Expansion Canberra

[madmug]

Sounds good. What about Townsville and Alice Springs? Maybe North could play 2 in Darwin, 1 Springs, and since the Suns play 2 games in Darwin, have the Suns play 1 in Cairns and 1 in Townsville.

WHY TF are GC Suns selling games anywhere?

Isn't the whole point of having them, & the AFL spending like drunken sailors on them, to promote generational change for Aussie rules in that part of SEQ?

Thus wouldn't it be best if the actually focussed on their prime 'raison d'etre', & played all their home games, on the Coast?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Giants are entrenched in ACT and Western Sydney..... The only change the AFL would look at would be balance of home matches between Western Sydney and Canberra . Giants are the direct rivals of the Swans.... that's a work in progress of course.... so the aim is to grow that rivalry....Giants need both regions.

Giants are the direct

Do you mind if I ask where you're based?

Most Sydney-based Giants fans I've chatted to are growing a bit disgruntled with the Canberra relationship, especially with the four games at Manuka this year. I can't imagine many would be happy if they further balanced it to give Canberra five or six games a year (I wouldn't object though). It's hard to grow a rivalry with the Swans when you're only in the city for a quarter of your games.

I honestly think Canberra is holding GWS back.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Do you think North could become the Canberra team permanently or people wouldn't adopt them similar to sending a current club to Tassie? I reckon it's a pretty attractive proposition for north.

I don't think it'll happen. But it'd be a much more successful move than if they tried in Tasmania.

Canberrans have pretty much given up hope of our own AFL team, so getting gifted a relocation side is still a bonus, whereas Tasmania has its heart set on the Devils.

North is incredibly inoffensive, that's why they can move everywhere and still get neutral support. Nobody hates North, so it's easy for neutrals to get on board.

I'd get behind it, and I imagine much of Canberra would. They've also already got decent support in Albury if Canberra ended up playing games there.

 

[Coolangatta]

WHY TF are GC Suns selling games anywhere?

Isn't the whole point of having them, & the AFL spending like drunken sailors on them, to promote generational change for Aussie rules in that part of SEQ?

Thus wouldn't it be best if the actually focussed on their prime 'raison d'etre', & played all their home games, on the Coast?

Tell that to the AFL then, because they played two games in Darwin this year, but someone has to unless you don't think Darwin should get any AFL games at all. You might as well ask why the Giants play four games in Canberra a year, too. My guess is they do it for the $$$, the same reason as any other club.

 

[madmug]

Do you mind if I ask where you're based?

Most Sydney-based Giants fans I've chatted to are growing a bit disgruntled with the Canberra relationship, especially with the four games at Manuka this year. I can't imagine many would be happy if they further balanced it to give Canberra five or six games a year (I wouldn't object though). It's hard to grow a rivalry with the Swans when you're only in the city for a quarter of your games.

I honestly think Canberra is holding GWS back.

Like GC, why are GWS selling games anywhere?

I'd have thought with the current RU & RL contests between Canberra teams & Sydney/Qld teams, the better option would be to have Vic clubs FIFO. Thus it again becomes a contest against other Sydney clubs, or Qld clubs. ie NM or StK or whoever play mainly against GWS, SS, BL & GCS.

 

[Walshawk]

Sounds good. What about Townsville and Alice Springs? Maybe North could play 2 in Darwin, 1 Springs, and since the Suns play 2 games in Darwin, have the Suns play 1 in Cairns and 1 in Townsville.

Alice Is a tiny town with a basic ground. Townsville is NRL mad.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Like GC, why are GWS selling games anywhere?

I'd have thought with the current RU & RL contests between Canberra teams & Sydney/Qld teams, the better option would be to have Vic clubs FIFO. Thus it again becomes a contest against other Sydney clubs, or Qld clubs. ie NM or StK or whoever play mainly against GWS, SS, BL & GCS.

100% agree.

Southeast Queensland and Sydney should both be hosting 22 games a year. Can't expect AFL clubs to compete against other codes if they don't have a full-time presence.

I think GWS' Sydney support would be a lot higher now if they'd fully committed from the beginning.

 

[Walshawk]

100% agree.

Southeast Queensland and Sydney should both be hosting 22 games a year. Can't expect AFL clubs to compete against other codes if they don't have a full-time presence.

I think GWS' Sydney support would be a lot higher now if they'd fully committed from the beginning.

The club was originally called Western Sydney and still is officially. Somehow got diluted. The whole thing was not well thought through. Should have been Tassie and Canberra.

 

[Canberra Pear]

The club was originally called Western Sydney and still is officially. Somehow got diluted. The whole thing was not well thought through. Should have been Tassie and Canberra.

They talked about their reasoning of being called "Greater Western Sydney" on their podcast Here Come the Giants. Apparently their research showed a lot of people in Northwest Sydney and Southwest Sydney don't consider themselves as "Western Sydney". The NSW govt was already trying to push the term Greater Western Sydney to refer to 13 western councils, so the AFL jumped on that with the thinking it would alienate the northwest and southwest less.

The name GWS doesn't have any relevance whatsoever to the Canberra partnership. Many people conflate "GWS" with Canberra because they weren't familiar with the term before the Giants existed.

The name may have paid dividend. The Hills Shire in the northwest was their biggest Sydney membership base in 2018.

On the podcast, they mentioned it was clunky, but the idea was to grow the GIANTS brand, and reduce the use of the GWS brand. I didn't like it at first, but I think GWS is actually a good name. It's definitely grown on me and it's quite unique. It sets them apart from the Wanderers.

 

[speedpeck23]

I don't think it'll happen. But it'd be a much more successful move than if they tried in Tasmania.

Canberrans have pretty much given up hope of our own AFL team, so getting gifted a relocation side is still a bonus, whereas Tasmania has its heart set on the Devils.

North is incredibly inoffensive, that's why they can move everywhere and still get neutral support. Nobody hates North, so it's easy for neutrals to get on board.

I'd get behind it, and I imagine much of Canberra would. They've also already got decent support in Albury if Canberra ended up playing games there.

Agree, Albury is a logical move for North. If Hawthorn and North leave Tassie...... I think North should stay in Melbourne, have 2 home games Albury /Wodonga...play GWS and Sydney as Border Clashes.....then North becomes directly relevant to growing the AFL expansion....Southern NSW is a big AFL region...North has history there and the brand name works..... you could easily build a rivalry there and the AFL's money is better spent on North being a positive influence in the growth of the game rather than being dependent. North history is critical to the AFL.....you just need to grow North in the right place.

 

[Walshawk]

They talked about their reasoning of being called "Greater Western Sydney" on their podcast Here Come the Giants. Apparently their research showed a lot of people in Northwest Sydney and Southwest Sydney don't consider themselves as "Western Sydney". The NSW govt was already trying to push the term Greater Western Sydney to refer to 13 western councils, so the AFL jumped on that with the thinking it would alienate the northwest and southwest less.

The name GWS doesn't have any relevance whatsoever to the Canberra partnership. Many people conflate "GWS" with Canberra because they weren't familiar with the term before the Giants existed.

The name may have paid dividend. The Hills Shire in the northwest was their biggest Sydney membership base in 2018.

On the podcast, they mentioned it was clunky, but the idea was to grow the GIANTS brand, and reduce the use of the GWS brand. I didn't like it at first, but I think GWS is actually a good name. It's definitely grown on me and it's quite unique. It sets them apart from the Wanderers.

Yes but every time the clb is discussed or mention in any media (like the TV news), they miss a chance to mention the words 'Sydney'and 'Western Sydney'. 'GWS' is just gobbledigook.

 

[Coolangatta]

A good set-up once Tas is in could be:

Darwin - Dees x 2
Canberra - Hawks x 2, Saints x 2
Ballarat - WB x 2
Albury - North x 2
Wodonga - North x 1
Cairns - GC x 1
Newcastle - GWS x 1
Wollongong - GWS x 1

Alternatively, Saints could play twice in Bendigo while the Hawks play 4 in Canberra.

 

[Bjo187]

Yes but every time the clb is discussed or mention in any media (like the TV news), they miss a chance to mention the words 'Sydney'and 'Western Sydney'. 'GWS' is just gobbledigook.

This is spot on, the other night I was watching the national nightly news on 7 and 9 and both had a story about de goey as one of the lead stories and included how he wouldn't be playing against gws. I thought geez that is a massive marketing failure by the AFL, people not familiar with the game wouldn't even know who the hell gws are, despite living in the area. If it came up on text on the screen as western sydney giants instead, people might take more notice or at least know there is an AFL team representing their area on the national stage. Another amatuer mistake.

 

[sverik25]

Just wanted to reiterate that Bendigo should be a consideration for a secondary market if more secondary markets are needed.

In many ways it's almost identical to Ballarat.

 

[Coolangatta]

Just wanted to reiterate that Bendigo should be a consideration for a secondary market if more secondary markets are needed.

In many ways it's almost identical to Ballarat.

Yeah. After Tassie comes in, the secondary markets could look like this:

Darwin - Dees x 2
Canberra - Hawks x 4
Bendigo - Saints x 2
Ballarat - WB x 2
Albury - North x 2
Wodonga - North x 1
Cairns - GC x 1
Newcastle - GWS x 1
Wollongong - GWS x 1

If Canberra eventually gets their own team, there'd be no excuses for Bendigo to have no games.

 

[madmug]

Yeah. After Tassie comes in, the secondary markets could look like this:

Darwin - Dees x 2
Canberra - Hawks x 4
Bendigo - Saints x 2
Ballarat - WB x 2
Albury - North x 2
Wodonga - North x 1
Cairns - GC x 1
Newcastle - GWS x 1
Wollongong - GWS x 1

If Canberra eventually gets their own team, there'd be no excuses for Bendigo to have no games.

Who gets FIFO games comes down to who's paying for them.

Also what facilities they can use, for free.

 

[kranger]

Yeah. After Tassie comes in, the secondary markets could look like this:

Albury - North x 2
Wodonga - North x 1

Do Albury and Wodonga operate as two different cities?

Obviously they are on different sides of the state border, but do residents act as if it is any other city with a river in the middle?

Is there any public facilities and public transport that just operates across the border?

Regardless, I don’t see the point of making two AFL capable facilities, with only one of them hosting only 1 game.

 

[Coolangatta]

Do Albury and Wodonga operate as two different cities?

Obviously they are on different sides of the state border, but do residents act as if it is any other city with a river in the middle?

Is there any public facilities and public transport that just operates across the border?

Regardless, I don’t see the point of making two AFL capable facilities, with only one of them hosting only 1 game.

I guess so? Twin cities operating on opposite sides of the Murray River, I thought it'd be nice for both to get a game, but maybe you could go Albury x 2 and Wodonga x 2, assuming North is still going to keep playing four home non-Marvel games. Or 1 each in Albury and Wodonga.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I guess so? Twin cities operating on opposite sides of the Murray River, I thought it'd be nice for both to get a game, but maybe you could go Albury x 2 and Wodonga x 2, assuming North is still going to keep playing four home non-Marvel games. Or 1 each in Albury and Wodonga.

There's no point giving Wodonga its own games. It only takes 20 minutes to get from Wodonga to Lavington Sports Ground in Albury.

Wodonga in its own right has only 35k, so that'd be like giving Shepparton games.

Better off focusing on the one AFL-standard Albury-Wodonga ground.

 

[Coolangatta]

There's no point giving Wodonga its own games. It only takes 20 minutes to get from Wodonga to Lavington Sports Ground in Albury.

Wodonga in its own right has only 35k, so that'd be like giving Shepparton games.

Better off focusing on the one AFL-standard Albury-Wodonga ground.

Right. So if North still needed or wanted four games, they could play 2 in Darwin and 2 in Albury. Saints play 2 in Bendigo, Dees and Hawks split 2 each in Canberra, Giants focus on Sydney.

 

[Walshawk]

Right. So if North still needed or wanted four games, they could play 2 in Darwin and 2 in Albury. Saints play 2 in Bendigo, Dees and Hawks split 2 each in Canberra, Giants focus on Sydney.

Bendigo's ground is beautiful but small and without a lot of room to expand. Great city. Was Hawks territory. Would be happy to play a game there if they could get the stadium up to standard.

Lavington in Albury is AFL ready and they are keen for games.

Newcastle's ground is being upgraded but not expanded so could handle AFLW but not AFL games.

Dalton Park in Woolongong was supposed to be upgrade to AFL pre-season standard about 15 years ago but nothing ever happened with that.

 

[madmug]

Bendigo's ground is beautiful but small and without a lot of room to expand. Great city. Was Hawks territory. Would be happy to play a game there if they could get the stadium up to standard.

View attachment 1435738
Lavington in Albury is AFL ready and they are keen for games.

Newcastle's ground is being upgraded but not expanded so could handle AFLW but not AFL games.

Dalton Park in Woolongong was supposed to be upgrade to AFL pre-season standard about 15 years ago but nothing ever happened with that.

Newcastle is probably upgrading just for cricket reasons.

Anyway, the AFL approach is to try to get Government to foot the bill.

Given that, I cant see AFL footy in Newcastle for a long time to come.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Newcastle is probably upgrading just for cricket reasons.

Anyway, the AFL approach is to try to get Government to foot the bill.

Given that, I cant see AFL footy in Newcastle for a long time to come.

The Newcastle upgrade was more for AFL purposes. It was probably for cricket, too, but they actually elongated the playing surface to 157m to bring it up to AFL standard.

They've been eyeing AFLW and men's preseason matches with the new upgrade. Considering the government money gone into making it AFL-standard, I think they'd be pretty keen, too.

Newcastle's ground is being upgraded but not expanded so could handle AFLW but not AFL games.

Newcastle could probably host a regular season AFL game or two now.

Not sure whether you're talking about field size or capacity, but they've both been expanded. Its seating capacity has been expanded from 400 to 790. Still not a lot, but its surrounded by a hill, with grassed areas bringing the total capacity to about 20k. That's not too dissimilar to Albury. They've only got 1250 seats, so the majority of an AFL crowd there would be on the grassed areas, too.

Dalton Park in Woolongong was supposed to be upgrade to AFL pre-season standard about 15 years ago but nothing ever happened with that.

I think North Dalton Park would already be capable of hosting AFLW and preseason matches.

They've played a bit of BBL and WBBL there recently and made a few upgrades to accommodate that. For instance, they replaced the concrete benching with bucket seats.

It has less room than Albury or Newcastle, so combining seats with the grass area, it can supposedly fit 5.5k. The ground's record is 4,371 for a BBL match. So capable of AFLW and preseason, definitely a long way off AFL men's regular season.

 

[Canberra Pear]

An article in today's Canberra Times asked "Should the GWS Giants be the ones paying the big bucks to play in Canberra, instead of the ACT government?".

I don't think I'm allowed to post the whole article, but the main points are that Canberra is doing a lot of the heavy lifting, and the journo thinks the ACT Government should play hard-ball to get more out of the deal.

Main points:

• Manuka Oval hosted 2599 more people than Giants Stadium (across four games compared to six)
• Three of the top four highest GWS crowds were at Manuka Oval (with the third being the Sydney derby where Buddy was trying to kick his 1000th)
• Manuka averaged 3701 higher crowds than Giants Stadium

So who needs who in the AFL situation? There's an argument to be had that the Giants need Canberra more, and they should be saying, 'Please and thank you' when it comes to contract talks.
Manuka Oval produced two of the three biggest Giants home crowds this year - 11,661 and 11,207. The biggest was 25,572 at Stadium Australia against cross-town rivals the Sydney Swans.
But apart from that, the numbers at the Giants' regular home ground - the Sydney Showground - made for tough reading. The biggest showground crowd was just 8754, coming in fifth on the home grounds list behind the Swans clash and three of the four Canberra fixtures.

Will be interesting what this means with the GWS-Canberra extension which has yet to be signed. Hopefully this also gets recognised in the decision-making process for Team 20.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I was keen on the Griffins for a team name, but I've warmed to the Canberra Owls as another option.

It's a pretty unique name in pro sport, and plenty could be done with the marketing.

Canberra has a locally famous owl statue #iyky.

The owl is a symbol of wisdom, and Canberra is the most educated city in Australia (wanky, but true).

And the collective noun for owls is a parliament. That's almost too perfect.