Expansion Canberra

[madmug]

I was keen on the Griffins for a team name, but I've warmed to the Canberra Owls as another option.

It's a pretty unique name in pro sport, and plenty could be done with the marketing.

Canberra has a locally famous owl statue #iyky.

The owl is a symbol of wisdom, and Canberra is the most educated city in Australia (wanky, but true).

And the collective noun for owls is a parliament. That's almost too perfect.

Looking at the AFL's quality nomenclature, maybe something as pathetic as 'The Canberra Senators'.

Thats about as bad as anything else they've come up with.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Looking at the AFL's quality nomenclature, maybe something as pathetic as 'The Canberra Senators'.

Thats about as bad as anything else they've come up with.

But we'd suddenly gain a decent following from Ottawa.

 

[madmug]

But we'd suddenly gain a decent following from Ottawa.

Perhaps we should start a thread with terrible ideas for AFL club names.

Canberra Bureaucrats.

Tassie Apple pips.

GC Suns

GWS Giants

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

An article in today's Canberra Times asked "Should the GWS Giants be the ones paying the big bucks to play in Canberra, instead of the ACT government?".

I don't think I'm allowed to post the whole article, but the main points are that Canberra is doing a lot of the heavy lifting, and the journo thinks the ACT Government should play hard-ball to get more out of the deal.

Main points:

• Manuka Oval hosted 2599 more people than Giants Stadium (across four games compared to six)
• Three of the top four highest GWS crowds were at Manuka Oval (with the third being the Sydney derby where Buddy was trying to kick his 1000th)
• Manuka averaged 3701 higher crowds than Giants Stadium

Will be interesting what this means with the GWS-Canberra extension which has yet to be signed. Hopefully this also gets recognised in the decision-making process for Team 20.

This is just another angle in the CT temper tantrum about the withdrawal of the rectangular City Stadium concept.

 

[Canberra Pear]

This is just another angle in the CT temper tantrum about the withdrawal of the rectangular City Stadium concept.

I'm not sure how you got that. The article doesn't mention Civic Stadium. Or any rectangular stadium. It's about how Canberra has shown more support (in attendance) than Western Sydney and has leverage for the contract extension.

But regarding the Civic stadium saga, my selfish and overly optimistic conspiracy theory is that Barr is delaying any new stadium, with the hope of getting Team 20 in Canberra, forcing an oval incorporation into any stadium design.

 

[Badger17]

But regarding the Civic stadium saga, my selfish and overly optimistic conspiracy theory is that Barr is delaying any new stadium, with the hope of getting Team 20 in Canberra, forcing an oval incorporation into any stadium design.

Moving to replace Bruce Stadium with an oval stadium would instantly unite all the rectangular sports in the region against him and Labour more broadly. It'd honestly be fascinating to see the full financial might and societal influence of the Raiders Group and the RU establishment pitted against the political establishment of the city.

Who knows how that conflict would play out, but I'd be willing to bet that it wouldn't be in the interests of the city or any of the sports or clubs involved. Sporting bodies getting involved in political partisanship rarely turns out well.

Other than bad cases of poor management and regulatory capture, there's no reason why this city couldn't maintain two reasonably sized purpose built stadiums in the future, and frankly that'd be the best outcome for all involved.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Is there any news on the extension of the current GWS deal to play in Canberra? This 10 year deal (extended to 11 to offset the COVID disruption) has expired, and the Giants have been negotiating with the ACT Barr government since early this year. The club states that the deal will be announced soon, and I will be very interested to see how long the deal will be for. If I was guessing I would imagine it would be for the term of this media deal (2031)?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Moving to replace Bruce Stadium with an oval stadium would instantly unite all the rectangular sports in the region against him and Labour more broadly. It'd honestly be fascinating to see the full financial might and societal influence of the Raiders Group and the RU establishment pitted against the political establishment of the city.

Who knows how that conflict would play out, but I'd be willing to bet that it wouldn't be in the interests of the city or any of the sports or clubs involved. Sporting bodies getting involved in political partisanship rarely turns out well.

Other than bad cases of poor management and regulatory capture, there's no reason why this city couldn't maintain two reasonably sized purpose built stadiums in the future, and frankly that'd be the best outcome for all involved.

Like I said, selfish and overly optimistic.

I can't see it actually happening. There were rumblings of a "Super Stadium" a few years back, but I don't expect anything like that will happen now. Different level of government, but Pocock would incredibly vocal against it. The best (from my again selfish view) is that they'd be pushing for a cheaper Bruce redevelopment so also ensure money for an AFL standard ground.

The stadium is my biggest worry about Canberra. No doubt we could handle two different stadiums, but I do worry about the limits of Manuka. It's already a hike to get to for busy games. Hopefully the light rail will alleviate that a bit.

And I know Footy Park was always touted, but there's been a lot of development around there recently, would there even be room any more?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Is there any news on the extension of the current GWS deal to play in Canberra? This 10 year deal (extended to 11 to offset the COVID disruption) has expired, and the Giants have been negotiating with the ACT Barr government since early this year. The club states that the deal will be announced soon, and I will be very interested to see how long the deal will be for. If I was guessing I would imagine it would be for the term of this media deal (2031)?

I've still not heard anything. They're really taking their time.

They've already announced three men's games for next year, but I haven't heard anything official about a longer-term deal. I feel there's going to be something different for it to have taken this long to negotiate/announce.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I've still not heard anything. They're really taking their time.

They've already announced three men's games for next year, but I haven't heard anything official about a longer-term deal. I feel there's going to be something different for it to have taken this long to negotiate/announce.

I suspect you may be right. I did contact the club after our CEO said it was going to be a 5 year deal during the Geelong game here, as I thought Barr would have negotiated another 10 year deal. The club then told me the deal was still being finalised. I also thought an announcement before the last AFL game vs Fremantle in Manuka, would have been ideal! I did contact the club again after the last AFLW game vs Brisbane, and they said the deal was still being finalised as it was complex and involved us, the ACT government and the AFL. I don’t know why this is taking so long, as you would think there’s agreement among all parties on GWS playing 3 games here, and Barr wanting more AFLW game here (currently just 1 game scheduled) shouldn’t raise too many issues?

 

[Canberra Pear]

I suspect you may be right. I did contact the club after our CEO said it was going to be a 5 year deal during the Geelong game here, as I thought Barr would have negotiated another 10 year deal. The club then told me the deal was still being finalised. I also thought an announcement before the last AFL game vs Fremantle in Manuka, would have been ideal! I did contact the club again after the last AFLW game vs Brisbane, and they said the deal was still being finalised as it was complex and involved us, the ACT government and the AFL. I don’t know why this is taking so long, as you would think there’s agreement among all parties on GWS playing 3 games here, and Barr wanting more AFLW game here (currently just 1 game scheduled) shouldn’t raise too many issues?

I contacted the club, too, but they denied that Tony Shepherd even said anything.

"No such announcement was made at that game.

Talks are positive but ongoing between the Giants and the ACT Government and that’s the only update available at this time."

My (again overly optimistic) hope is an announcement of a shorter extension finishing in season 2027, coinciding with the Tasmanian announcement of them starting in 2027, leaving the door open for us in 2028.

More likely, it's the AFLW. My understanding is no game was officially in the contract (as the AFLW started half a decade after the contract), so it's just making the one game official.

I don't think GWS really has capacity to share any more AFLW at the moment. They only get five home games, Canberra can't steal two, but they might be negotiating for the expected number as the season length grows.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I thought Tony Shepherd’s 5 year deal was widely reported on channel 7 when the Geelong match was being telecast? Interesting the club said that was not the case! I was surprised as I thought both us and Barr were negotiating for another 10 years - the same period as the original agreement. Yes, my understanding was that as the AFLW originated after the original GWS-ACT deal, there was a commitment made then that we would get a AFLW game in addition to playing the 3 men and 1 pre-season game in ACT from the original contract. In terms of the new deal, I had read the news item in the Canberra Times on the day of the Freo match that the ACT government wanted to also ensure that AFLW FIXTURES (plural!) were being negotiated as part of the new deal - so not sure if Barr wanted more than the already scheduled 1 AFLW game or it was a newspaper typo.

 

[Bjo187]

GWS should pull out of Canberra to allow a Canberra team to enter as team 20 and then play those 4 games at Henson Park in inner West Sydney.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I thought Tony Shepherd’s 5 year deal was widely reported on channel 7 when the Geelong match was being telecast? Interesting the club said that was not the case! I was surprised as I thought both us and Barr were negotiating for another 10 years - the same period as the original agreement. Yes, my understanding was that as the AFLW originated after the original GWS-ACT deal, there was a commitment made then that we would get a AFLW game in addition to playing the 3 men and 1 pre-season game in ACT from the original contract. In terms of the new deal, I had read the news item in the Canberra Times on the day of the Freo match that the ACT government wanted to also ensure that AFLW FIXTURES (plural!) were being negotiated as part of the new deal - so not sure if Barr wanted more than the already scheduled 1 AFLW game or it was a newspaper typo.

From memory, it was just before the St Kilda game. BT said during the game "The chairman announcing a deal tonight where they're here for another five years".

When nothing further came out of it, I even messaged BT on insta, asking if there was more info. He said "No info formally, heard Tony Shepherd announced it at last game in Canberra".

I think pretty much all reports came from what Tony said. But I can't tell if he just muddled up his words, or if he accidently let the cat out of the bag. I haven't seen any actual quotes specifying 10 years (at least recently), so I'm not sure if it has just been an assumption that's been left unchecked based on the original contract, or whether it's the actual expectation. But I guess everything is just speculation until we know more. And GWS is certainly dragging their heels with an announcement.

Regarding AFLW, I assume the season is still gradually getting longer? It might be a caveat that we get more games as more home games become available (for instance, sticking to the 4/1 split, but maybe a 4/2 split when the season extends).

 

[MelbourneGWS]

From memory, it was just before the St Kilda game. BT said during the game "The chairman announcing a deal tonight where they're here for another five years".

When nothing further came out of it, I even messaged BT on insta, asking if there was more info. He said "No info formally, heard Tony Shepherd announced it at last game in Canberra".

I think pretty much all reports came from what Tony said. But I can't tell if he just muddled up his words, or if he accidently let the cat out of the bag. I haven't seen any actual quotes specifying 10 years (at least recently), so I'm not sure if it has just been an assumption that's been left unchecked based on the original contract, or whether it's the actual expectation. But I guess everything is just speculation until we know more. And GWS is certainly dragging their heels with an announcement.

Regarding AFLW, I assume the season is still gradually getting longer? It might be a caveat that we get more games as more home games become available (for instance, sticking to the 4/1 split, but maybe a 4/2 split when the season extends).

Apologies- yes, you are correct. It was during the St Kilda match (and not Geelong) that BT stated that the chairman announced that it was a 5 year deal. And yes, it makes sense as the AFLW season expands in future, that ACT gets more AFLW games- but not sure if Barr would like the optics of having 3 men’s game (4 if you include the current pre-season game) and just 1 AFLW till then, or want more than the current scheduled 1. Note, that the Manuka AFLW game vs Brisbane had more people attend (2,342) than the combined crowd in the 2 NSW matches so far- yesterday’s game at Henson Park drew 1162, and the West Coast game (which was free entry at Giants stadium) only drew 727.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

GWS should pull out of Canberra to allow a Canberra team to enter as team 20 and then play those 4 games at Henson Park in inner West Sydney.

I definitely agree that Canberra should be Team 20 after Tasmania, but not sure if the AFL would agree or even if our ACT government will finance the bid. Given the Barr government’s commitment to parity for women’s sport, would we have an AFLW team in Canberra for a time before a men’s team? That currently happens in soccer, where we have Canberra United but no men’s team in the Aleague.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Apologies- yes, you are correct. It was during the St Kilda match (and not Geelong) that BT stated that the chairman announced that it was a 5 year deal. And yes, it makes sense as the AFLW season expands in future, that ACT gets more AFLW games- but not sure if Barr would like the optics of having 3 men’s game (4 if you include the current pre-season game) and just 1 AFLW till then, or want more than the current scheduled 1. Note, that the Manuka AFLW game vs Brisbane had more people attend (2,342) than the combined crowd in the 2 NSW matches so far- yesterday’s game at Henson Park drew 1162, and the West Coast game (which was free entry at Giants stadium) only drew 727.

I definitely agree that Canberra should be Team 20 after Tasmania, but not sure if the AFL would agree or even if our ACT government will finance the bid. Given the Barr government’s commitment to parity for women’s sport, would we have an AFLW team in Canberra for a time before a men’s team? That currently happens in soccer, where we have Canberra United but no men’s team in the Aleague.

Canberra definitely gets behind women's sport. Support is big for the Capitals in the WNBL, too. GWS' highest home AFLW crowd was in Canberra (6,460), and Manuka has three of the top four GWS home crowds.

I think it'd be pretty cool if we got an AFLW team first, with a men's team to come later. It'd give it time as the sole team in the spotlight before the men's team comes in. Manuka Oval is also already a great capacity for AFLW.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Canberra definitely gets behind women's sport. Support is big for the Capitals in the WNBL, too. GWS' highest home AFLW crowd was in Canberra (6,460), and Manuka has three of the top four GWS home crowds.

I think it'd be pretty cool if we got an AFLW team first, with a men's team to come later. It'd give it time as the sole team in the spotlight before the men's team comes in. Manuka Oval is also already a great capacity for AFLW.

And an AFLW T20 maybe easier than getting an AFL T20 team in Canberra- it will also get support and commitment across the mainstream political spectrum. The funding will be cheaper, Manuka can handle the crowds, and yes, Canberra has a good track record of supporting female sports. Once we get an AFLW Team 20, there will be an inevitable logic and a push for our own men’s T20 team in Canberra, to eventually replace the GWS AFL matches here?

 

[Tasmanian saint]

I've still not heard anything. They're really taking their time.

They've already announced three men's games for next year, but I haven't heard anything official about a longer-term deal. I feel there's going to be something different for it to have taken this long to negotiate/announce.

If the act government have ambitions to get a afl license in the short to medium term surely they realise this gws deal is a handbrake on those ambitions at the minimum they should only be signing short term deals talk of a 10 year one is madness

 

[MelbourneGWS]

If the act government have ambitions to get a afl license in the short to medium term surely they realise this gws deal is a handbrake on those ambitions at the minimum they should only be signing short term deals talk of a 10 year one is madness

I actually don’t think the ACT government have made any commitments, funding and formal backing for an AFL team based in Canberra? This is in contrast to the Tasmanian and even the Northern Territory governments. The ACT Labor government (which has been in power since 2001), seems to be happy with a long term deal with GWS to have games played here, rather than push for a permanent team based in Canberra

 

[Bjo187]

I definitely agree that Canberra should be Team 20 after Tasmania, but not sure if the AFL would agree or even if our ACT government will finance the bid. Given the Barr government’s commitment to parity for women’s sport, would we have an AFLW team in Canberra for a time before a men’s team? That currently happens in soccer, where we have Canberra United but no men’s team in the Aleague.

I don't mind the idea but there are already at least 8 too many teams in the AFL W and the low standard has killed the product. It took the men 100 years to get to 18 teams.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

I don't mind the idea but there are already at least 8 too many teams in the AFL W and the low standard has killed the product. It took the men 100 years to get to 18 teams.

Maybe the AFL were thinking short term pain = long term gain, in terms of adding all 18 clubs in AFLW.

But it should have really took its time to grow the competition, before it expanded to all 18 teams so soon.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I don't mind the idea but there are already at least 8 too many teams in the AFL W and the low standard has killed the product. It took the men 100 years to get to 18 teams.

I'd assumed if Canberra got a standalone AFLW team first, they'd enter at the same as Tassie (2027ish?) to keep the numbers even.

The comp has gone from 8 to 18 teams in five years. If this happened, it would take another five years to get from 18 to 20.

I get the worry about depth, but with the rate female participation has exploded since the start of the AFLW, I think a 20-team comp in 2027 would likely still have a higher standard than any AFLW season we've seen so far.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I actually don’t think the ACT government have made any commitments, funding and formal backing for an AFL team based in Canberra? This is in contrast to the Tasmanian and even the Northern Territory governments. The ACT Labor government (which has been in power since 2001), seems to be happy with a long term deal with GWS to have games played here, rather than push for a permanent team based in Canberra

I think the ACT Government has to remain incredibly neutral. There's two rugby teams, and a significant push for an A-League men's team. I believe the ACT government would support an AFL bid, but an unsolicited bid from the ACT government would piss a few other groups off.

There was an article in citynews in 2021 (below). To me, it read they were open if the AFL chose Canberra, but the government wouldn't be openly pursuing anything themselves.

The term "in the meantime" does sound like there's an eventual end date for the Giants though.

A Tassie club could open up an additional entrant from Canberra that has a similar population in addition to the seat of federal government to give the AFL 20 sides.

“This is largely a matter for the AFL,” an ACT government spokesperson said.

“In the meantime, the ACT has its own, albeit shared, team through its long-term partnership with the Giants.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I think the ACT Government has to remain incredibly neutral. There's two rugby teams, and a significant push for an A-League men's team. I believe the ACT government would support an AFL bid, but an unsolicited bid from the ACT government would piss a few other groups off.

There was an article in citynews in 2021 (below). To me, it read they were open if the AFL chose Canberra, but the government wouldn't be openly pursuing anything themselves.

The term "in the meantime" does sound like there's an eventual end date for the Giants though.

Fair point. I too had read the city news article, and had thought that the ACT government will not be initiating any Canberra bids, and without this government pressure and lobbying, it would be hard to get the AFL to give us a Canberra based AFL team. Like many AFL fans in Canberra, just (impatiently!) awaiting the details of the new GWS-ACT government deal…