Cardinal Pell honorary role with Richmond - Is this the last straw?

[Ancient Tiger]

More to the point, why don't we have a vice-patron who is relevant to our club??
Someone who might turn up or show an interest every so often?

Good point

 

[pebblestone]

More to the point, why don't we have a vice-patron who is relevant to our club??
Someone who might turn up or show an interest every so often?

There are at least a few that do.
It seems that most people don't understand what the vice-patronage means.
There is no role. There is no remuneration. Nothing is asked of the patrons.
It is a symbol of recognition of major contribution to the club in some capacity. They're given 2 memberships each year and priority access to purchase up to 2 finals tickets in which RFC is involved.
This is the same as a life member of the club receives.
There is no special access to the club other than the contacts that they would inevitably have due to their involvement in the past.
They are not in constant dialog with the club.
They are fans like us.

 

[Oprah From Tigerland]

More to the point, why don't we have a vice-patron who is relevant to our club??
Someone who might turn up or show an interest every so often?

And NOT Mick Molloy!

 

[Bojangles17]

The 20th Century, with two world wars, was probably the most violent and destructive we have seen in human history.
I hope we do not see a repeat.
World War I was caused by German military and economic expansionism.
World War I led later to World War II encompassing Hitler's desire for revenge.
Again, economic strength was one of the reasons for Hitler's popularity throughout the 1930s.
Neither of those two conflicts were caused by religions.

listen to this man, he's an old kevinian , welcome brudda

 

[bananatigz]

I’m sure Gale and the rest of the club don’t want to touch him with a ten foot pole to be honest, but as has been stated their hands are tied to a certain extent.

Act now and Pell and his lawyers will be up in arms and we are suddenly drawn into all those court proceedings.

I’m sure the club is just trying to get on with things without drawing any attention to him as much as possible and will quickly and quietly sever any ties should he ever be found guilty.

Not sure what more the club can really do in these circumstances. Fwiw I think it will be an uphill battle to get a conviction now that most of the charges have been thrown out, fairly easy for his defence to play on that and create reasonable doubt. What happens then is an interesting question, I’m sure the club would still like to not be associated with him in way.

 

[Madison]

Have you read the Gospels?
In Christianity they are the most fundamental teachings you can get.
What is dangerous in them?

If you haven't read them, it is you that is poorly read.

If only you’d been around during the inquisition when priests were burning heretics at the stake to slip those Christian priests the real bible after someone must have swapped theirs for a different copy.

You said there is precious wrong with any religion, I would say you’ve not followed the history of what religion has actually been responsible for and what the texts contain.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

If only you’d been around during the inquisition when priests were burning heretics at the stake to slip those Christian priests the real bible after someone must have swapped theirs for a different copy.

You said there is precious wrong with any religion, I would say you’ve not followed the history of what religion has actually been responsible for and what the texts contain.

I've been around a lot longer than you. It's not the texts themselves but how power hungry individuals manipulate them to empower themselves over others that is the problem.

You still haven't quoted me a line from the Gospels that is evil too. I am waiting for your answer since you are claiming to be well read.

 

[Madison]

IMHO I've found that it's not religions that are fundamentally bad or good, it's the people that interpret them in light of their own agendas and cultures. Almost any religion grown to a significant size will have these extremist fringe elements. At the end of the day, religions are simply a reflection of our species.

Having said that, respectfully, perhaps we could take any further discussion to PM? It's not what this thread is for.

There’s not much to interpret when it’s written in text.

I would also say the Catholic Church’s resume speak for itself. The Church itself can’t hardly be considered a fringe.

We can chat about it over pm if you’d prefer. I’m not too fussed about it either way.

 

[Helen Wheels]

I doubt that anybody on this thread -- or the club itself -- would be sorry to see the club dissociate itself from Pell at the earliest available opportunity.
Whether he is found guilty or not, I would expect this to happen because he is the turd in the punchbowl.
The critical matter is the correct timing.
If we acted prematurely, it could be risky.
Don't forget, we're dealing with an immensely wealthy and powerful organisation in the catholic church, with access to the best legal brains money can buy.
Pell is the third-highest ranking executive in the organisation and they need to protect him for their own sake.
Imagine the dismay of everybody if something trivial done by RFC or another technicality caused a mistrial or delay.
The club will get its chance to act when the time is right.

 

[The Goon]

Not sure what else there is to discuss. Completely agree with Gale.

Pell isn't going to step down as he has other things on his mind and the club isn't going to get involved in the trial while it is ongoing as that makes people consider the link between the club and Pell, and also that the club doesn't have respect for due process. The same due process the club was asking for when people were trying to hang Dusty.

This has nothing to do with religion. Stop bring personal beliefs into something that is purely a criminal and subsequently administrative issue.

1. Dusty was never committed to stand trial. If he had been I wouldn't have been surprised if the club stood him down for the duration.
2. Where did I mention religion? If you read through my posts you should see my position has nothing to do with religion.

I do think you're right in that the club will do nothing, but simply because it's the path of least resistance. I disagree with this.

 

[Madison]

I've been around a lot longer than you. It's not the texts themselves but how power hungry individuals manipulate them to empower themselves over others that is the problem.

You still haven't quoted me a line from the Gospels that is evil too. I am waiting for your answer since you are claiming to be well read.

I stopped reading the bible once they stopped forcing me to at school.

I haven’t studied the bible and I’m not pretending I have. But I have read several books on religion as well as atheism and love watching debates between people much smarter than me, like Christopher Hitchens, Maajid Nawaz, Stephen Fry, Sam Harris when they debate representatives of said religions, whether they be Christian, Muslim etc.

I find it to be a fascinating topic and I think history shows that religion is not inherently peaceful and there is plenty wrong with every major religion. Christianity and Islam (the two biggest) have a rap sheet longer than Chopper Read.

 

[DrMike]

1. Dusty was never committed to stand trial. If he had been I wouldn't have been surprised if the club stood him down for the duration.
2. Where did I mention religion? If you read through my posts you should see my position has nothing to do with religion.

I do think you're right in that the club will do nothing, but simply because it's the path of least resistance. I disagree with this.

1. Irrelevant. Due process is due process. We'd be hypocritical if we now said we're above that.
2. Directed at everyone, if it doesn't apply to you then don't worry about it.

The club may still review it even if he's found innocent, but they'll wait until this process is resolved before they do it.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Pell is scum. We should send Balmey and Ricky McLean round to beat him to a pulp. Absolute piece of s**t human being.

The Catholic Church is a disgrace, and that's coming from someone raised Catholic. Tax the shizen out of the pedo-enablers.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I stopped reading the bible once they stopped forcing me to at school.

I haven’t studied the bible and I’m not pretending I have. But I have read several books on religion as well as atheism and love watching debates between people much smarter than me, like Christopher Hitchens, Maajid Nawaz, Stephen Fry, Sam Harris when they debate representatives of said religions, whether they be Christian, Muslim etc.

I find it to be a fascinating topic and I think history shows that religion is not inherently peaceful and there is plenty wrong with every major religion. Christianity and Islam (the two biggest) have a rap sheet longer than Chopper Read.

That does not make sense to me. You do realise that humans will always find a reason to invade, rape and pillage. If we had no religion, those who are power hungry would find something else to manipulate to get the upper hand over others. If you don't realise this you are very naive. So it is ridiculous to blame religion for the problems. If you had time to read the Gospels, you'd realise that those words are about living in total peace and harmony. Nothing comes closer to describing that in the Christian religion. If you read the Guru Granth Sahib you would find that it also continuously stresses a peaceful harmonious life. Almost all religions stress this. Read them before you criticise.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Pell is scum. We should send Balmey and Ricky McLean round to beat him to a pulp. Absolute piece of s**t human being.

The Catholic Church is a disgrace, and that's coming from someone raised Catholic. Tax the shizen out of the pedo-enablers.

Strange way of improving society. Sending others to bash the shizen out of people. I don't think that we are progressing if that is our solution for everything.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Strange way of improving society. Sending others to bash the shizen out of people. I don't think that we are progressing if that is our solution for everything.

I made no mention of improving society, I said bash the pedo scum who has destroyed lives while pretending to be a holy man.

 

[rowlingsdevsqd]

You're getting a bit desperate if you are going back that far to incriminate the Church as a whole......

Fair call, but my reference wasn’t solely about the Catholic Church but rather religion being at the center of the conflict which was the core of the post I was referring to (I didn’t reference any specific religion)

Maybe my reference would have been better reflected as the use of religion by some to gain wealth and power


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[Helen Wheels]

There's far more to be lost than gained by going off early.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

There's far more to be lost than gained by going off early.

I was always told not to go off half cocked.

 

[KiwiTiger]

More to the point, why don't we have a vice-patron who is relevant to our club??
Someone who might turn up or show an interest every so often?

Ken Grenda is a patron, and he's there every week with his son Scott and the whole tribe. Great man is Ken.

Haere Ra

 

[Madison]

That does not make sense to me. You do realise that humans will always find a reason to invade, rape and pillage. If we had no religion, those who are power hungry would find something else to manipulate to get the upper hand over others. If you don't realise this you are very naive. So it is ridiculous to blame religion for the problems. If you had time to read the Gospels, you'd realise that those words are about living in total peace and harmony. Nothing comes closer to describing that in the Christian religion. If you read the Guru Granth Sahib you would find that it also continuously stresses a peaceful harmonious life. Almost all religions stress this. Read them before you criticise.

“Good people do good things, evil people do evil things. But for good people to do evilthings, that takes religion” - Steven Weinberg

“I’ve never seen men take such delight in evil as when it was for religion” - I can’t remember where I read that

We’ll just have to agree to disagree cos I think it’s very naive, and frankly intellectually dishonest, to claim that almost all religions stress peace and harmony. There for sure are passages that do, but there are also many passages that don’t. Over time we have hand picked what we want based on what we consider to be moralistic in our time, but if we were living under theocratic rule (as some muslim majority countries are) then it would not be a peaceful place to live. There would be no free thought, very little freedom in general, there would be stoning, limbs being chopped off, absolutely no concept of equal rights. That’s the case for all abrahmic religions. Yes most of that nasty stuff is in the Old Testament but it is quite nasty and it still makes up the bible. Islam is just as bad if not worse. Even the Buddhist Japanese believed their faith would see them triumphant in WW2.

I know that a lot of the teachings of Jesus what actually make for quite a nice world to live in, the man was quite the hippy. But unfortunately there is a bit more to the bible and the Christian faith than just that.

We aren’t going to change each other’s minds but if you’ve got some spare time on YouTube there’s a great debate in there with Christopher Hitchens and Stephen Fry debating an Archbishop and a religious MP.

If you’re religious or spiritual then great, a lot of good can come from it on the individual level. But don’t try and pretend that the vast majority of religion is about peace. History has shown that it isn’t, time and time again.

 

[Goldust]

Ken Grenda is a patron, and he's there every week with his son Scott and the whole tribe. Great man is Ken.

Haere Ra

Don't know him, probably is a great bloke.
When was the last time the Pope, sorry cardinal Pell, show his dial??
Show him the door, regardless!

 

[I Rock]

That does not make sense to me. You do realise that humans will always find a reason to invade, rape and pillage. If we had no religion, those who are power hungry would find something else to manipulate to get the upper hand over others. If you don't realise this you are very naive. So it is ridiculous to blame religion for the problems. If you had time to read the Gospels, you'd realise that those words are about living in total peace and harmony. Nothing comes closer to describing that in the Christian religion. If you read the Guru Granth Sahib you would find that it also continuously stresses a peaceful harmonious life. Almost all religions stress this. Read them before you criticise.

Being a bit pick and choose there Ancient Tiger. Although the Gospels on Jesus are a great reboot of the story of Horus; the real juice is in the Old Testament. That's where as you would know the supposed all loving God did most of his estimated 2.4 million killings (not including the flood in the swashbuckling tale of Noah's Ark) recorded in the Bible. On a side note for all those playing at home, the "Devil" was responsible for about 10 deaths.

All Religion comes down to a doomsday cult and you need a specific ticket to hitch a ride to paradise. The world would be better off (not perfect, better off) without it.

 

[Goldust]

I’m sure Gale and the rest of the club don’t want to touch him with a ten foot pole to be honest, but as has been stated their hands are tied to a certain extent.

Act now and Pell and his lawyers will be up in arms and we are suddenly drawn into all those court proceedings.

I’m sure the club is just trying to get on with things without drawing any attention to him as much as possible and will quickly and quietly sever any ties should he ever be found guilty.

Not sure what more the club can really do in these circumstances. Fwiw I think it will be an uphill battle to get a conviction now that most of the charges have been thrown out, fairly easy for his defence to play on that and create reasonable doubt. What happens then is an interesting question, I’m sure the club would still like to not be associated with him in way.

Dumping him as patron would be akin to not granting me any privileges at Bathurst.
I've never been to Bathurst; I don't like V8s or motorsport; and I have no interest in attending.
A bit like Pell and Richmond.
Yes some will try and convince me he's a great guy, who religiously (pun intended) sits on his iPad in the vatican following our progress against Geelong or St Kilda - it don't f***** happen.
Show him the door.

 

[tora tora tora]

I was talking to a bloke today from the 'Byron Bay surfers against chemtrails. Freedom from globalist agendas.' and he reckons Prefect of the Secretariat for the Economy Cardinal Pell was responsible for stealing the Nazi raugold deposited into the Vatican Bank during WW2.
On his day's off Pell's probably having a look at the Royal Commission into Banking. See if he can pick up a few tips. That way he can turn the trip into a tax deduction.

If he gets off..

I wonder if the Vatican bank has intelligent deposit machines like the Commonwealth's. Pell does some sneaky transfer of Vatican lira over to NZ to make sure Shane Martin is keeping well.....and his son Dusty is doing it a bit tough these days. Running out of place to ink hisself