Carl Williams

Discussion in 'Crime' started by Tyrone Time, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. Tyrone Time

    Tyrone Time Cancelled

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    https://www.ombudsman.vic.gov.au/Pu...death-of-Mr-Carl-Williams-at-HM-Barwon-Prison

    Found this at lunch time today and thought I'd share it out of interest.

    Surprised Carl didn't already have his own thread on this board, but here you go.

    Anyway, what got me most about this is the behavior of the prison guards, in particular the supervisor of the section Williams was murdered in. Interesting the link now with Rocco Arico and how it could be related to him and not Dale and Collins that got Williams knocked.
     
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  2. Shadowboxer70

    Shadowboxer70 Debutant

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    Gawd what a waste of taxpayer money and paper. Fat boy had it coming from so many directions they probably only had to throw in five bucks a piece to have him knocked. Well deserved. They should have given him a few years off not 32 years. Killing an old safe cracker/career criminal like the Munster and knowing his close association with Mr Gatto, the guy was begging for it. At least they have some old school code and a touch of class. I would consider the loss of a tree greater.
     
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  3. hirdy_is_champ

    hirdy_is_champ Premiership Player

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    No offence, but have you ever considered the ramifications of this incident? Whether he deserved it or not, this occured in the most "secure" unit of any prison in the state. Corruption had to occur from a number of parties for this, it's slightly concerning....
     
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  4. Shadowboxer70

    Shadowboxer70 Debutant

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    Par for the course. Was always coming and there is corruption in most sectors. Not surprised.
     
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  5. MC Extra Dollop

    MC Extra Dollop Brownlow Medallist

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    There's been thinly-veiled speculation of Arico's involvement for a long time.
     
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  6. Herne Hill Hammer

    Herne Hill Hammer Premium Platinum

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    When I finish my swing and have the time, I'll have a read and comment.

    I was working there the day it happened, not in the unit but had worked in that unit numerous times and had looked after Williams and Johnson plenty of times in another unit within the orison.
     
  7. inamedthegiants

    inamedthegiants Premiership Player

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    As a rank and file cleanskin, corruption does not bother me in the slightest.

    It very, very rarely affects the people that just go about their lives and pay their taxes.
     
  8. Tyrone Time

    Tyrone Time Cancelled

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    I think corruption is very serious, especially as it is the tax payers money!
    The areas of the public service I have been involved with would not tolerate half the behavior in that report.
    The bullying and harassment alone should outrage the tax payer and result in dismissal. Clear breaches of APS Code of conduct.
    There is no doubt that Carl Williams did some horrible things, but surely we have moved past the days of lynch mob justice?
    If Carl was murdered with any inside involvement, it was be exposed and dealt with for the maintenance of a civil society if anything else!
    Conversely if people outside prison are able to order people inside prison murdered, well we need to seriously look how our system is setup and fix it!
     
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  9. inamedthegiants

    inamedthegiants Premiership Player

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    Again, I couldn't care if a prisoner knocks off another prisoner.

    It doesn't affect me as I'm not in prison.
     
  10. HTPunter

    HTPunter Premiership Player

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    Lol.

    Rank and file cleanskins have had their lives ruined because of corruption.

    You're naive. Very naive.
     
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  11. HTPunter

    HTPunter Premiership Player

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    Well I damn hope you're never wrongly convicted of a crime. Obviously Williams was guilty, but do you honestly believe everyone in prison deserves to be there?

    It's a sick, disgusting, naive attitude you have.
     
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  12. inamedthegiants

    inamedthegiants Premiership Player

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    I'm an ex copper.

    Yes I do.
     
  13. Tyrone Time

    Tyrone Time Cancelled

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    The community is really at a loss without you and that massive chip on your shoulder "protecting" us.
     
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  14. inamedthegiants

    inamedthegiants Premiership Player

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    Spoken like a person who has never served others.

    Well done.
     
  15. Tyrone Time

    Tyrone Time Cancelled

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    Yes, apart from my 14 years in the Defence Force, a deployment to East Timor and Afghanistan, I've never served others.
     
  16. inamedthegiants

    inamedthegiants Premiership Player

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    If that's true...

    Thank you.
     
  17. Tyrone Time

    Tyrone Time Cancelled

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    After servicing in some very challenging and difficult situations, your perspective on life changes.
    I once saw life and goodies and baddies, black and white. But the world is full of grey, especially on the two way rifle range.
    There's rules of engagement in war for a reason. I don't think it's unreasonable for the tax payer to expect the same of its prison system.
    We are meant to be a civilised society, different from the "baddie" countries whose values we oppose.
    I don't see how we can condemn these countries, but sit back and think it's okay that natural justice is served to a prisoner whose actions we hate.
    That's no better than lynch mob justice, and risks the entire fabric of a civilised society.
    Carl Williams was filth, but his sentence was 35 years from a court, not a bicycle stem to his skull.

    Appreciated.
     
  18. inamedthegiants

    inamedthegiants Premiership Player

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    I left because I've seen the court system let down the victims of despicable crimes too many times.

    As far as I'm concerned the amount of extra pain a guard can inflict on an inmate to deal out some form of justice, the better. If a guard has to turn a blind eye to see someone like Williams turned out...fine.

    I won't be, and have not lost a wink of sleep over it.

    Anyway, once again, thank you. You have made this country better.
     
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  19. hirdy_is_champ

    hirdy_is_champ Premiership Player

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    Do you really understand the dynamics of a prison? There comes a time where staff have to look after themselves. A prisoner will never forget maltreatment from officers, and they have the means of making them pay.
    That's not to say that what you say about the court system is incorrect by the way, but that is seperate to the prison system.
     
  20. Herne Hill Hammer

    Herne Hill Hammer Premium Platinum

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    Care to share or expand on the highlighted?
     
  21. Herne Hill Hammer

    Herne Hill Hammer Premium Platinum

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    Just finished reading.

    One thing I will say first up is that, even if the console officer was watching the monitor at the precise moment that Johnson approached Williams from behind and clubbed him, there would have been absolutely nothing anyone could have done about it. Because of the nature of the unit, they wouldn't have been able to get in, in time.

    If Johnson hadn't told the officer that Williams had, 'hurt his head', Williams could have lain there in his cell for even longer before being discovered. Contrary to what people may actually think, there are no cameras in cells, only in common areas, exercise areas and externally. Once Johnson dragged Williams back to William's cell and closed the door, there is no way for him to have been seen without an officer physically walking into the unit and opening the cell door.

    Prison management and staff were basically powerless when it came to a lot of decisions about Williams. Because he was helping police, notwithstanding the fact that he was a convicted murderer, he essentially got his way, he wasn't the only one, it was very frustrating.

    If Carl didn't like something he would simply threaten to stop co-operating with the police, they'd have a conniption and then put a lot of pressure on head office to appease him.

    I'd put a lot of blame for the position that Williams found himself in within the prison that lead to him being murdered with VicPol.

    An interesting quote from early in the report and that I agree with is that Williams wasn't prison smart. Despite what he had done, if every prisoner in Barwon conducted themselves the way he did whilst incarcerated, it would have been a much easier place to work in.

    I thought the criticism of the staff in Acacia was a bit rough using it in isolation. The banter and emails between staff like that was prison wide not just confined to that particular unit. There's certainly a black and perverted sense of humour amongst the majority of staff.

    I used to receive some of the emails but don't think I ever forwarded any on. With the email system, when you got a new one, the subject text would be green, once you'd read it, it would change to red. It wouldn't be unusual to come in for a shift after having worked the day before to see that a lot of emails that had been read the day before had changed back to green again. It was an indication that your emails had been checked. Staff used to complain about it, I don't know why, they should never had considered it to be private, it was work provided email for work purposes.

    Acacia, Melaleuca and Banksia, the high security and management units are generally pretty busy due to the regimes run in them but very repetitive. Working first watch (afternoon shift) or second watch (night shift) in them is very boring. Working in most of the rest of the prison is mostly very boring. For most of first watch the crooks are locked up in their cells, they get locked up no later than 4pm, for all of second watch they are locked up in their cells.

    My major concern with the whole episode is the weapon used. If you look up the 'Trial from Hell', Johnson and two others were involved in that and the stem of a bike seat was used there too. I'm not sure if the crook that got attacked used one in self defence, I think that is incorrect, (the report also says that first watch is day shift which is incorrect) I believed that it was one of the weapons used to attack him with, along with a pole from a vacuum cleaner and a sandwich maker. A rowing machine was used to smash their way into the exercise yard to get at the crook.

    There seemed to have been enough crumbs to put together into reasonable intelligence to say that Williams should have been moved, however, I believe that if prison staff had done it, Williams would have complained and been forced to put back again.

    VicPol's excitement at potential intelligence seemed to trump most things. I wonder if they ever got anything worthwhile out of him or if he was just stringing them along for the extra perks?
     
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  22. shellyg

    shellyg Community Leader

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    Anybody know what's going on with this? There was so much more to the story, bit surprised this thread isn't more active actually.
     
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  23. sprockets

    sprockets Club Legend

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    He's getting the attention he deserves.
     
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  24. shellyg

    shellyg Community Leader

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    hah ok but Roberta and her new boobs lives on and what about the guy in charge of Barwon at the time just walked into the bush at Mansfield and never came out again?

    Also, there's Paul Dale. And the Hodsons.
     
  25. Badge666

    Badge666 Debutant

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    Victoria police must have been laughing their heads off privately when Carl Williams pleaded guilty to a number of the Gangland slayings.
    Any big time criminal knows the adage "never ever plead guilty" You are on a hiding to nothing pleading guilty. Things can go wrong at trial and with a not guilty plea. at least you have a glimmer of hope of getting off,.
    Williams seemed genuinely shocked when Justice Betty King gave him a tongue lashing before throwing the sentencing kitchen sink at him. What did he honestly expect.?
    From prison he later expressed remorse about his guilty plea, and it must have dawned on him that co-operation with police was the only way he might make life a bit better for himself and his family. Absolute folly- he should have been trying to cut deals before he was gaoled -not after,,,
    His mate Mokbel also inexplicably entered a guilty plea and must have been kicking himself when subsequent events relating to corrupt drug squad police meant he would have had a good chance of beating a lot of the charges levelled against him.
    Interesting that Matt Johnston was being paid just under 200 bucks a month into his prison buy up account by George Williams. There is little doubt this money was in return for "protection".
    Carl Williams felt it was necessary to inform Johnston of the deals he was doing with Ethical standards from behind bars ,and that he was informing only on corrupt police and not fellow criminals. So it is clear that the Williams trusted him and were completely blindsided by his treacherous act of murder.
    I predict a grim end for Johnston in prison.
     
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