Can we talk about Russia and the US election?

Do you believe Russia attempted to influence the 2016 US election?

  • Yes.

  • No.


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The Delusionist

Team Captain
Nov 7, 2017
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There seems to be a lot of general agreement that Russia is attempting to influence world politics and world events. But as much as people seem to agree that Russia isn't innocent, I've seen a lot of arguments that are based on Russia being a beacon.

So I wanted to do a poll, to see how many people believed the propaganda, and how many people believed that calling propaganda was propaganda.



WASHINGTON — In September, as the first detailed evidence surfaced of Russia’s hijacking of social media in the 2016 election, Irina V. Kaverzina, one of about 80 Russians working on the project in St. Petersburg, emailed a family member with some news.​
- https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/us/politics/russia-mueller-election.html


• Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign aimed at the presidential election. The campaign was meant to hurt Clinton’s chances and help Trump. The CIA and FBI have high confidence in these findings, the NSA has moderate confidence. (Why different confidence levels between three agencies? Who knows.)

• As Clinton’s chances of winning crept upward, Russia changed tactics to undermine her predicted presidency.

• Among the participants were covert intelligence operatives as well as “Russian Government agencies, state-funded media, third-party intermediaries, and paid social media users or ‘trolls.’”

• And last but not least, Russian operatives did not mess with the vote tally, though they did obtain access to other parts of certain state and local electoral boards.​

- http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/01/report-high-confidence-russia-interfered-with-u-s-election.html

RT Conducts Strategic Messaging for Russian Government. RT's criticism of the US election was the latest facet of its broader and longer-standing anti-US messaging likely aimed at undermining viewers' trust in US democratic procedures and undercutting US criticism of Russia's political system. R

In recent interviews, RT's leadership has candidly acknowledged its mission to expand its US audience and to expose it to Kremlin messaging.

RT Leadership Closely Tied to, Controlled by Kremlin RT Editor in Chief Margarita Simonyan has close ties to top Russian Government officials, especially Presidential Administration Deputy Chief of Staff Aleksey Gromov, who reportedly manages political TV coverage in Russia and is one of the founders of RT.​
- https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf
 
I'd be shocked if Russia didn't influence the election.

but let's get real, the US, France, China, UK, Australia etc all influence other nations elections and sovereign affairs.

further, elections campaigns are just big propaganda programs where in this case the republicans, democrats, lobby groups, the media, the church, unions, charities, NGOs, ultra high nets and companies all try and influence the election.

So what is the big deal? racism? fear of the unknown? a mirror?
 

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Apparently Russia got upset because they thought the AFP were going to investigate RT (in this act verifying everything needed to know about The Russian Government and RT). But here’s a free tip for the Australian Gubmint, if you attempt to create a population of people scared of brown people, lefties and gay people who are willing to pay ~7x more for a house, you’ve pretty much primed the population for programming by any nefarious organisation, not only limited to the Australian Gubmint.
 
All those who wanted world peace and done nothing to get.

Never got world peace

If you think that to get peace you do nothing. You don't think. Are the reason we have no peace
 
All the big boys probably **** around at the edges of each other's elections, so there's little doubt.

There's plenty of doubt, & very little by way of any proof.....And hiding behind 'that's classified' won't cut it either, by way of any argument.....Appeals to authority are a logical fallacy, especially where that so-called authority needs to prove it's case to the people with facts.....Not just propaganda & empty repeated rhetorical posturing, which merely serves to insult our intelligence doubly.

No independent thinking adult person, buys these guys bullshit for a second.
 
There's plenty of doubt, & very little by way of any proof.....And hiding behind 'that's classified' won't cut it either, by way of any argument.....Appeals to authority are a logical fallacy, especially where that so-called authority needs to prove it's case to the people with facts.....Not just propaganda & empty repeated rhetorical posturing, which merely serves to insult our intelligence doubly.

No independent thinking adult person, buys these guys bullshit for a second.
Yeah it’s just a massive coincidence every populist in the world from trump to Le Pen to even Pauline Hanson constantly praise Putin. No way he is supporting them with massive campaign funding. Just a coincident.
 
Yeah it’s just a massive coincidence every populist in the world from trump to Le Pen to even Pauline Hanson constantly praise Putin. No way he is supporting them with massive campaign funding. Just a coincident.

Pauline eh?....o_O

So anyone who is anti-establishment MUST be getting funding by Putin.

You do recognize just how insane that sounds I take it.:drunk:

Seeds will pretty much buy into any dialectical premise the establishment MSM feeds him.
 
From what I understand there was a link to Russia in the leaking of information from the democratic party in the USA, which was made on the basis of program used was one that had been used by the Russians. Standard procedure politically when caught out is to blame the process.

You can avoid talking about the extra marital affair in the spa if you tell loud enough about the person who found out by looking over the fence.

The US industrial system needs a big bad wolf on the horizon to justify their spending on bombs and bolstering their military ranks. The Republicans positioned Iran to be that, Trump was going after them too.

The long play might be for Trump to make peace with all the apparent enemies that are put up while the other side question judgement on it. The closer that the USA gets to Russia the more the opposition will ramp up, even though the world gets further from war, because as soon as the enemy on the hill isn't a threat then everything based off that shadow being malevolent crumbles.

All in time for the next election.
 

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All of them backed by Putin - what a coincidence :rolleyes:

From Italy to Hungary, the Trumps of Europe Are Rising to Power

http://inthesetimes.com/article/21269/from-italy-to-hungary-the-trumps-of-europe-are-rising-to-power
Shallow analysis. Easiest analogy is to use Australia as an example. Putin obviously wasn't empowering One Nation when they came to prominence in the 90's. These are structural issues related to globalisation and smearing all disagreement to liberal globalisation as Russian based is already doing tremendous damage to democracy and political discourse.
 
Shallow analysis. Easiest analogy is to use Australia as an example. Putin obviously wasn't empowering One Nation when they came to prominence in the 90's. These are structural issues related to globalisation and smearing all disagreement to liberal globalisation as Russian based is already doing tremendous damage to democracy and political discourse.
Pauline Hanson never rose to power though. This is what the article is about; the Paulines of the world are now becoming more than fringe politicians.
 
The US industrial system needs a big bad wolf on the horizon to justify their spending on bombs and bolstering their military ranks. The Republicans positioned Iran to be that, Trump was going after them too.
Russia has backed the Shia in the ME and Iran, as the biggest Shi'ite power, is going to be the nexus of the global powers focus in the region. Assad is a Shi'ite power, ditto Hamas hence we have Israel supporting ISIS in Syria while the US says nothing as they desperately need access to Turkish airspace.

Russia now has the US questioning the veracity of the strength of NATO at the same time is it clear that Germany needs Russia's energy and Russia needs the energy exports to Germany. They got the result they wanted in Chechnya, they got their buffer in the Ukraine (and their 24/7 access to the Caspian Sea) and their proxy battle in Syria to forge a Shia supply line from Tehran to Damascus. All without having to bother with unfettered free and fair elections.
Putin is playing the US like a fiddle and ever more has US conservatives applauding him for doing so.
 
Pauline Hanson never rose to power though. This is what the article is about; the Paulines of the world are now becoming more than fringe politicians.
More a function of the Westminster system as opposed to multiparty coalition and proportional electoral system. Also Australia's relatively good economic recovery and performance since the Keating recession that wiped out Australia's low skill manufacturing base. Has SFA to do with Putin.
 
Yeah it’s just a massive coincidence every populist in the world from trump to Le Pen to even Pauline Hanson constantly praise Putin. No way he is supporting them with massive campaign funding. Just a coincident.
so the sovereignty of Australia isn't corrupted by USA directives?
 
how do you know this?
because of some article?

I don't think Russians care one way or the other

they know the West doesn't like them and they don't worry about it!
They don’t worry about it? Are you serious? Have you ever listened to a Putin interview or speech? Sounds like you have already been corrupted by Russian propoganda as no one can be this naive.
 
Does those USA directives give campaign funding to only one side of politics and run propaganda ads aimed at our most vulnerable? Don’t confuse diplomacy with foreign infiltration.
when did Russia fund anybody? lol

you need to show us proof!

what we do know is Australia does whatever it's told by Washington

it has been a usa vassal since WW2 when it had been a uk vassal up to then
 
They don’t worry about it? Are you serious? Have you ever listened to a Putin interview or speech? Sounds like you have already been corrupted by Russian propoganda as no one can be this naive.
I have

which speeches did you have a problem with?

you mean like the weapons of mass destruction pushed by Bush Blair and Howard?

or the Gaddafi ones?

can you expand further?
let's get into some facts and historical context shall we?
 
Shallow analysis. Easiest analogy is to use Australia as an example. Putin obviously wasn't empowering One Nation when they came to prominence in the 90's. These are structural issues related to globalisation and smearing all disagreement to liberal globalisation as Russian based is already doing tremendous damage to democracy and political discourse.
Russia was a democracy in the nineties and Putin didn’t come to power until the last month of the nineties. Plus he was a good democrat leader for the first few years of power. Plus the internet was in its infancy for f*** sake.

The Russian propaganda machine against the West is something that only took off in the last decade.
 
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