Expansion Canberra

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Canberra Pear

Debutant
Nov 26, 2016
116
142
Canberra, ACT
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
If there was a Canberra team and my club was playing there, but I was only going to head interstate twice a year, it wouldn’t be to Canberra.

Tourism has a big part to play in getting continuous crowds and support, particularly on new regions that are not footy heartlands.
Tourism is a small part of of crowds. Ideally you'd want the majority of the crowd from the home city. But in terms of tourism, nobody's travelling to Perth for a weekend game. Compared to Adelaide, Canberra's about the same distance from Melbourne and close to Sydney and Brisbane. Also, we've got the Questacon.

The idea of a team in Canberra is new fans. A new team in Perth or Adelaide will equal very few new fans, they already all follow AFL. Right now Canberra's getting crowds similar to GWS in Sydney, but without the local media promotion to compete against the Raiders and Brumbies. And without a local club to go into schools and promote the game.

Canberra has a deep footy history, but has lost ground to the rugbies. An AFL team would make it the number 1 sport again.

Canberra is full of public servant w***ers.

Not the kind of population to provide a football club with a lot of supporters.
The beauty of "public servant w***ers" is they have more money and more spare time, particularly on the weekend. As a public service w***er myself, I can tell you AFL is popular in the APS as a lot of public servants have moved from the southern states. Only anecdotal, but my particular office has more AFL fans (usually of Victorian teams) than either rugby code.
 

Bostonian

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2015
14,382
14,039
AFL Club
Carlton
The beauty of "public servant w***ers" is they have more money and more spare time, particularly on the weekend. As a public service w***er myself, I can tell you AFL is popular in the APS as a lot of public servants have moved from the southern states. Only anecdotal, but my particular office has more AFL fans (usually of Victorian teams) than either rugby code.
And what % of them will end up staying in Canberra for the rest of their lives?

I've had 3 family members who've worked as PS workers in Canberra, none have chosen to live there permanently.

Don't see the potential in a big membership base there.
 

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Strapping Young Lad

previously Messenger
Apr 19, 2006
66,723
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Your local Satanist Cabal
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Hawthorn
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Tourism is a small part of of crowds. Ideally you'd want the majority of the crowd from the home city. But in terms of tourism, nobody's travelling to Perth for a weekend game. Compared to Adelaide, Canberra's about the same distance from Melbourne and close to Sydney and Brisbane. Also, we've got the Questacon.
If I had the opportunity to travel twice a year to watch footy and make a 4-5 day trip of it, Canberra is not in the conversation.

Perth, Adelaide, Brisnane/GC, Sydney and even Tassie all get footy followers contemplating a small footy get away.
 

Canberra Pear

Debutant
Nov 26, 2016
116
142
Canberra, ACT
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
And what % of them will end up staying in Canberra for the rest of their lives?

I've had 3 family members who've worked as PS workers in Canberra, none have chosen to live there permanently.

Don't see the potential in a big membership base there.
About 30% of the Canberra workforce are public servants. Much of the 70% remaining have descended from southerners, which is why footy remains popular.

I myself moved from Adelaide, but I intend to stay here. A lot of my social group is similar, having moved from interstate, but looking to buy and settle permanently. Canberra has changed a lot and is a much more attractive place to settle than previous decades. That's why we're growing faster than Adelaide or Perth.

I would expect membership bases to at least equal GWS and the Gold Coast.

But former PS workers with Canberra connections around Australia might give a slight boost for away crowds!
 

Canberra Pear

Debutant
Nov 26, 2016
116
142
Canberra, ACT
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
If I had the opportunity to travel twice a year to watch footy and make a 4-5 day trip of it, Canberra is not in the conversation.

Perth, Adelaide, Brisnane/GC, Sydney and even Tassie all get footy followers contemplating a small footy get away.
I really don't think tourism factors that much into crowds. It'll get a boost whenever there's a new stadium (Optus, Adelaide), but it doesn't factor into the long-term plan for attendance.
 

Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
6,968
8,928
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AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
If there was a Canberra team and my club was playing there, but I was only going to head interstate twice a year, it wouldn’t be to Canberra.
Good, don't.

Tourism has a big part to play in getting continuous crowds and support, particularly on new regions that are not footy heartlands.
Canberra already has consistent crowds and support. They don't need your presence to get close to filling out Manuka every game.
 

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nick1408

Club Legend
Dec 12, 2010
1,593
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Why?
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15,000 for a game of football is a trash crowd.

The league doesn't need more teams to be propping up financially for eternity.
You're not comparing like for like though. The highest NRL average crowd is ~29k. The highest AFL average is double that. Sydney averages more than every NRL crowd. The Lions average 5000 less than the Broncos. The Suns average 170 less than the Titans.
 

Bostonian

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2015
14,382
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You're not comparing like for like though. The highest NRL average crowd is ~29k. The highest AFL average is double that. Sydney averages more than every NRL crowd. The Lions average 5000 less than the Broncos. The Suns average 170 less than the Titans.
Sydney crowd averages are pushed up because there's a bunch of travelling supporters amongst those numbers.

Its comparing a club that has been around for 40 years and only gets 15k to a game.

Who do you think is going to be paying to keep a Canberra club afloat when it costs a lot of money to keep an AFL club running and competitive?
 

nick1408

Club Legend
Dec 12, 2010
1,593
1,558
Why?
AFL Club
Richmond
Sydney crowd averages are pushed up because there's a bunch of travelling supporters amongst those numbers.

Its comparing a club that has been around for 40 years and only gets 15k to a game.

Who do you think is going to be paying to keep a Canberra club afloat when it costs a lot of money to keep an AFL club running and competitive?
The swans average ~31k, Parramatta (the highest averaging Sydney team) average ~18k. There are not 13k travelling supporters at every game.

To add some context; Storm average 18k roughly. That puts them above GCS and CWS only when compared to AFL crowds. My opinion is that Storm benefit from Melbourne people wanting to watch any live sport but I can't prove this.

To answer your question; Canberra would be funded the same way as every AFL club - through a mixture of distribution, tickets, merchandise, corporate sales and sponsorships. Distribution has a lot of caveats so cannot be guessed at what it may be, ticketing revenue depends on available tickets vs demand, cost, stadium costs etc. If a Canberra team got a stadium deal like Geelong has they will make money. If they get one like the Docklands clubs have/had then probably less likely. Merchandise, corporate and sponsorship all depend on crowd demand and team success.
 

Bostonian

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2015
14,382
14,039
AFL Club
Carlton
The swans average ~31k, Parramatta (the highest averaging Sydney team) average ~18k. There are not 13k travelling supporters at every game.

To add some context; Storm average 18k roughly. That puts them above GCS and CWS only when compared to AFL crowds. My opinion is that Storm benefit from Melbourne people wanting to watch any live sport but I can't prove this.

To answer your question; Canberra would be funded the same way as every AFL club - through a mixture of distribution, tickets, merchandise, corporate sales and sponsorships. Distribution has a lot of caveats so cannot be guessed at what it may be, ticketing revenue depends on available tickets vs demand, cost, stadium costs etc. If a Canberra team got a stadium deal like Geelong has they will make money. If they get one like the Docklands clubs have/had then probably less likely. Merchandise, corporate and sponsorship all depend on crowd demand and team success.
There's no real benefit to having an team in ACT.

Just another club that the AFL will be propping up forever, draining the limited talent pool and having an endless line of top 5 draft picks that leave once their contracts are up.

If the GC was struggling to hold onto young players with that climate and lifestyle imagine how quick they'd be wanting to get out of Canberra.
 

nick1408

Club Legend
Dec 12, 2010
1,593
1,558
Why?
AFL Club
Richmond
There's no real benefit to having an team in ACT.
Honestly, I do tend to agree with you here (the rest of what you posted I feel is subjective so won't address it). Canberra's population is projected to raise between 1%-2.1% until 2058. Treasury did a report on it a few years ago - https://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/__...81/ACT-Population-Projections-Paper-FINAL.pdf and by my very quick browsing I cannot see an argument for a Canberra team other than being an area with no AFL team currently.

Tasmania is a different kettle of fish but this isn't the thread for that discussion.
 

Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
6,968
8,928
A sugar refinery
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
15,000 for a game of football is a trash crowd.
Yeah, who needs airy-fairy things like "context" when it doesn't support the conclusion I already decided on earlier?

There's no real benefit to having an team in ACT.

Just another club that the AFL will be propping up forever, draining the limited talent pool and having an endless line of top 5 draft picks that leave once their contracts are up.
Utter BS. Not only has Canberra produced a relatively large number of AFL players considering they have teams in both rugby codes, they have higher disposable income than any other region in Australia. That's a lot of money available to spend on going to AFL games.

 

Canberra Pear

Debutant
Nov 26, 2016
116
142
Canberra, ACT
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Honestly, I do tend to agree with you here (the rest of what you posted I feel is subjective so won't address it). Canberra's population is projected to raise between 1%-2.1% until 2058. Treasury did a report on it a few years ago - https://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/__...81/ACT-Population-Projections-Paper-FINAL.pdf and by my very quick browsing I cannot see an argument for a Canberra team other than being an area with no AFL team currently.

Tasmania is a different kettle of fish but this isn't the thread for that discussion.
That's 1%-2.1% growth annually. That report has the ACT at 700k by 2058. That'd be about 800k if you include NSW towns/suburbs within 45 minutes of the city (Queanbeyan, Googong, Yass etc).

I don't want to diminish the Tasmanian bid (I fully support them getting a team first), but currently Greater Canberra has double the population of Hobart. We'd also cover the Murray-Riverina (Wagga and Albury), which has a greater population than Launceston as a secondary home.

The Riverina-Murray has a lot of top-end talent. There's 25 or so current AFL players from Canberra, or NSW west of Canberra. In terms of keeping players, you'd think being able to be 4 hours closer to your family would be a bonus.
 

Bostonian

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2015
14,382
14,039
AFL Club
Carlton
Utter BS. Not only has Canberra produced a relatively large number of AFL players considering they have teams in both rugby codes, they have higher disposable income than any other region in Australia. That's a lot of money available to spend on going to AFL games.

Yeah all those young, fit, cashed up players are going to want to stay in that bore of a town.
 

Bostonian

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2015
14,382
14,039
AFL Club
Carlton
So what? Plenty of players are from the country in general and the Riverina in particular, which is close to Canberra.
So they won't want too live in that boring as fu** place Canberra will they.

First time they are out of contract they're gone.

Play football in Melbourne or Canberra?

Real hard choice.
 

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