Can we talk about Russia and the US election?

Do you believe Russia attempted to influence the 2016 US election?

  • Yes.

  • No.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Dec 22, 2009
62,366
36,506
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
Didn't the US assist in removing the democratically elected president in Ukraine in 2014 because he was cozying up to Russia?

Nope. Yanukovych was removed by his own government for being far too blatantly corrupt. I believe even Putin was on record as saying that he couldn't possibly go on as Ukranian leader. Poroshenko was voted in - and this voting included Eastern Ukrainian areas.


There is substantial evidence of Russia interfering in the US presidential election but this does not equate to Russia getting behind Trump. You don't hear too many claims of Russia being the sole reason why Trump got elected.

I can also dispel the nonsense about Ukraine & Nazis. From Jewish leadership in Ukraine itself:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraines-jews-lambaste-putin-in-open-letter/
 
May 6, 2012
2,195
2,812
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Liverpool
Nope. Yanukovych was removed by his own government for being far too blatantly corrupt. I believe even Putin was on record as saying that he couldn't possibly go on as Ukranian leader. Poroshenko was voted in - and this voting included Eastern Ukrainian areas.


There is substantial evidence of Russia interfering in the US presidential election but this does not equate to Russia getting behind Trump. You don't hear too many claims of Russia being the sole reason why Trump got elected.

I can also dispel the nonsense about Ukraine & Nazis. From Jewish leadership in Ukraine itself:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraines-jews-lambaste-putin-in-open-letter/

Yeah he was removed by his own Government but the US was certainly involved in agitating for it, when you push out a democratically elected leader you cause a lot of angst which surely is partly to blame for the animosity with Russia after the coup.

I agree on the fact of the US election except about the claims that they caused his elections, that claim is plenty widespread if not in explicit terms definitely intimated. Regardless many countries interfered in the election to some degree or other, every time a leader in any country said something ill of Trump that is probably more impactful than a few facebook ads.
 
Dec 22, 2009
62,366
36,506
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
Yeah he was removed by his own Government but the US was certainly involved in agitating for it, when you push out a democratically elected leader you cause a lot of angst which surely is partly to blame for the animosity with Russia after the coup.

I agree on the fact of the US election except about the claims that they caused his elections, that claim is plenty widespread if not in explicit terms definitely intimated. Regardless many countries interfered in the election to some degree or other, every time a leader in any country said something ill of Trump that is probably more impactful than a few facebook ads.


Don't think you can exactly call Yanukovych as democratically elected when he had a habit of arresting his political opponents & banishing them to prison. In any case another party member took over from Yanukovych - just as Scott Morrison has just taken over from Turnbull here.

I agree that Russia was not the reason that Trump got elected although they were involved in interfering with the election.
 
Dec 22, 2009
62,366
36,506
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
lots of Jews were nazis
really you have no idea

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture...-help-the-Germans.-We-had-a-common-enemy.html


they're obviously not fighting for Germany now too

but they did support the Nazis in WW2
I think you should read up on history instead of making really basic assumptions based on narratives

Lots of? Really? Your employers didn't have to do a deal with the Nazis but were happy to do so if it meant them taking Poland and your mob taking the Baltic states. Putin is even on record defending the deal with the Nazis.
 
May 6, 2012
2,195
2,812
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Liverpool
Don't think you can exactly call Yanukovych as democratically elected when he had a habit of arresting his political opponents & banishing them to prison. In any case another party member took over from Yanukovych - just as Scott Morrison has just taken over from Turnbull here.

I agree that Russia was not the reason that Trump got elected although they were involved in interfering with the election.

I'm not 100% accross Ukraine politics so i wont pretend to be, but he won from outside of Government i know he has political history but he wasn't President in 2010 he won the election. I'll leave it here on Ukraine as i don't know enough to comment further and I'm not going to research so I'd be spewing garbage if i continue but good that we reached some consensus.
 

TheHeatleyStand

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 28, 2003
6,184
1,248
Iceland
AFL Club
Carlton

TheHeatleyStand

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 28, 2003
6,184
1,248
Iceland
AFL Club
Carlton
Lots of? Really? Your employers didn't have to do a deal with the Nazis but were happy to do so if it meant them taking Poland and your mob taking the Baltic states. Putin is even on record defending the deal with the Nazis.
by the way my friend.. I'm self employed

and remember to read a book

you'll be much better at this
 
Dec 22, 2009
62,366
36,506
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
nice deflect
but your argument doesn't stand

I doubt you've ever made one argument stick with facts

but lots of hot air



https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...top-arming-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-1.6248727

As opposed to Putin's direct henchman who is a self declared fascist and a rebel leader?


http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1394442656



Russia are far more guilty of supplying Neo Nazis weaponry. The entire leadership of DPR / LPR is based on Nazi / fascist ideologies.


In reality Ukraine does very little in trade with Israel and they aren't the ones purchasing the weapons - the ukrainian government is. Self defence groups are a problem in Ukraine - I'll give you that much -who take it upon themselves to fight off Russian aggression in Ukraine believing that the government's response is too weak. The majority of fighting is done by regular Ukrainan troops though.


I'm not posting arguments, I'm posting facts. Feel free to try and debunk them if you wish.
 

TheHeatleyStand

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 28, 2003
6,184
1,248
Iceland
AFL Club
Carlton
you're all over the place

you've lost your way

I think you better get back to the drawing board

lol

you're not messing with people that don't know what they're talking about here!
 
Dec 22, 2009
62,366
36,506
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
Yet another Russian backed group has shot down a plane.

This time Syrian govt forces have shot down one of their Russian mates:

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.rt.com/news/438686-syria-russia-s200-il20/amp/

Seems like Russians and SAM systems in a foreign country is a combination that always ends in tears.

RT's attempt to blame it on Israel is about as amateur as it gets. Trained missile operators will not mistake a IL-20 for a fighter jet and there should be an IFF system in place that prevents shoot downs of allies unless the Ruskis were operating with no transponder (happened quite a bit in the Baltic Sea from them).
 

TheHeatleyStand

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 28, 2003
6,184
1,248
Iceland
AFL Club
Carlton
Yet another Russian backed group has shot down a plane.

This time Syrian govt forces have shot down one of their Russian mates:

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.rt.com/news/438686-syria-russia-s200-il20/amp/

Seems like Russians and SAM systems in a foreign country is a combination that always ends in tears.

RT's attempt to blame it on Israel is about as amateur as it gets. Trained missile operators will not mistake a IL-20 for a fighter jet and there should be an IFF system in place that prevents shoot downs of allies unless the Ruskis were operating with no transponder (happened quite a bit in the Baltic Sea from them).
yet skirt


you mean the Israeli set it all up?
maybe

but this time it don't end well for Israel

wedges won't work
 
Dec 22, 2009
62,366
36,506
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
Sloppy Russians.

Theheatleyinternetresearchagency should be able to read this article in Russian:

https://theins.ru/politika/117161

Russian sources have leaked the paperwork for Skirpal poisoning suspects.

Contact phone number for both on their passport links back to the GRU. There is 100% certainty they are GRU agents.

Their travel itinerary over the last two years is also publically available. Quite the "tourists" these two evidently are.

We now have two Russian GRU agents on CCTV in Skripal's street two days in a row before they were poisoned. We have trace amounts detected of Novichok in the hotel room they stayed in.

OPCW have confirmed that both Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with Novichok after lab tests.

And both suspects are GRU spies who travel frequently to western nations for short periods of time.

Russia just keep on embarrassing themselves on the international stage. Any wonder why the only nations they can garner support from are the likes of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan etc etc. Even Georgia doesn't want them any longer.
 

shniko11

Beneath the blue and white
Nov 6, 2015
4,883
7,741
Australia
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Sloppy Russians.

Theheatleyinternetresearchagency should be able to read this article in Russian:

https://theins.ru/politika/117161

Russian sources have leaked the paperwork for Skirpal poisoning suspects.

Contact phone number for both on their passport links back to the GRU. There is 100% certainty they are GRU agents.

Their travel itinerary over the last two years is also publically available. Quite the "tourists" these two evidently are.

We now have two Russian GRU agents on CCTV in Skripal's street two days in a row before they were poisoned. We have trace amounts detected of Novichok in the hotel room they stayed in.

OPCW have confirmed that both Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with Novichok after lab tests.

And both suspects are GRU spies who travel frequently to western nations for short periods of time.

Russia just keep on embarrassing themselves on the international stage. Any wonder why the only nations they can garner support from are the likes of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan etc etc. Even Georgia doesn't want them any longer.
And they didn't infect themselves with a deadly Novichok, how would they do it? did they have protective suits, the two men still have the clothes they were in the pics they claimed in the interview.

Maybe they had the anti Vax in case they were infected if that's possible I don't know?!

Russia and Putin are very popular around the world. I mean if you think May, Trump and co are pulling Russia's pants down your Western research agency isn't paying you enough.

The rest of the world is laughing and it's not at Russia.
 
Last edited:
Dec 22, 2009
62,366
36,506
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
And they didn't infect themselves with a deadly Novichok, how would they do it, did they have protective suits, the two men still have the clothes they were in the pics they claimed in the interview.

Maybe they had the anti Vax in case they were infected if that's possible I don't know?!

Russia and Putin are very popular around the world. I mean if you think May, Trump and co are pulling Russia's pants down your Western research agency isn't paying you enough.

The rest of the world is laughing and it's not at Russia.

Trump & the yanks are just as stupid.
 
Feb 24, 2013
45,365
37,740
The GoldenBrown Heart of Victoria
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
Trump & the yanks are just as stupid.

All the Western governments are dumb....For allowing the private banksters to run their reserve banks.....That's why we're in all this God-damned mess to begin with.

When you renege on a fundamental tenet & responsibility of both sovereignty & independence of your own citizens, then you get all that's coming to you for being so bloody daft.
 

awaremind

Premiership Player
Aug 11, 2012
4,624
3,448
AFL Club
Fremantle
Yet another Russian backed group has shot down a plane.

This time Syrian govt forces have shot down one of their Russian mates:

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.rt.com/news/438686-syria-russia-s200-il20/amp/

Seems like Russians and SAM systems in a foreign country is a combination that always ends in tears.

RT's attempt to blame it on Israel is about as amateur as it gets. Trained missile operators will not mistake a IL-20 for a fighter jet and there should be an IFF system in place that prevents shoot downs of allies unless the Ruskis were operating with no transponder (happened quite a bit in the Baltic Sea from them).
Don’t worry C-300 is much better system comrade.
 

shniko11

Beneath the blue and white
Nov 6, 2015
4,883
7,741
Australia
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Sloppy Russians.

Theheatleyinternetresearchagency should be able to read this article in Russian:

https://theins.ru/politika/117161

Russian sources have leaked the paperwork for Skirpal poisoning suspects.

Contact phone number for both on their passport links back to the GRU. There is 100% certainty they are GRU agents.

Their travel itinerary over the last two years is also publically available. Quite the "tourists" these two evidently are.

We now have two Russian GRU agents on CCTV in Skripal's street two days in a row before they were poisoned. We have trace amounts detected of Novichok in the hotel room they stayed in.

OPCW have confirmed that both Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with Novichok after lab tests.

And both suspects are GRU spies who travel frequently to western nations for short periods of time.

Russia just keep on embarrassing themselves on the international stage. Any wonder why the only nations they can garner support from are the likes of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan etc etc. Even Georgia doesn't want them any longer.
By the way I checked the link- BELLINGCAT is an Amateur run supposedly independent source of image analysis,it's operator is a British journo Elliot Higgins. It's an online site and thinks he know about gas attacks(fake) in Syria and all thinks Ukraine.

This is your your 100pct fact on these men being assassins!

And Russia Insider is meant to be the Source to BELLINGCAT?
 
Feb 24, 2013
45,365
37,740
The GoldenBrown Heart of Victoria
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
By the way I checked the link- BELLINGCAT is an Amateur run supposedly independent source of image analysis,it's operator is a British journo Elliot Higgins. It's a online sites and thinks he know about gas attacks(fake) in Syria and all thinks Ukraine.

This is your your 100pct fact on these men being assassins!

And Russia Insider is meant to be the Source to BELLINGCAT?

Wasting your time arguing with that poster mate....Gate-keeper for the status quo.
 
Dec 22, 2009
62,366
36,506
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
By the way I checked the link- BELLINGCAT is an Amateur run supposedly independent source of image analysis,it's operator is a British journo Elliot Higgins. It's an online site and thinks he know about gas attacks(fake) in Syria and all thinks Ukraine.

This is your your 100pct fact on these men being assassins!

And Russia Insider is meant to be the Source to BELLINGCAT?

It's also being reported in Novaya Gazeta (one of the very few non Kremlin controlled media outlets left in Russia).

The passport paperwork is genuine. If you don't think it is genuine I am open to you showing me how it isn't.
 
Dec 22, 2009
62,366
36,506
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
Aug 19, 2004
34,418
14,193
Grand Finals
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Team Rafael Nadal
Assad is a disgusting pos that needs to go. Putin to his credit did try and get rid of him but he's got too much power. It is very bad news for Syria if he remains in power after the war.

The key is fair elections, unfortunately neither the US nor Russia will let that happen. US, because they want Assad gone, Russia because Assad is pretty much Putin's boytoy. Let the people have their say and not just farcical elections where Assad wins by 90 percent. Let the oppositions have a voice too. Propaganda is a terrible thing, unfortunately few people who claim to be anti-establishment here, have fallen victim to the same **** they claim they are trying to avoid
 
Last edited:

smokingjacket

Premiership Player
Mar 30, 2014
3,543
3,660
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Liverpool
The key is fair elections, unfortunately neither the US nor Russia will let that happen. US, because they want Assad gone, Russia because Assad is pretty much Putin's boytoy. Let the people have their say and not just farcical elections where Assad wins by 90 percent. Let the oppositions have a voice too. Propaganda is a terrible thing, unfortunately few people who claim to be anti-establishment here, have fallen victim to the same **** they claim they are trying to avoid
I agree somewhat but I'm not sure elections themselves should be the priority right now, as they may serve to exacerbate the sectarian split in the country. Think of all the things Syria needs to be put back together under democratic conditions right now: rehousing millions of externally and internally displaced civilians, rebuilding hundreds of billions of dollars worth of infrastructure, cleaning up battlefields of mines and unexploded ordnance, reestablishing civilian control of war zones from thousands of armed local militias, calming the deep sectarian hatreds that have reanimated in this war, finding remnant Sunni extremist cells who will try to provoke another civil war by bombing Shia like in Iraq, finding and prosecuting the war criminals from the government and the militias, reestablishing diplomacy and borders with the Kurdish population. It's an extraordinary task. It was successful in West Germany but with immense help from the US in the form of the Marshall Plan. Does Russia have the will or economic resources to pull off something similar? I don't think so.
 

shniko11

Beneath the blue and white
Nov 6, 2015
4,883
7,741
Australia
AFL Club
North Melbourne
It's also being reported in Novaya Gazeta (one of the very few non Kremlin controlled media outlets left in Russia).

The passport paperwork is genuine. If you don't think it is genuine I am open to you showing me how it isn't.
I don't have any proof whatsoever I just haven't been sold on the UK's story from the get go tbh and I'm happy to read any information I read in here to be fair to the thread.

The bottle found at the second residents poisoning sounds amatuer at best and not something a few assassins would do if they are meant to be linked.

If I change my mind I'll be happy to admit it.

Had the radio on BBC radio last night and they mentioned the Skiprals and evidence/sources through Bellingcat.

You know the saying if it looks like a duck........... I don't even think T. P believes that as Conclusive.

Imo these guys were used as Patsies to blame something on Russia before the W.C one that the UK lost in the bidding, May and Brexit were a disaster so they followed their US counterparts in blaming without any facts to take the heat off themselves.

Quack. o_O
 
Back