Captain wanted

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Imet Hassa said:
All participating players on the day to be named as co-captains. This will greatly enhance pointless gesturing, arm waving and finger pointing. It also means anyone who happens to play well on any given day can be "leading from the front" and playing a "captains game"
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Every goal a captain's goal.
 
Salem. He’s tough, classy and is well liked and respected by the playing group. Nev has been grooming him beautifully.
Jones has been a ******* disaster as captain and is hopefully playing his last season, Viney appears to have been permanently maimed, and TMAC is a little too intense I think.
Gawn would also be an excellent option. Maybe Gawn captain and Salem vice. My only concern with Salem is the repeated concussions over the last three years.
 
Tempy Tiger said:
Salem. He’s tough, classy and is well liked and respected by the playing group. Nev has been grooming him beautifully.
Jones has been a ******* disaster as captain and is hopefully playing his last season, Viney appears to have been permanently maimed, and TMAC is a little too intense I think.
Gawn would also be an excellent option. Maybe Gawn captain and Salem vice. My only concern with Salem is the repeated concussions over the last three years.
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I like Salem. I think he’s pretty shy in front of camera though, so it might be a burden he doesn’t want or need
 

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Tempy Tiger said:
Salem. He’s tough, classy and is well liked and respected by the playing group. Nev has been grooming him beautifully.
Jones has been a ******* disaster as captain and is hopefully playing his last season, Viney appears to have been permanently maimed, and TMAC is a little too intense I think.
Gawn would also be an excellent option. Maybe Gawn captain and Salem vice. My only concern with Salem is the repeated concussions over the last three years.
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Please explain why Jones has been a disaster of a captain.

Its very subjective for us to be stating who is or would be a good/bad captain. We literally see their input for 2 hours on a saturday and 3 minute presser during the week. That would make up 10% of their input to the club, the rest of which we don't see at all.
 
saj_21 said:
Please explain why Jones has been a disaster of a captain.

Its very subjective for us to be stating who is or would be a good/bad captain. We literally see their input for 2 hours on a saturday and 3 minute presser during the week. That would make up 10% of their input to the club, the rest of which we don't see at all.
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It is subjective that's for sure, so hard to justify. Nevertheless, I personally subscribe to Tempy's view here. great bloke, great player, not great leader.

As you say, it's only from what one observes in 2-3 hours a week, but the thesis is something like
  • Doesn't seem to be able to play the "General" organization marshaling role. Especially when other teams get a run on he doesn't "seem" to be helping organize to stem the flow, make changes on the fly etc
  • Often goes missing himself in bad quarters. I think he usually responds, but often after half time
  • We as a team, so this is not on him himself, have shown some monumental * ups from positions of strenght (eg Geelong last year, Adelaide this year) as a supporter you just know it's going to happen, but nobody on our team seems to do anything
  • Has a strange voice
 
HANDSOLO said:
It is subjective that's for sure, so hard to justify. Nevertheless, I personally subscribe to Tempy's view here. great bloke, great player, not great leader.

As you say, it's only from what one observes in 2-3 hours a week, but the thesis is something like
  • Doesn't seem to be able to play the "General" organization marshaling role. Especially when other teams get a run on he doesn't "seem" to be helping organize to stem the flow, make changes on the fly etc
  • Often goes missing himself in bad quarters. I think he usually responds, but often after half time
  • We as a team, so this is not on him himself, have shown some monumental **** ups from positions of strenght (eg Geelong last year, Adelaide this year) as a supporter you just know it's going to happen, but nobody on our team seems to do anything
  • Has a strange voice
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He's 31. He's going missing because he's an old inside mid who's put his body on the line for over a decade not because he isn't a leader.
 
Topkent said:
He's 31. He's going missing because he's an old inside mid who's put his body on the line for over a decade not because he isn't a leader.
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Truf for this year.

But I felt he has been doing it for at least 3-4 years, when he was 28,29,30,31, often when we need it most. It's subjective, I cannot back this up. He has also had moment where he has stood up, including last year don't get me wrong. But I think more often than not, it's the other way around.

We have had this bad quarter/half problem for at least 3 years, and I think it is at least in a significant part down to leadership, and he is our captain.

Anyway, I think we cannot resolve this, there are two camps, both have decent rationale. Maybe he is s**t hot behind the scenes, setting standards and so on.
 

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HANDSOLO said:
It is subjective that's for sure, so hard to justify. Nevertheless, I personally subscribe to Tempy's view here. great bloke, great player, not great leader.

As you say, it's only from what one observes in 2-3 hours a week, but the thesis is something like
  • Doesn't seem to be able to play the "General" organization marshaling role. Especially when other teams get a run on he doesn't "seem" to be helping organize to stem the flow, make changes on the fly etc
  • Often goes missing himself in bad quarters. I think he usually responds, but often after half time
  • We as a team, so this is not on him himself, have shown some monumental **** ups from positions of strenght (eg Geelong last year, Adelaide this year) as a supporter you just know it's going to happen, but nobody on our team seems to do anything
  • Has a strange voice
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I like the fact you put some context around your opinion, rather than just a blanket statement. Although we may disagree on his actual output as leader he has been far from a disaster.
 
saj_21 said:
Please explain why Jones has been a disaster of a captain.

Its very subjective for us to be stating who is or would be a good/bad captain. We literally see their input for 2 hours on a saturday and 3 minute presser during the week. That would make up 10% of their input to the club, the rest of which we don't see at all.
Click to expand...
1. Our biggest deficiency as a team is our kicking into the forward line. Jones has some hot competition but is one of the very worst exponents in our team of kicking the ball to opposition defenders;
2. Another huge issue is our midfields lack of accountability. Again, he leads the pack. This has been a big flaw his whole career. When Roos came to the club it was reported on numerous times how he had a much different view than Jones as to what a good game from him looked like. The only time he was a halfway decent leader was when he led the way with aggression. Unfortunately this lasted all of half a season.
3. A genuine leader stands up when things get tough, and in big games and in big moments. Jones generally puts on a magical invisibility cloak when the team most needs him.
He is a B grade footballer who has managed to play a lot of games due to us being a rabble throughout his career. He now finds himself skipper through seniority but is awkwardly no longer best 22.
I respect the fact he stayed when he could have left but I think his leadership has been poor for the club. We need a winner with a bit of mojo, not an introvert who is gun shy after playing in nearly 200 losses.
 
Tempy Tiger said:
1. Our biggest deficiency as a team is our kicking into the forward line. Jones has some hot competition but is one of the very worst exponents in our team of kicking the ball to opposition defenders;
2. Another huge issue is our midfields lack of accountability. Again, he leads the pack. This has been a big flaw his whole career. When Roos came to the club it was reported on numerous times how he had a much different view than Jones as to what a good game from him looked like. The only time he was a halfway decent leader was when he led the way with aggression. Unfortunately this lasted all of half a season.
3. A genuine leader stands up when things get tough, and in big games and in big moments. Jones generally puts on a magical invisibility cloak when the team most needs him.
He is a B grade footballer who has managed to play a lot of games due to us being a rabble throughout his career. He now finds himself skipper through seniority but is awkwardly no longer best 22.
I respect the fact he stayed when he could have left but I think his leadership has been poor for the club. We need a winner with a bit of mojo, not an introvert who is gun shy after playing in nearly 200 losses.
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Everything you’ve written is more applicable to Viney than it is to Jones.
1 - Viney averages more clangers and turnovers despite averaging less touches. Viney also can’t kick more than 40m.
2 - Jones barely plays midfield anymore, he has spent most of the season on a hbf/ wing.
3 - honestly can not remember a time where Viney has stood up in the big moments. Happy to be proven wrong, but at least Jones kicks the odd captains goal.
4 - Viney is behind Oliver, Brayshaw and Harmes in our midfield rotations and due to his disposal can’t play anywhere else on the ground. If he’s having a stinker in the middle there’s nowhere else on the ground you can hide him. Hard to describe Viney as a winner with mojo as well.

Making Viney co-captain at 22 has a lot of shades of making Trengove captain, right down to the foot injuries. Hoping his career doesn’t end the same way.
 
Beats said:
Everything you’ve written is more applicable to Viney than it is to Jones.
1 - Viney averages more clangers and turnovers despite averaging less touches. Viney also can’t kick more than 40m.
2 - Jones barely plays midfield anymore, he has spent most of the season on a hbf/ wing.
3 - honestly can not remember a time where Viney has stood up in the big moments. Happy to be proven wrong, but at least Jones kicks the odd captains goal.
4 - Viney is behind Oliver, Brayshaw and Harmes in our midfield rotations and due to his disposal can’t play anywhere else on the ground. If he’s having a stinker in the middle there’s nowhere else on the ground you can hide him. Hard to describe Viney as a winner with mojo as well.

Making Viney co-captain at 22 has a lot of shades of making Trengove captain, right down to the foot injuries. Hoping his career doesn’t end the same way.
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‘Viney hasn’t stood up in a big game’

What? Won us a game in Perth by himself two years ago and was excellent in the finals last year.
 
Salem doesn't strike me as somebody who would want to be captain. Viney in so many ways should be a great captain.
 
It’s hard to tell but in my opinion Jones has been a good captain. He steadily improved his own game when the club was virtually falling apart around him. In plenty of awful losses, he never turns up his toes and still cracks in when the game is gone. It’s been simply awful following this club since the end of 06 and he would have felt that hurt as much as any of us. If better days come to pass, I will reflect on the dark times and how the tough nut wearing number 2 continued to put his body on the line. He has taken players such as Brayshaw under his wing and always sought to improve individual and team standards. He has been a source of inspiration for the likes of Brayshaw, Gawn and Hogan through his play and leadership. Time and time again he has been asked to improve his game or change his role because it’s what the team needed or because there was no one else who could do it, he has also had to deal with a pretty debilitating neck injury the past few years. He’s banged up now and pretty close to the end but I won’t forget what he has done for this club.

I never saw Robbie play, Neita and Stynes were warriors who played in up and down sides. Jones deserves the same respect as those three who fought tooth and nail for this club and deserved far more than they got with regard to team success. Time is running out but he deserves a flag as much as anyone on the list.
 
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