Expansion Canberra

[Canberra Pear]

Also cricket would also have a view, as both our codes would be sharing the stadium? But 20k should meet their needs as well?

I'm sure they'd leap at 20k if the status quo was the alternative. We miss out on a lot of larger cricket matches because it's too small.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Yeah I agree actually, just over 20k capacity would be good.

I actually went down the rabbit hole of developments to Manuka the other day.

I've mentioned a couple of times that Manuka could get up to scratch for ~$60m (to a few scoffs).

But that's because the master plan is actually already half done. The former masterplan had a full cost of $90m, but $45m has already been done. So only the remaining $45m ($60m in today's dollars) would be needed to get it up to 20k.

Manuka has also received about $20m in upgrades since then that weren't in the master plan. It received a $14m new media facility, $3m for seat coverings, and they've just unveiled a new screen which I think is worth more than $2m.

There's a worry about how it would be perceived if Manuka got upgraded before the rectangular stadium, but if it keeps getting sprinkles of investment here and there, it could almost end up getting redeveloped by stealth.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

There’s an article in today’s Canberra Times about the crowds at Giants matches showing there’s a demand for a Canberra based team. Unfortunately behind a paywall

ACT fans send message to AFL in push for Canberra-based team

Crowds at Manuka Oval have been consistently strong this year.

www.canberratimes.com.au

 

[Canberra Pear]

There’s an article in today’s Canberra Times about the crowds at Giants matches showing there’s a demand for a Canberra based team. Unfortunately behind a paywall

ACT fans send message to AFL in push for Canberra-based team

Crowds at Manuka Oval have been consistently strong this year.

www.canberratimes.com.au

I know we're not supposed to post full articles, so I've tried to trim it to the essentials. I cut a bunch at the beginning about the result of the game.

Sunday's crowd was the biggest between GWS and the Suns since 2014 and ensured the club passed 10,000 spectators for all three games at Manuka Oval this year.

It also comes as the AFL continues its plan to establish a new team in Tasmania, citing the demand from locals among the reasons.

The AFL hasn't event expanded to 19 teams yet, but already talk has turned to which city is deserving of the 20th licence.

Cairns, the Northern Territory and a third team in Adelaide or Perth have all been floated, with Canberra considered an outside option.

But the ACT has a bigger population than the Northern Territory and Hobart and a proud AFL culture stretching into the Riverina.

The crowds at Giants matches have proven the support is there and the local competition continues to churn out a host of men's and women's players.

Even the presence of Manuka Oval smooths the path to entry into the AFL.

Development of Manuka Oval has proven a controversial topic in the past but plans are underway to build a new stand on the eastern side to provide spectators with covered seating.

The move has the support of the Giants, AFL and Cricket ACT and the organisations are working with the government to progress the project.

Given Manuka Oval currently holds 13,550, the new stand should bring capacity closer to 20,000 and in line with the Tasmanian stadium.

From there, all it will take is a commitment from the ACT government, the AFL and local authorities to make the dream of a Canberra team a reality.

I would absolutely love that bolded part to be true, but it very coincidentally lines up with what we've discussed about unfulfilled phases of the old master plan.

If it's true, it represents a huge leap forward, but I'm worried the journo has just looked at the old plans for Manuka and assumed they're still in motion.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I know we're not supposed to post full articles, so I've tried to trim it to the essentials. I cut a bunch at the beginning about the result of the game.




I would absolutely love that bolded part to be true, but it very coincidentally lines up with what we've discussed about unfulfilled phases of the master plan.

If it's true, it represents a huge leap forward, but I'm worried the journo has just looked at the old plans for Manuka and assumed they're still in motion.

Thanks for the summary post. As previously noted by you the 10k crowd average is despite having the lower drawing teams at Manuka. I am surprised however, that the journalist thinks Cairns, NT, Adelaide and Perth have a better chance than Canberra for being team 20 (we are considered an “outside option”). Canberra is a far stronger candidate than NT, Cairns or Adelaide, with only WA3 the serious competition?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Thanks for the summary post. As previously noted by you the 10k crowd average is despite having the lower drawing teams at Manuka. I am surprised however, that the journalist thinks Cairns, NT, Adelaide and Perth have a better chance than Canberra for being team 20 (we are considered an “outside option”). Canberra is a far stronger candidate than NT, Cairns or Adelaide, with only WA3 the serious competition?

Not sure he necessarily thinks that, or it's just commenting on what's being commented.

The NT scoping report, Cairns and Perth mayors stating their case; they all contribute to them being louder in the conversation, which I guess is all he can comment on for now.

But it's good he's pleading our case! He's got the commentary as well as the numbers. And anything that gets our case in the spotlight is a good thing.

 

[Coolangatta]

Surely if Manuka does increase capacity to 20k they'd have to seriously consider Canberra if they haven't already. Would be better if they could increase capacity to 25k one day.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I've done some more research and I have to correct myself.

I don't think there's been any funds necessarily put towards Manuka's capacity upgrade, but there's at least a push by Cricket ACT and Cricket Australia (sorry to have doubted the journo).

In 2018, the Cricket Australia CEO said the below, which would put it in the 20-21k range (and also answers MelbourneGWS earlier question).

"Ultimately we see that the ground has even greater potential, an extra 5000 or so in capacity would I think be a bit more fitting and more appropriate."

There was also a Joint Standing Committee (June, 2023) where Cricket ACT submitted documents which included the following:

Importantly, the ACT Government has a strong desire to reshape the eastern side of the ground, which would likely include a permanent grandstand facility with covered seating for spectators and fans, and appropriate corporate hospitality facilities, all designed to enhance Manuka Oval’s current reputation.

That's in line with the former master plan. There's no timeframe or commitment, but it shows that it's still the intent. And importantly, it's being led by cricket (at least publicly), which should make it much more palatable for the rectangular codes.

That same document expressed Cricket ACT's ambitions for greater national representation. Currently, the ACT is only (I think) in the Women’s National Cricket League. More national teams would give greater justification for a redevelopment.

CACT has bold ambitions to field Canberra-based sides in the men’s National Competitions (Marsh One-Day Cup and Sheffield Shield) as well as women’s and men’s teams competing in the Big Bash Leagues (domestic Twenty20 competition) in the next few years.

So, nothing concrete, but a redeveloped Manuka doesn't seem as unrealistic as it did.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Behind a paywall but things do not seem to be going well for the establishment of the Canberra based soccer Aleague team next year. Seems the deadline to get an investor has now been extended to September, but so far there has been no takers

A-Leagues set deadline for Canberra investor

A-League boss Danny Townsend wants a Canberra investor locked in before the end of September.

www.canberratimes.com.au

 

[Colonial]

Behind a paywall but things do not seem to be going well for the establishment of the Canberra based soccer Aleague team next year. Seems the deadline to get an investor has now been extended to September, but so far there has been no takers

A-Leagues set deadline for Canberra investor

A-League boss Danny Townsend wants a Canberra investor locked in before the end of September.

www.canberratimes.com.au

APL really stuffing up the A-League

 

[Canberra Pear]

Behind a paywall but things do not seem to be going well for the establishment of the Canberra based soccer Aleague team next year. Seems the deadline to get an investor has now been extended to September, but so far there has been no takers

A-Leagues set deadline for Canberra investor

A-League boss Danny Townsend wants a Canberra investor locked in before the end of September.

www.canberratimes.com.au

It basically says they're still looking for an investor in Canberra. They're optimistic, but looking at other cities just in case.

And they're a bit worried about the knockdown/rebuild plan for Bruce.

That's where AFL has an advantage. It's not dependent on a backer for its financial stability.

 

[The Educator]

APL really stuffing up the A-League

The age old problem of raising expectations too high and then failing to deliver. It seems a cultural problem with Australian soccer generally than the peak governance body (i.e. it has clearly been continued by the APL since separation)

 

[MelbourneGWS]

a record 32,704 members for the Giants with more than 6000 from Canberra

“For the second consecutive year, the GIANTS have over 6,000 passionate members based in ACT as we embark on our 12th season as the AFL team for all of Canberra.

GIANTS Break Another Record

The GIANTS have surpassed 32,700 members, setting a new membership record.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

 

[Canberra Pear]

a record 32,704 members for the Giants with more than 6000 from Canberra

“For the second consecutive year, the GIANTS have over 6,000 passionate members based in ACT as we embark on our 12th season as the AFL team for all of Canberra.

GIANTS Break Another Record

The GIANTS have surpassed 32,700 members, setting a new membership record.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

I would love there to be some research into Canberra GWS members and who they support as a first team.

6000 members is good continuous support, but I think it's using a bit of creative licence to claim them all as "passionate" when I'd say at least half would support another team first (including me and every other member I know in the real world).

 

[Div 12 Ressie]

The only thing might be Manuka Oval not being on the light rail network to provide better PT access.

I believe Manuka has the foundation to become a great stadium but if the afl were to head to Canberra there would be need for some more stands and some renovations to make it able to hold bigger crowds for at least 13 afl games a season rather than the 3 it holds now.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Giant YoYo]

I would love there to be some research into Canberra GWS members and who they support as a first team.

6000 members is good continuous support, but I think it's using a bit of creative licence to claim them all as "passionate" when I'd say at least half would support another team first (including me and every other member I know in the real world).

I, too, would be keen to see the breakdown of figures as it seems interesting. Would love to see if the % is changing more in the Giants favour as other posters have noted that there has been a shift towards Giants support over the years.

Giants v Suns game I attended seemed diluted by fans from other teams (even if the crowd attendance was decent).

 

[Canberra Pear]

I, too, would be keen to see the breakdown of figures as it seems interesting. Would love to see if the % is changing more in the Giants favour as other posters have noted that there has been a shift towards Giants support over the years.

Giants v Suns game I attended seemed diluted by fans from other teams (even if the crowd attendance was decent).

I'd say the majority of folks in Giants gear at Manuka are still primarily supporters of other teams. I always go in Giants gear unless they're playing Port. I usually bring Giants gear for whichever friend I'm trying to convert, too.

I was curious, so I put a poll on Twitter asking Canberra-based Giants members who their primary team was.

The poll's still open if any Canberra-based Giants members want to answer (but please only answer if you fit the criteria, don't ruin the data).

It's still early days; a small sample size; and likely a slightly skewed audience. But as this stage, only 1/21 Canberra-based Giants members say they support the Giants first.



I think the ratio is probably better for the Giants than the early results suggest, but it shows the majority of folks are at Manuka for the AFL first, and the Giants second. Especially when members only make up half the crowd.

 

[Thailander]

If Canberra joins the AFL, they should be a home grown franchise with the official colours of the ACT, blue white and yellow.

One thing that has always felt off about Sydney is their colours. NSW’s first team should have been a sky blue coloured franchise.

 

[Giant YoYo]

One thing that has always felt off about Sydney is their colours. NSW’s first team should have been a sky blue coloured franchise.

I believe the former guernsey was a blue colour (though not sky blue) and at some stage changed, though I am sure someone else can shed some light as to why.

After growing on me, I love the current colours. Especially the charcoal with orange.

 

[Walshawk]

If Canberra joins the AFL, they should be a home grown franchise with the official colours of the ACT, blue white and yellow.

One thing that has always felt off about Sydney is their colours. NSW’s first team should have been a sky blue coloured franchise.

Agree. Sky blue was the obvious and superior choice.

Sky blue and orange. Great combo.

 

[Walshawk]

I'd say the majority of folks in Giants gear at Manuka are still primarily supporters of other teams. I always go in Giants gear unless they're playing Port. I usually bring Giants gear for whichever friend I'm trying to convert, too.

I was curious, so I put a poll on Twitter asking Canberra-based Giants members who their primary team was.

The poll's still open if any Canberra-based Giants members want to answer (but please only answer if you fit the criteria, don't ruin the data).

It's still early days; a small sample size; and likely a slightly skewed audience. But as this stage, only 1/21 Canberra-based Giants members say they support the Giants first.

View attachment 1763973

I think the ratio is probably better for the Giants than the early results suggest, but it shows the majority of folks are at Manuka for the AFL first, and the Giants second. Especially when members only make up half the crowd.

If Canberra had a full time team, the children of those fans would eventually follow Canberra. Three games is nit enough to prise children from their parents’ teams.

 

[Canberra Pear]

If Canberra had a full time team, the children of those fans would eventually follow Canberra. Three games is nit enough to prise children from their parents’ teams.

I'd say that's accurate. I'd say kids following the Giants as a primary team is greater than adults, but still nothing like it would be for a full-time team.

The part-time team also gets barely any local press. Way less than the Raiders or Brumbies. From what I've noticed, even less than our teams in the WNBL, A-League Women's, baseball and ice hockey. You need a full-time team to compete in the public media (and subsequently win over the city).

 

[Walshawk]

I'd say that's accurate. I'd say kids following the Giants as a primary team is greater than adults, but still nothing like it would be for a full-time team.

The part-time team also gets barely any local press. Way less than the Raiders or Brumbies. From what I've noticed, even less than our teams in the WNBL, A-League Women's, baseball and ice hockey. You need a full-time team to compete in the public media (and subsequently win over the city).

As we have seen in Tasmania, FIFO teams do very little to grow the game.

 

[Canberra Pear]

The Canberra connection gave the Swans social team plenty of ammo after the GWS socials called them South Melbourne.



There was a great meme using the Canberra Giants as Mini-Me in Austin Powers, but it looks like it upset somebody because it's been taken down .

 

[Canberra Pear]

I'd say the majority of folks in Giants gear at Manuka are still primarily supporters of other teams. I always go in Giants gear unless they're playing Port. I usually bring Giants gear for whichever friend I'm trying to convert, too.

I was curious, so I put a poll on Twitter asking Canberra-based Giants members who their primary team was.

The poll's still open if any Canberra-based Giants members want to answer (but please only answer if you fit the criteria, don't ruin the data).

It's still early days; a small sample size; and likely a slightly skewed audience. But as this stage, only 1/21 Canberra-based Giants members say they support the Giants first.

View attachment 1763973

I think the ratio is probably better for the Giants than the early results suggest, but it shows the majority of folks are at Manuka for the AFL first, and the Giants second. Especially when members only make up half the crowd.

The final poll had only 11% of Canberra-based GWS members supporting the Giants as their primary team, which would extrapolate to 667 members.

Small sample size, but interesting perspective. And it shows that the Giants are definitely better off focusing on their Sydney base.