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Captain VB

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Vader said:
People love to see flashy play. Players who aren't flashy, who just do their jobs week in week out, quickly become whipping boys - whether they deserve it or not. Doughty was one of this board's favourite whipping boys for the last few years of his career, once the "young Mick Doughty" jokes finally wore thin. He did absolutely nothing to deserve it, being one of the club's most consistent and reliable defenders in our entire history - but that didn't stop the BF lunatic society from bagging him mercilessly.

Performance and whipping boy status have nothing to do with each other. Do not confuse them.
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Doughty deserved some whipping through the middle part of his career, his last few years were very good though.. I couldn't believe I was thinking so, but I didn't want him to retire when he did..

I don't have "whipping boys" myself, I go by my eyes at a point in time.. Vince for example was woeful early this year, his last month or so has been a big turnaround.. VB just gives us nothing of great note as a player, poor decisions, putting team mates under pressure, poor disposal, can't properly lock down on a player..
 
Vader said:
In which case there is no reason to demote VB. He's got 3 years left to run on his contract and I expect him to play 60+ games in that period.
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Oh ok then my lord.

In reality meanwhile, he would want to pull his finger out in a huge way just to play 20 games next year. Crouch, Lyons, Kedge and Grigg will be demanding more permanent selection. Potentially Cooney coming in. Wright has already been squeezed out of the midfield. McKay's outside role may well give way to Smith or Polec. Danger, Sloane and Dougie aren't going anywhere. Vince? Thommo?? Its getting tight in the midfield. And that's to say nothing of development/FA/trades in 2014, 2015 and 2016. But if you say so, sure vB is a lock to play 60 games...
 
mattymac said:
Oh ok then my lord.

In reality meanwhile, he would want to pull his finger out in a huge way just to play 20 games next year. Crouch, Lyons, Kedge and Grigg will be demanding more permanent selection. Potentially Cooney coming in. Wright has already been squeezed out of the midfield. McKay's outside role may well give way to Smith or Polec. Danger, Sloane and Dougie aren't going anywhere. Vince? Thommo?? Its getting tight in the midfield. And that's to say nothing of development/FA/trades in 2014, 2015 and 2016. But if you say so, sure vB is a lock to play 60 games...
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Wright & Porps would be the first ones to the wall, followed by Mackay. Thompson probably only has 1-2 years left in him at most. I know it's not going to be popular, but my money would be on Brown & Lyons getting the chop before VB as well.

I'm far from convinced that we'll land Polec and even less convinced that he'll be forcing anyone out of our best 22. Right now he's very much an unproven commodity who showed talent in his U18 year, but who has failed to develop since then (admittedly due to injury).
 
Vader said:
Wright & Porps would be the first ones to the wall, followed by Mackay. Thompson probably only has 1-2 years left in him at most. I know it's not going to be popular, but my money would be on Brown & Lyons getting the chop before VB as well.

I'm far from convinced that we'll land Polec and even less convinced that he'll be forcing anyone out of our best 22. Right now he's very much an unproven commodity who showed talent in his U18 year, but who has failed to develop since then (admittedly due to injury).
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Agree that Polec shouldn't be walk up start in 2014 (if we signed him), but you would hope he'd be in the mix late, and into 2015.
 

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Vader said:
Wrong again.. His last month has actually been pretty good and his position in the team has never been in any doubt, Captain or not. 100% wrong on all accusations. Congratulations - it takes talent to be as wrong as this post.
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June 1 after the dockers home loss regarding Reilly in the kudos thread - vader "No, there's virtually no chance of him being dropped this week, or any time soon. There's nobody to replace him and he's not going to be dropped after 1 bad game."

Played next round v sydney and guess what. I guess 'anytime soon' means 1 week to vader. Not a triggy alias are you vader. As far as the eye can see, I suppose.

it's hard using only iPhone so apologies for errors.

I do agree his last couple of games have been improved.
 
Freomaniac said:
Shaun McManus wasn't the greatest player at our Club but he was a Freo boy. He was co-captain with Adrian Fletcher in 2000 and 2001. Also McManus retired in his own terms in 2008.
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Thanks... I actually was aware who McManus was.

My point was that this 200 gamer was ridiculed and rubbished incessantly by Freo fans after his two knee recos. So lets ease off on the moral high ground stuff.

You're currently winning, so everybody's happy and behaving like lovely supporters.

We're losing, so we're behaving like angry supporters.

And when the club fortunes were reversed, the fan behaviours were exactly the same.
 
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
Thanks... I actually was aware who McManus was.

My point was that this 200 gamer was ridiculed and rubbished incessantly by Freo fans after his two knee recos. So lets ease off on the moral high ground stuff.

You're currently winning, so everybody's happy and behaving like lovely supporters.

We're losing, so we're behaving like angry supporters.

And when the club fortunes were reversed, the fan behaviours were exactly the same.
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Your probably right... But I will tell you one thing... My club has been through darker moments that your club, for your sake, hopefully will never go through. My team has been through a period of 8 seasons (1995-2001) with out a final and 3 years (2007-2009) with out a final. That dark day was Saturday, 11th of July. Yep I am referring to Round 15 2009 at aami stadium. That infamous game where Freo scored only 1.7.13 for the whole game. I went to that game and I sat through it. All 4 quarters of it.

Only scored 0.1 at half time. I sat there mentally Paralysed and thought to myself "I know we were bad, but are this horrible." After the game, as I said freo only scored 1.7. That was the only time I actually questioned my loyalty to the club... That was a defining moment for me that night.
 

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Sanders said:
Who are the bottom 3 would you say? In your opinion?
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Taking our team from last week?

Tambling has already been dropped. Porps was next to useless, with Mckernan completely useless. JJ barely kicked a goal in the whole month of July - critical to our structure, but not performing terribly well. Wright, Otten, Brown & Hartigan would make up the rest of the lower third of the class, though that's being incredibly harsh on a first game player.

Ergo.. VB is not in the bottom 1/3 of our team's performers from last week - thus his position is in no danger at all (nor has it been at any stage this season).
 
Vader said:
Taking our team from last week?

Tambling has already been dropped. Porps was next to useless, with Mckernan completely useless. JJ barely kicked a goal in the whole month of July - critical to our structure, but not performing terribly well. Wright, Otten, Brown & Hartigan would make up the rest of the lower third of the class, though that's being incredibly harsh on a first game player.

Ergo.. VB is not in the bottom 1/3 of our team's performers from last week - thus his position is in no danger at all (nor has it been at any stage this season).
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Sorry, appreciate its easy to cross wires

You were talking about how VP was nowhere near the worst tagger in the league

Was wondering who you thought were the bottom 3, the worst taggers?
 

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Sanders said:
Sorry, appreciate its easy to cross wires

You were talking about how VP was nowhere near the worst tagger in the league

Was wondering who you thought were the bottom 3, the worst taggers?
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Sorry about the mixed wires.. couldn't be bothered going back to see what the context of the quote was from.

The reality is that there are a handful of really good taggers - Crowley is one of them. VB is in the next group - those who do their job most weeks, pretty well, but aren't elite. Then there's the rest..
 
I think there's very few full time taggers these days, and usually if not always, its players of lower ability using it as a chance to secure a spot in the team

What makes crowley so good is that he's got no ego, he knows what he is, and what he needs to do for the team.

I reckon a lot of people confuse matching up on an opponent with tagging.

I think VP does have a bit too much ego, he's one of a handful of pure taggers, but likes to think he can also his man going the other way.

Which makes him not that effective on the real class players
 
Freomaniac said:
Your probably right... But I will tell you one thing... My club has been through darker moments that your club, for your sake, hopefully will never go through. My team has been through a period of 8 seasons (1995-2001) with out a final and 3 years (2007-2009) with out a final. That dark day was Saturday, 11th of July. Yep I am referring to Round 15 2009 at aami stadium. That infamous game where Freo scored only 1.7.13 for the whole game. I went to that game and I sat through it. All 4 quarters of it.

Only scored 0.1 at half time. I sat there mentally Paralysed and thought to myself "I know we were bad, but are this horrible." After the game, as I said freo only scored 1.7. That was the only time I actually questioned my loyalty to the club... That was a defining moment for me that night.
Click to expand...

What's changed?:D

seem to still kick those scores

only difference is the other team kicks 1.2
 
cmndstab said:
You had a pretty good rookie draft then from memory, as well.
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Yeah in 2008 rookie draft we got Matt Deboer, Greg Broughton, Clancee Pearce and to top this classic draft off, Jay Van berlo!

2009 we got Barlow and Silvagni.

Vader said:
Taking our team from last week?

Tambling has already been dropped. Porps was next to useless, with Mckernan completely useless. JJ barely kicked a goal in the whole month of July - critical to our structure, but not performing terribly well. Wright, Otten, Brown & Hartigan would make up the rest of the lower third of the class, though that's being incredibly harsh on a first game player.

Ergo.. VB is not in the bottom 1/3 of our team's performers from last week - thus his position is in no danger at all (nor has it been at any stage this season).
Click to expand...


I agree with your view that NVB is not in the Bottom 1/3 of the crows performers last week. Overall he averages 17 disposals a game. Every 2nd game he has a 20 disposal game.


jangofett said:
What's changed?:D

seem to still kick those scores

only difference is the other team kicks 1.2
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Nope Freo kicks 12-14 goals a game while Freo try to restrict them to 10 goals or less.:thumbsu:

Similar to the crows of 2005.
 

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