Expansion Canberra

[Johnny Bananas]

The prevailing opinion of AFL journos seems to be the NT, which I find a bit confusing. I get that it's publicly popular, but I don't get how anybody with a supposedly intimate knowledge of the footy landscape can think that it's feasible. Is it just because they're all in the same circles so they regurgitate it once the idea is out there?

Bingo. It's a small, closed industry with a huge amount of groupthink going on. And let's be honest, footy journalists are usually not intellectuals known for detailed analysis, even with regard to what happens on the field.

 

[Coolangatta]

I contacted the Sounding Board with Damo and Hutchy about Canberra getting the next team.

This was their response on air:



I also contacted Nat Edwards. She said:



The prevailing opinion of AFL journos seems to be the NT, which I find a bit confusing. I get that it's publicly popular, but I don't get how anybody with a supposedly intimate knowledge of the footy landscape can think that it's feasible. Is it just because they're all in the same circles so they regurgitate it once the idea is out there?

Yes, I'm biased towards a Canberra side, but none of them even raised WA3, which is still a much better option than the NT.

While Canberra would absolutely get behind a team better than the NT, we're too quiet about it. Too many polite public servants. We really somebody to commission a feasibility study to show how well a team would likely do.

What does Hutchy mean by, "It’ll be the Northern Territory/Northern Australia/Northern Queensland in one."?

That it'll be a combined NT/NQ side?

That's even worse than a standalone NT side. I know I've suggested it myself in the past, but only if the side is playing 2/3 of its games up north. Imagine playing 7-8 games in the year in Darwin and 15-16 on the road? Would be awful, unless half of those "away" games were also up north, the same way Vic sides play 14+ a year in Melbourne.

And the AFL and the clubs would never allow that.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Bingo. It's a small, closed industry with a huge amount of groupthink going on. And let's be honest, footy journalists are usually not intellectuals known for detailed analysis, even with regard to what happens on the field.

True. And they're paid to know about the sport itself, not necessarily the geography of the game. Just need one journo to spread Canberra into the groupthink chamber.

 

[Coolangatta]

The prevailing opinion of AFL journos seems to be the NT, which I find a bit confusing. I get that it's publicly popular, but I don't get how anybody with a supposedly intimate knowledge of the footy landscape can think that it's feasible. Is it just because they're all in the same circles so they regurgitate it once the idea is out there?

Maybe the AFL has no intention of ever expanding beyond 20 teams, so they see NT as the last piece of the puzzle to make it "truly national" which is bullshit because you don't have the capital city in your "national" comp!

If they think they can have 19 viable clubs in 20 years time then they might be okay with NT being a big feeder club, especially with fed backing.

 

[Canberra Pear]

What does Hutchy mean by, "It’ll be the Northern Territory/Northern Australia/Northern Queensland in one."?

That it'll be a combined NT/NQ side?

That's even worse than a standalone NT side. I know I've suggested it myself in the past, but only if the side is playing 2/3 of its games up north. Imagine playing 7-8 games in the year in Darwin and 15-16 on the road? Would be awful, unless half of those "away" games were also up north, the same way Vic sides play 14+ a year in Melbourne.

And the AFL and the clubs would never allow that.

Yeah, I think that's what he meant. Northern Australia, but based in Darwin. It would be one hell of a travel schedule for the players.

 

[Coolangatta]

Yeah, I think that's what he meant. Northern Australia, but based in Darwin. It would be one hell of a travel schedule for the players.

And you can bet not a single one of them will mention the obvious if it gains traction.

 

[Coolangatta]

It's just a terrible idea. If they're really considering a northern team as early as the 2030s/40s (I know Demetriou has mentioned the NT and NQ but not Gill), then I don't see why they don't just make the NT and NQ teams 21-22 15+ years after Canberra. That's still relatively early but it's entirely possible the AFL doesn't want to keep adding more teams, in which case limiting to 22 isn't that bad.

 

[Canberra Pear]

It's just a terrible idea. If they're really considering a northern team as early as the 2030s/40s (I know Demetriou has mentioned the NT and NQ but not Gill), then I don't see why they don't just make the NT and NQ teams 21-22 15+ years after Canberra. That's still relatively early but it's entirely possible the AFL doesn't want to keep adding more teams, in which case limiting to 22 isn't that bad.

They've also got to start testing the waters more. NQ never has more than one game a year, and I don't think they're even getting one this year. Townsville's only ever hosted one game. Darwin's never hosted more than two in a year.

An entire Northern Australia team is a big jump from the current schedule.

 

[Coolangatta]

They've also got to start testing the waters more. NQ never has more than one game a year, and I don't think they're even getting one this year. Townsville's only ever hosted one game. Darwin's never hosted more than two in a year.

An entire Northern Australia team is a big jump from the current schedule.

Yeah, NQ isn’t hosting any this year. Not good for somewhere the 20th team is supposed to come from.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I recently read a convo on Twitter I thought would be relevant here.

Two Super Rugby fans (one Canberran) were debating why the Brumbies struggle with crowds.

Ironically, in the pursuit of an AFL team, Canberra has been unable to shake the perception that it's a "rugby town". But in this convo, the Canberran said the Brumbies were partially struggling because Canberra was an "AFL town".

"Local AFL comp is huge. I think one needs to live here to see/judge."

And I think that's just it. Living in Canberra, it's obvious how big footy is and how big a team would be, but to outsiders, it's default a "rugby town". We need something to shake this to get into the conversation.

 

[Bjo187]

Canberra Pear well done on getting through to them, even if they say no now, even the idea being tabled is a start. Did the question mention the logistics and financials of how much better Canberra is compared to NT?

These journos aren't very smart in my opinion. I'd try get in contact with Caro or Whateley if it's possible, they seem to have opinions the AFL actually listen to. The other one I'd try email is Tony Cochrane, he'll be on the commission soon and I think will be AFL chairman in no time. He is big on the financials of a new club stacking up and a smart businessman.

It's weird, as a successful entrepreneur, hutchie seems to have some really odd opinions on some things. I sent these bozos a question myself a few months back, it got a whole tonne of likes online and they just batted away my idea too.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I contacted the Sounding Board with Damo and Hutchy about Canberra getting the next team.

This was their response on air:



I also contacted Nat Edwards. She said:



The prevailing opinion of AFL journos seems to be the NT, which I find a bit confusing. I get that it's publicly popular, but I don't get how anybody with a supposedly intimate knowledge of the footy landscape can think that it's feasible. Is it just because they're all in the same circles so they regurgitate it once the idea is out there?

Yes, I'm biased towards a Canberra side, but none of them even raised WA3, which is still a much better option than the NT.

While Canberra would absolutely get behind a team better than the NT, we're too quiet about it. Too many polite public servants. We really somebody to commission a feasibility study to show how well a team would likely do.

Fantastic effort in getting through to them and promoting Canberra.

I think including Darwin and North Australia over Canberra is simply illogical. By all objective metrics Canberra is ahead - crowds, population, $, future trends, more games played, socioeconomic demographics etc. Its indeed mystifying why there is this preference for Darwin even if the media pundits move in the same circles, as the facts are self evident?

The only major plus for Darwin is that the NT Government is vocal on having an AFL team there.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Canberra Pear well done on getting through to them, even if they say no now, even the idea being tabled is a start. Did the question mention the logistics and financials of how much better Canberra is compared to NT?

These journos aren't very smart in my opinion. I'd try get in contact with Caro or Whateley if it's possible, they seem to have opinions the AFL actually listen to. The other one I'd try email is Tony Cochrane, he'll be on the commission soon and I think will be AFL chairman in no time. He is big on the financials of a new club stacking up and a smart businessman.

It's weird, as a successful entrepreneur, hutchie seems to have some really odd opinions on some things. I sent these bozos a question myself a few months back, it got a whole tonne of likes online and they just batted away my idea too.

I sent one very detailed email and a couple of tweets. Unfortunately, it was the tweet that got answered. At least it got some air time.

Good idea about the other journos. I haven't been able to find Caro's contact, and she's inactive on social media. Might have a better chance with Whateley.

Tony Cochrane is any interesting one. Surely, with the Suns connection, he wouldn't want them to lose the NT/North Queensland from the academy zone. I'll try find his contact.

 

[Coolangatta]

Maybe Eddie is worth a shot, he gets as crazy as me with big expansion ideas and there aren’t much bigger voices in footy media.

 

[Bjo187]

I sent one very detailed email and a couple of tweets. Unfortunately, it was the tweet that got answered. At least it got some air time.

Good idea about the other journos. I haven't been able to find Caro's contact, and she's inactive on social media. Might have a better chance with Whateley.

Tony Cochrane is any interesting one. Surely, with the Suns connection, he wouldn't want them to lose the NT/North Queensland from the academy zone. I'll try find his contact.

Lol they did the same with mine. The lady on the show read out only bits and pieces of my question, which stuffed it up and they knocked the idea on the head.

Text messages to sen when these guys are live in air often works too.

Coolangatta I think Eddie would be impossible to contact though.

 

[Coolangatta]

Lol they did the same with mine. The lady on the show read out only bits and pieces of my question, which stuffed it up and they knocked the idea on the head.

Text messages to sen when these guys are live in air often works too.

Coolangatta I think Eddie would be impossible to contact though.

Gotta reel him in with a headline about how Port should wear the prison bars every game first, then put the Canberra pitch on him before he cuts you off.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Lol they did the same with mine. The lady on the show read out only bits and pieces of my question, which stuffed it up and they knocked the idea on the head.

Text messages to sen when these guys are live in air often works too.

Coolangatta I think Eddie would be impossible to contact though.

Maybe go on who wants to be a millionaire?

Sounds ridiculous I know but Eddie has a good chat to every contestant. Would be a perfect forum to raise the matter.

 

[Coolangatta]

Maybe go on who wants to be a millionaire?

Sounds ridiculous I know but Eddie has a good chat to every contestant. Would be a perfect forum to raise the matter.

“Should Port Adelaide wear the prison bars?”

A: Yes, every game.
B: Yes, in showdowns and games against Collingwood.
C: No! (And Eddie should be CEO of the AFL).
D: Not until Canberra is the 20th team in the AFL.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Behind a paywall but it seems there’s renewed interest in the NBL expansion to include Canberra. In the absence of our government leading the push for the AFL Team 20 (unlike the NT and Tasmania governments) maybe it would need somebody like UC to push the financial case? Mind you it’s probably not realistic as the costs to run an NBL team and an AFL team are very different, and issues such as stadium upgrades require significant involvement from the ACT Government

UC open to taking on Canberra NBL licence

The University of Canberra hasn't spoken to the NBL yet, but vice-chancellor Paddy Nixon says they're open to...

www.canberratimes.com.au

 

[Canberra Pear]

Behind a paywall but it seems there’s renewed interest in the NBL expansion to include Canberra. In the absence of our government leading the push for the AFL Team 20 (unlike the NT and Tasmania governments) maybe it would need somebody like UC to push the financial case? Mind you it’s probably not realistic as the costs to run an NBL team and an AFL team are very different, and issues such as stadium upgrades require significant involvement from the ACT Government

UC open to taking on Canberra NBL licence

The University of Canberra hasn't spoken to the NBL yet, but vice-chancellor Paddy Nixon says they're open to...

www.canberratimes.com.au

Interesting. I'm still unclear on the rules for posting articles, so I've trimmed it to the essentials.

It looks like UC (University of Canberra for the unfamiliar) also has a relationship with the Brumbies. Their relationship with the Caps in the WNBL is well known (naming rights), but apparently both the Caps and Brumbies' HQs are on UC and part of its sportshub. And by the article, they're trying for something similar for the Cannons, and open to it with the A-League side.

It also mentions $50m for an upgrade to AIS Arena. It shows there's medium-level funds for upgrades, just not brand new facilities. I reckon a Manuka upgrade would be in that ballpark.

The University of Canberra hasn't spoken to the NBL yet, but vice-chancellor Paddy Nixon says they're open to discussing taking on the Canberra Cannons 2.0.

There's been work bubbling along in the background for a Canberra NBL team as well - turning back the clock to 2003 when the Cannons last graced NBL courts.

The university already owns the licence for WNBL powerhouse Canberra Capitals.

They received funding in last year's federal budget for a feasibility study on creating a hybrid basketball stadium that could convert from a show-court stadium into a community facility.

There's been rumours swirling that UC were now looking to add an NBL side to their tenants, who also included the ACT Brumbies.

But Nixon said they hadn't had discussions with the NBL.

"I'm aware that there's discussions around the Canberra Cannons ... at this point we're not in those conversations," Nixon said.

"But it would be very shortsighted not to think about where we can find sponsorship for women's basketball, how we can raise it's profile and where we can partner that will allow a more significant impact in the sport area here in Canberra.

"Always open to those conversations. Absolutely."

The NBL said the Cannons 2.0 could be up and running in less than two years, but they've called on the ACT government to fund a $50 million redevelopment of the AIS Arena.

The new basketball stadium was part of UC's second phase of their sports hub.

The first phase included the Brumbies' home, while the original plans for stage two also housed a soccer stadium that could potentially be the home base for A-League Women side Canberra United.

Nixon said a soccer stadium wasn't part of their current plans, which were solely for the basketball arena.

But it's believed UC will meet with the Australian Professional Leagues - who run the A-Leagues - at the end of March.

The university is one of five locations that will be part of a submission Canberra A-League bid leader Michael Caggiano will hand in to the APL on Monday as a possible training base for the new club.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Ivan has been very proactive about boosting the profile and obtaining support for soccer in Canberra. I don’t believe it’s a zero sum game, where the raise of soccer automatically means a decline in Aussie Rules. But in the next couple of years, Canberra will have a men’s team to complement the women’s team at soccer’s Aleague and will have at least one local team in soccer’s new second division.

Project Coordination steps up to sponsor local junior football | Region Canberra

Newly minted Capital Football CEO Ivan Slavich has hit the ground running in his quest to lift the professionalism of…

the-riotact.com

 

[TheEscapeClub]

I recently read a convo on Twitter I thought would be relevant here.

Two Super Rugby fans (one Canberran) were debating why the Brumbies struggle with crowds.

Ironically, in the pursuit of an AFL team, Canberra has been unable to shake the perception that it's a "rugby town". But in this convo, the Canberran said the Brumbies were partially struggling because Canberra was an "AFL town".

"Local AFL comp is huge. I think one needs to live here to see/judge."

And I think that's just it. Living in Canberra, it's obvious how big footy is and how big a team would be, but to outsiders, it's default a "rugby town". We need something to shake this to get into the conversation.

I lived in Canberra for 5 years but left in 2002.

The Brumbies were the hottest ticket in town and the Raiders were somewhat waning. I went to a couple of Brumbies games and was pretty non-plussed, I used to go to Manuka and watch whatever game was on between 2 teams I had no emotional connection to. The crowds were generally ok, particularly in comparison to the Raiders but there was a decided lack of atmosphere due to what I have already mentioned. I went to a couple of NSW/ACT Rams games because a Navy mate had a son playing with the Dandenong Stingrays. I remember when Cowboy Neale was coaching Ainslie and winning plenty of flags that there would quite often be reports on ACTFL games in the Victorian media.

My second last posting was out in Tuggeranong with a lot of civilians and a smattering of us service personnel. On Mondays there was never any discussion about the games from the weekend just finished and never any discussion in the lead up to the coming weekends games of any code. The only thing they'd say was that because Canberra was the capital of Australia, as a default they should have a local team in every national competition.

Unless things have changed drastically in the past 20 years, I certainly think there's room for an AFL team there but I don't think there's room for all three (3) of the major winter football codes.

 

[Coolangatta]

I lived in Canberra for 5 years but left in 2002.

The Brumbies were the hottest ticket in town and the Raiders were somewhat waning. I went to a couple of Brumbies games and was pretty non-plussed, I used to go to Manuka and watch whatever game was on between 2 teams I had no emotional connection to. The crowds were generally ok, particularly in comparison to the Raiders but there was a decided lack of atmosphere due to what I have already mentioned. I went to a couple of NSW/ACT Rams games because a Navy mate had a son playing with the Dandenong Stingrays. I remember when Cowboy Neale was coaching Ainslie and winning plenty of flags that there would quite often be reports on ACTFL games in the Victorian media.

My second last posting was out in Tuggeranong with a lot of civilians and a smattering of us service personnel. On Mondays there was never any discussion about the games from the weekend just finished and never any discussion in the lead up to the coming weekends games of any code. The only thing they'd say was that because Canberra was the capital of Australia, as a default they should have a local team in every national competition.

Unless things have changed drastically in the past 20 years, I certainly think there's room for an AFL team there but I don't think there's room for all three (3) of the major winter football codes.

There’s two better reasons than “the cap needs a team in the comp.”

1. 20th team gets rid of the bye and adds an extra game to the media rights deal. Yes, I know that the bye doesn’t bother everyone and the 10th game won’t be as valuable as the 9th but it’s still more games per season which will create more $$$ for the game.

2. New markets add new fans, members, supporters, TV viewers, and talent to the game. There are only three new markets that don’t have teams: Canberra, NT, NZ. Canberra is clearly the most viable of those three.

NQ could perhaps be considered as a new market but they aren’t as viable as Canberra and QLD will not get a third team unless the Suns and Lions become financially strong clubs.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

There’s two better reasons than “the cap needs a team in the comp.”

1. 20th team gets rid of the bye and adds an extra game to the media rights deal. Yes, I know that the bye doesn’t bother everyone and the 10th game won’t be as valuable as the 9th but it’s still more games per season which will create more $$$ for the game.

2. New markets add new fans, members, supporters, TV viewers, and talent to the game. There are only three new markets that don’t have teams: Canberra, NT, NZ. Canberra is clearly the most viable of those three.

NQ could perhaps be considered as a new market but they aren’t as viable as Canberra and QLD will not get a third team unless the Suns and Lions become financially strong clubs.

I lived up in Cairns for a couple of years too, they are pretty strong with Aussie rules, Townsville more league, particularly with the Cowboys there.

 

[Coolangatta]

I lived up in Cairns for a couple of years too, they are pretty strong with Aussie rules, Townsville more league, particularly with the Cowboys there.

Yeah and footy in Mackay is growing. I’d love to see an NT and NQ team after Canberra.