Capitalist Corruption

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The Coup

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We have a thread for union corruption (ongoing, still no arrests made) so I thought it would be nice to get a thread going where we document all the "brilliant" and "succesful" capitalists who are either int he process of losing everything due to incompetence, or gained what they have by deception, or are just generally a massive drain on society due to the way they leverage politicians to assist them in gaining more wealth.

Fresh off the press for today:

http://www.salon.com/2014/11/11/i_c...tleblower_and_matt_taibbi_sound_off_on_msnbc/

Could have avoided GFC but... you know, money.
 

illavitar

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One of the most corrupt ideologies I've seen in Australia would be the baby boomer "my tax" concept. Tax is deducted from your income, it is not a boomer bonus nor are you entitled to cheating society out of it's fair share... that most normal people have absolutely no problem with. Or would they rather revert back to the paleolithic period of daily fight or flight? One car and one ipad per household will have to do I'm afraid. Every blue collar alcoholic these days has his own investment property it's getting beyond ridiculous. Most these people can barely speak let alone expect healthy young people to rent off them.

What makes my blood boil in particular is most this mob are in the private sector and already rort the dollar by only paying 30c opposed to 47c like everyone else who learns less than them.

Lets raise the taxrate from 30c to 47c on small business over the equivalent threshold as is in PAYG. The flat rate was set up by pigs at the top and for pigs in the middle upwards, starting businesses struggle and the high earners pay less of their share earning millions than PAYG earners do under 80k.

They're f’ed honestly it's these miserable greedy people having to throw a spanner in front of our race, a small percentage destroying it for everyone, most people are happy to pay more tax than them, let alone ever meet that threshold themselves.

The world is full of self entitled pigs that we could do better without. They see us as workers we see them as misanthropic losers sending every value we hold dear back to the stoneage.
 
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Taylor

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One of the most corrupt ideologies I've seen in Australia would be the baby boomer "my tax" concept. Tax is deducted from your income, it is not a boomer bonus nor are you entitled to cheating society out of it's fair share... that most normal people have absolutely no problem with.

What makes my blood boil in particular is most this mob are in the private sector and already rort the dollar by only paying 30c opposed to 47c like everyone else who learns less than them.

Lets raise the taxrate from 30c to 47c on small business over the equivalent threshold as is in PAYG. The flat rate was set up by pigs at the top and for pigs in the middle upwards, starting businesses struggle and the high earners pay less of their share earning millions than PAYG earners do under 80k.

They're ****** honestly it's these miserable greedy people having to throw a spanner in front of our race, a small percentage destroying it for everyone, most people are happy to pay more tax than them, let alone ever meet that threshold themselves.

The world is full of self entitled pigs that we could do better without. They see us as workers we see them as misanthropic losers sending every value we hold dear back to the stoneage.

I don't mean to shoot you down in your blaze of glory but small businesses are set up owned by a trust with the entire family nominated as beneficiaries and distributed to those beneficiaries in the most tax effective manner. For example, if dad owned a business selling footballs and made $400,000 in the year but mum, brother and myself were unemployed, the trust would be used to turn that single person earning $400,000 (~$160,000 tax) a year to four people earning $100,000 (~$26,500 tax) = $54,000 tax saved right there.

Moving profits around the world before they are plonked on the spreadsheet for tax purposes costs this country far more than any small business, or even scores of small businesses.

There is not the motivation to fix that while those who stand to lose out, the corporations, are the same funding the election campaigns for, or in case of the mining tax - against.
 

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illavitar

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I think the solution to capitalism is to get rid of all the agents and "helpers". Sort the useless from the useful and destroy the concept of privaledge.

If all these low class hating higher ups didn't have agents, managers, lawyers, chefs, maids, spokespeople, publicists and accountants essentially making them who they are... then all the useless ones will die out and be aware of how useless they really are.

Imagine what would happen to trust fund babies such as Rinehart, James Packer and Murdoch jnr if they tried to pull as much weight as everyone else (no pun intended for the fat campaigner). They at least need a cleaner or cook, that's how useless these people are in comparison to you and me.
 

Taylor

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I think the solution to capitalism is to get rid of all the agents and "helpers". Sort the useless from the useful and destroy the concept of privaledge.

If all these low class hating higher ups didn't have agents, managers, lawyers, chefs, maids, spokespeople, publicists and accountants essentially making them who they are... then all the useless ones will die out and be aware of how useless they really are.

Imagine what would happen to trust fund babies such as Rinehart, James Packer and Murdoch jnr if they tried to pull as much weight as everyone else (no pun intended for the fat campaigner). They at least need a cleaner or cook, that's how useless these people are in comparison to you and me.

You're getting very close to breaking the first two rules of...

I've said too much!
 

illavitar

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I don't mean to shoot you down in your blaze of glory but small businesses are set up owned by a trust with the entire family nominated as beneficiaries and distributed to those beneficiaries in the most tax effective manner. For example, if dad owned a business selling footballs and made $400,000 in the year but mum, brother and myself were unemployed, the trust would be used to turn that single person earning $400,000 (~$160,000 tax) a year to four people earning $100,000 (~$26,500 tax) = $54,000 tax saved right there.

Moving profits around the world before they are plonked on the spreadsheet for tax purposes costs this country far more than any small business, or even scores of small businesses.

There is not the motivation to fix that while those who stand to lose out, the corporations, are the same funding the election campaigns for, or in case of the mining tax - against.

Except only one person is working therefore it's tax fraud? How can you split an income amongst 3 people who don't work in the mere name of stealing 54k from society?

I don't understand this concept, why isn't it one income of 400k seeing as your dad is the only one employed? 320k at 30% instead of 47% like most other people is good enough! Probably the most immoral thing you could do imo provided what you've told me is true (lie to the ato that your dad employs you to cheat tax).
 
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Taylor

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Except only one person is working therefore it's tax fraud? How can you split an income amongst 3 people who don't work in the mere name of stealing 54k from society?

I don't understand this concept, why isn't it one income of 400k seeing as your dad is the only one employed? 320k at 30% instead of 47% like most other people is good enough!

It's just a hypothetical.

It's not tax fraud, the trusts are a tool of our tax system that are available to anyone with an investment income (not PAYG) for about $900.
 

The Coup

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Its like you can't criticise anything remotely close to the right wing without getting a steady stream of people with bad opinions playing the victim card.

You guys on the right need to earn some kind of collective self esteem. Go do some charity work as a group or something and stop derailing every thread into how life is so unfair for white sexless men. It is tiring and lame.
 

illavitar

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It's just a hypothetical.

It's not tax fraud, the trusts are a tool of our tax system that are available to anyone with an investment income (not PAYG) for about $900.

Ah I see, it's definitely tax fraud though you cannot employ your family to steal tax unless they actually worked that financial year and were logged/payed/employed accordingly.

Some of these blue collar folk may get away with arguing they've never heard of keeping books before or even know what a book is, but even they're liable as far as the ato is concerned the moment they registered, no matter what clever loophole they want to try and exploit!!

It's like a game not to pay tax with these people, they boast about it like a bunch of insecure losers trying to redo their failed high school years all over again but with some form of rebellion this time.I literally see them brag in public it's disgusting. It's like in a progressing world of now 7 billion, we are literally throttled by these back-peddlers wanting to screw up everything. There's a time and place for that behavior and it was childhood, 40-70 is not the age and stealing from society is not the way :)
 

Taylor

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Ah I see, it's definitely tax fraud though you cannot employ your family to steal tax unless they actually worked that financial year and were logged/payed/employed accordingly.

The trust owns the shares of the business, the business pays a dividend to the share at the value of the profit.

The trust then splits the money it received to it's beneficiaries.

It's really quite simple. It's not fraudulent at all.
 

illavitar

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The trust owns the shares of the business, the business pays a dividend to the share at the value of the profit.

The trust then splits the money it received to it's beneficiaries.

It's really quite simple. It's not fraudulent at all.

But the only comparable trust I can get on PAYG salary is a 15c tax rate I can't access until I'm 58+ and with no tax savings unless the government one day accepts my daily commute vehicle as a work expense as it already should be (as it is for the private sector). I think it's illegal to sub-let my job as well (and in relation to employing my kids half the time just to save tax ;)).

Particularly annoyed how I cannot claim a daily mode of transport as a work expense (which it is) while matey get's the whole thing for free if he puts a ladder on the back and drives a mere 2km to his local job! Outrageous, he's already paying far far less tax :S
 

Taylor

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But the only comparable trust I can get on PAYG salary is a 15c tax rate I can't access until I'm 58+ and with no tax savings unless the government one day accepts my daily commute vehicle as a work expense as it already should be (as it is for the private sector). I think it's illegal to sub-let my job as well (in relation to employing my kids half the time just to save tax ;)).

Particularly annoyed how I cannot claim a daily mode of transport as a work expense (which it is) while matey get's the whole thing for free if he puts a ladder on the back and drives a mere 2km to his local job! Outrageous, he's already paying far far less tax :S

The situation I gave you actually has the dad working for free.

You can buy all your investments through your trust, like the shares in the business you run and get the same benefit.
 

illavitar

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The situation I gave you actually has the dad working for free.

You can buy all your investments through your trust, like the shares in the business you run and get the same benefit.

That's why it's so ilmoral in my view, it's not as it is. It's whatever off the record scumbag society sucking lie will save him the most tax :mad:

So many people out there doing that stuff, but everyone knows the dad isn't giving his family each 100k p.a. and living of $0 for 12 months. Which is why it's so crooked :D

Basically I get it, these people have no conscience! Who would work for free? Who would transfer their kids their entire wage? Only tax cheats! It's not really their kids wage and they're not really working for free! The jig is up for these cheats now if only they could deduct themselves completely from our society that would be just terrific :D
 
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The Coup

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The situation I gave you actually has the dad working for free.

You can buy all your investments through your trust, like the shares in the business you run and get the same benefit.

This is why non human ownership of assets needs to go.
 

The Coup

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Can we get a definition of capitalist corruption as distinct from regular corruption?

Good question, happy to clarify for the purposes of the thread:

Corruption as a result of the capitalist economic system and modern capitalist culture.

i.e. corruption that results from the profit motive, private property and exploitation are all fundamentally a part of the system. But there are additional types of corruption exacerbated by the modern mythologizing of the "free market" principle and individualist culture as opposed to a collectivist culture.
 

Taylor

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Good question, happy to clarify for the purposes of the thread:

Corruption as a result of the capitalist economic system and modern capitalist culture.

i.e. corruption that results from the profit motive, private property and exploitation are all fundamentally a part of the system. But there are additional types of corruption exacerbated by the modern mythologizing of the "free market" principle and individualist culture as opposed to a collectivist culture.
I'm not trying to out maneuver you here but I have to ask.

Is that corruption seeking to make a free market no longer free for all and favor the corrupter?
 

The Coup

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I'm not trying to out maneuver you here but I have to ask.

Is that corruption seeking to make a free market no longer free for all and favor the corrupter?

Free markets have never really been a major component in Australia for trade. It isn't part of our history. Our history and wealth was tied more to monopoly of hugely profitable industries and revolutionary (followed by monolithic and prone to all the inefficiency that goes along with that) trade unionism - there was an equilibrium though - but economic liberalism has flipped the script on that.

But sure, if you have examples and it relates to people trying to subvert the market dishonestly or get around regulatory controls (or even merely where there are no regulatory control and should be, or the regulations are easily exploited or whatever) go right ahead. I do understand you're just clarifiying because these threads often end up being tit for tat etc.

I respect you as a poster, I'm definitely not trying to frame the conversation to suit any particular example and understand you're doing the same.
 

Lebbo73

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Except only one person is working therefore it's tax fraud? How can you split an income amongst 3 people who don't work in the mere name of stealing 54k from society?

I don't understand this concept, why isn't it one income of 400k seeing as your dad is the only one employed? 320k at 30% instead of 47% like most other people is good enough! Probably the most immoral thing you could do imo provided what you've told me is true (lie to the ato that your dad employs you to cheat tax).
Why do you want their money for? It isn't yours to take. Stop being greedy and expecting the govt to steal off honest working small business owners.
 

The Coup

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Do negative gearing and transfer pricing fit the bill?

That's an interesting question, if something is legalised is it still corrupt?

I'd say the legal status of any behaviour is irrelevant when discussing if its actually corrupt or not, but that's me. what do you think?
 

Taylor

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That's an interesting question, if something is legalised is it still corrupt?

I'd say the legal status of any behaviour is irrelevant when discussing if its actually corrupt or not, but that's me. what do you think?
If the premise is that through unfair means, such as targeting lobbying and political donations etc, the laws has been created to benefit a select group then I do agree.
 

Scotland

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I'm still trying to get my head around the basis of the thread.

Corruption as a result of the capitalist economic system and modern capitalist culture.

i.e. corruption that results from the profit motive, private property and exploitation are all fundamentally a part of the system.

This seems a bit vague to me. What is the difference between corruption by say BHP or corruption by say the CFMEU whose members work for BHP? The driving force behind corruption is always self interest, isn't it?
 

mottrain

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I'm still trying to get my head around the basis of the thread.



This seems a bit vague to me. What is the difference between corruption by say BHP or corruption by say the CFMEU whose members work for BHP? The driving force behind corruption is always self interest, isn't it?
Correct. Can say though the Coup's complained already about people bringing unions into this thread as they are not relevant apparently :drunk:. Good to see someone else sees it the same way I do. I wonder whether you'll get reported for off topic posting :oops:.
 

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