal before they turn into monsters. Normal is a centrist position though.

 

[Malifice]

Well, that goes without saying. Everyone should be against fascism but there are a small minority of people who would be far right, by any sane definition of it. So we have 25,000,000 people in Australia or thereabouts, how many nutters we have out there who are fascist?

Enough for it to be ASIO's number 2 domestic security priority, thwarting a number of attacks from them, for one of them to murder 60 odd people in New Zealand, and for at least 1 of them (Fraser Anning) to get elected.

You dont see that as concerning at all?

 

[Eagle Wrath]

Enough for it to be ASIO's number 2 domestic security priority, thwarting a number of attacks from them, for one of them to murder 60 odd people in New Zealand, and for at least 1 of them (Fraser Anning) to get elected.

You dont see that as concerning at all?

What is number 1?

 

[Tas]

Enough for it to be ASIO's number 2 domestic security priority, thwarting a number of attacks from them, for one of them to murder 60 odd people in New Zealand, and for at least 1 of them (Fraser Anning) to get elected.

You dont see that as concerning at all?

If you read my earlier post you would have noticed that I said I am concerned about the increase in far-right activity and more should be done to counter the problem. I said "at least" our authorities take that threat seriously. I'd prefer we didn't have any extremism but at least the far right nutjobs are #2 on their priority list. My only issue is that far left extremism probably doesn't even make the list.

Far right loons are between a rock and a hard place, normal people find their views abhorrent, so they are stuck with a small number of nutjobs with zero political power if they expose their real views so they have to try and infiltrate normal circles and act like a sane human being, then try to indoctrinate and radicalise people. You aren't going to get any real political traction with such an extreme minority group, you need a significant catalyst so you can reach a significantly larger population.

What was Anning's fate when his views were exposed? Even nutty Pauline Hanson described them as straight from Goebbels' handbook. I mean the bigots, racists and homophobes of Queensland need their representation, but c'mon, we don't need someone who talks about the final solution to immigration in politics. Dumped by even the "we hate you" Bob Katter party, gone from politics, declared bankrupt, just another wart on the collective arse of this nation.

We need more of these "success" stories as a deterrent for people airing their abhorrent views.

Far right and Far left share one thing in common, they both do not like the status quo and want fundamental change and know that change can't come peacefully, because the masses are going to reject fascism or anarchy or communism or whatever ****ed up hybrid they come up with. We are working hard on keeping an eye out for these right wing nutjobs.

Forget about the anti-fascist window dressing these political groups LARP as, what are their fundamental beliefs? What political change are they trying to achieve? How are they working within the current system to undermine it to achieve their political ambition? Where is their political power, their political influence? How has it been allowed to manifest? Far right extremists might look more dangerous right now, but what happens if our society collapses and they establish Capitol Hill like occupation zones all over Australia? You think that is going to be a better outcome? CHOP was leaderless, but it ended up with leaders, those who brought the automatic weapons became the leaders. If we allow the anarchists to get what they want then watch Mad Max again because that is what we will collapse into, a lawless land where thugs rule.

I'll be long dead before things go to s**t either way, but is this really what we are going to leave future generations? After surviving the great wars to establish this time of peace, all the sacrifice so many made, just so we can drop the ball with two rank amateur extreme political groups? What a waste.

 

[Malifice]

What is number 1?

Islamic extremism, namely Salafi jihadism. Right wing terrorists are a close second.

Left wing terrorists dont even register.

 

[Malifice]

If you read my earlier post you would have noticed that I said I am concerned about the increase in far-right activity and more should be done to counter the problem. I said "at least" our authorities take that threat seriously. I'd prefer we didn't have any extremism but at least the far right nutjobs are #2 on their priority list. My only issue is that far left extremism probably doesn't even make the list.

Why would it, when there have been no attacks (or foiled attacks) by Left wing extremists, while there have been literally dozens of mass casualty attacks and foiled attacks by Right wing extremists.

It's like trying to argue Christian extremists should be getting the same level of attention from ASIO as Salafi Islamists do. One is a lot more dangerous than the other, to the point I highly doubt Christian extremists make the ASIO list at all.

 

[Eagle Wrath]

Islamic extremism, namely Salafi jihadism. Right wing terrorists are a close second.

Left wing terrorists dont even register.

So number one and 2 is based on religion and one religion only. Number 1 is obv. Number 2 is a response to number 1. Turning it into left vs right is nonsense.

 

[Malifice]

Number 2 is a response to number 1.

Are you saying Right wing extremism only exists in response to Islamic fundamentalism?

Are you serious? That's just self evidently wrong. Most Nazi types have a lot more axes to grind than simply murdering Muslims or blaming Islam, which usually only features as but one of a number of 'enemies of the State' whom they despise.

Hatred of the Jews (and blaming them for literally everything) is an obvious example.

Of course, the Islamists think the same s**t as well on that front, so ironically the number 1 and 2 terror threats have a lot more in common than either side would care to admit. Including how they radicalize new members online.

The main difference being that the Islamists dont have an axe to grind with socialists and leftists (or Nazis and fascists for that matter). The Nazis on the other hand would have leftists lined up and shot at the same time they got rid of the Jews.

 

[Eagle Wrath]

Are you saying Right wing extremism only exists in response to Islamic fundamentalism?

Are you serious? That's just self evidently wrong. Most Nazi types have a lot more axes to grind than simply murdering Muslims or blaming Islam, which usually only features as but one of a number of 'enemies of the State' whom they despise.

Hatred of the Jews (and blaming them for literally everything) is an obvious example.

Of course, the Islamists think the same sh*t as well on that front, so ironically the number 1 and 2 terror threats have a lot more in common than either side would care to admit. Including how they radicalize new members online.

The main difference being that the Islamists dont have an axe to grind with socialists and leftists (or Nazis and fascists for that matter). The Nazis on the other hand would have leftists lined up and shot at the same time they got rid of the Jews.

I think you know what im saying. THe example you keep using is the attack on the mosque and that is a response to number one from that killer.

 

[Malifice]

The example you keep using is the attack on the mosque and that is a response to number one from that killer.

That's not his ideology though. He would have just as happily gunned down leftists as Brevic did in Norway, or blown up a government building as McVeigh did in the USA, or gunned down people in a Synagogue as Bowers did in Pittsburgh.

 

[Tas]

Why would it, when there have been no attacks (or foiled attacks) by Left wing extremists, while there have been literally dozens of mass casualty attacks and foiled attacks by Right wing extremists.

It's like trying to argue Christian extremists should be getting the same level of attention from ASIO as Salafi Islamists do. One is a lot more dangerous than the other, to the point I highly doubt Christian extremists make the ASIO list at all.

Because all extremists are dangerous. It is dangerous to our democratic peaceful society because both extremes want something different. Right wing extremists want an authoritarian fascist form of government and left wing extremists want the destruction of democracy, it will either usher in authoritarian communist state or a totalitarian dictatorship or some kind of oppressive military junta.

These shithole forms of government already exist somewhere else, if people don't want democracy, they can go * off to some shithole country which murders people harvests your body parts and where almost across the board the people live in poverty. If we allow the subversion of the country over a long period of time and it results in catastrophic death and destruction, it is going to be far more problematic than small scale far right problems which we are quick to stamp out.

How many revolutions to communism or anarchy didn't didn't involve genocidal scale loss of life? You think this isn't a threat?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Because all extremists are dangerous. It is dangerous to our democratic peaceful society because both extremes want something different. Right wing extremists want an authoritarian fascist form of government and left wing extremists want the destruction of democracy, it will either usher in authoritarian communist state or a totalitarian dictatorship or some kind of oppressive military junta.

These shithole forms of government already exist somewhere else, if people don't want democracy, they can go fu** off to some shithole country which murders people harvests your body parts and where almost across the board the people live in poverty. If we allow the subversion of the country over a long period of time and it results in catastrophic death and destruction, it is going to be far more problematic than small scale far right problems which we are quick to stamp out.

How many revolutions to communism or anarchy didn't didn't involve genocidal scale loss of life? You think this isn't a threat?

Closest we have got to extreme left in Australia is extinction rebellion, and they often get arrested.

They aren't a threat to people's lives though, they really just disrupt a bit of traffic.

This false equivalence you are trying to portray is ridiculous.

 

[Tas]

Closest we have got to extreme left in Australia is extinction rebellion, and they often get arrested.

They aren't a threat to people's lives though, they really just disrupt a bit of traffic.

This false equivalence you are trying to portray is ridiculous.

Extinction Rebellion wasn't a far left ideology, it is a neutral political movement that used civil disobedience to compel governments to take action against climate change. Unless I missed something, their aim isn't to do away with democracy and usher in a regressive failed political/economic system, they just wanted current day governments to make more of an effort to address climate issues.

You actually need to look into every political group and understand what their political ambitions are. Communist and Anarchist groups have political goals and objectives outside of the normal activism and these goals are not compatible with things like democracy, property rights and enjoying the spoils of upper middle class mixed market economies.

 

[Gralin]

Yeah cool but who is trying to overthrow democracy from the left in Australia

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Another loser motivated by white replacement theory/white natonalism. Live streamed himself killing black people. Unfortunately, these people don't do violence on themselves; they do it to others.

Tucker Carlson is involved again.

Drag him out of his air conditioned office by his ******* bow tie and make sure he never has a chance to promote genocidal fantasists ever again.

 

[Gralin]

Another loser motivated by white replacement theory/white natonalism. Live streamed himself killing black people. Unfortunately, these people don't do violence on themselves; they do it to others.

Tucker Carlson is involved again.

Drag him out of his air conditioned office by his ******* bow tie and make sure he never has a chance to promote genocidal fantasists ever again.

talking about this?

Buffalo shooting: teenager accused of killing 10 in racist supermarket attack

Alleged gunman Payton Gendron, 18, charged with murder after 13 shot at store in mostly Black neighbourhood

www.theguardian.com