Carlton’s draft failures summed up as Chris Yarran and Troy Menzel are traded away

[THE THIN MAN]

WHEN Chris Yarran and Troy Menzel departed Carlton in the final two days of the trade window, it closed the final chapter of a disastrous drafting period for the Blues.

Yarran was the club’s first-round draft pick in 2008, Menzel the club’s first choice in 2012.

In that five-year period, Carlton took 18 players from the draft. Going into the 2016 season, only three remain.

When you factor in that one was a father-son selection in Dylan Buckley and another was a mature-aged recruit in Sam Rowe, it makes for damning reading.

The only other player remaining from that cursed crop is Nick Graham.

Constant chopping and changing of a young playing list is not the way to build a premiership side, as Hawthorn has exemplified over the last decade.

The Hawks team that won their first premiership in 2008 had retained 20 of 23 players drafted from the five years prior.

It was a crop that was built on the foundations of solid early drafting.

Such strong, bold, premiership-winning early recruitment has not been reflected at Carlton.

In contrast, the Blues’ first five picks from that five-year period have all left the club.

Yarran has recently been traded to Richmond, Kane Lucas was delisted and joined West Coast, Matthew Watson also delisted, Josh Bootsma sacked and Menzel now finds himself at Adelaide.

In fact, between 2008 and 2012, Carlton does not have a single player still on its list taken inside the top 40.

It’s no surprise Carlton moved heaven and earth in an attempt to lure Hawthorn recruiter Graham Wright to the club in 2014. Ultimately, they settled on Stephen Silvagni.

Now he has the opportunity to make amends having taken a strong stance at the trade table.

Without a 30-goal season in his six years at Carlton, forward Lachie Henderson was traded to Geelong in a deal that left the Blues with pick 8 after some clever work with GWS.

Elsewhere, Menzel, Yarran and Tom Bell also left in deals that effectively landed the Blues picks 11 and 19, in addition to five players from GWS and Adelaide — of which only one is above 23 years of age.

Collectively, it could mean Carlton has as many as 20 players under the age of 22 on its list in 2016.

If club chiefs wanted a full list rebuild, they have certainly got one.

“It’s a two-phase approach by getting some talented young boys in with a couple of years experience and also getting some low draft picks to get some really talented players in,” football manager Andrew McKay told the club’s website.

Now for the hard work.

Carlton is expected to take classy defender Jacob Weitering with pick 1 in November’s national draft and will consider more key position talent with later selections.

But it must not waste draft picks like it has in the past. Otherwise more heartache lies ahead.

Carlton’s dark draft days (2008-2012)

GONE

Chris Yarran, Pick 6, 2008

Mitch Robinson, Pick 40, 2008

Rhys O’Keeffe, Pick 65, 2008

Caleb Tiller, Pick 80, 2008

Kane Lucas, Pick 12, 2009

Marcus Davies, Pick 43, 2009

Rohan Kerr, Pick 59, 2009

Matthew Watson, Pick 18, 2010

Patrick McCarthy, Pick 34, 2010

Luke Mitchell, Pick 42, 2010

Andrew McInnes, Pick 67, 2010

Nick Duigan, Pick 70, 2010

Josh Bootsma, Pick 22, 2011

Troy Menzel, Pick 11, 2012

Tom Temay, Pick 35, 2012

STILL THERE

Sam Rowe, Pick 44, 2011

Dylan Buckley, Pick 62 (Father-Son), 2011

Nick Graham, Pick 54, 2012

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-are-traded-away/story-fnp04d70-1227582634119

 

[Sherrinator]

What are you hoping to achieve by highlighting the obvious Richmond supporter?

 

[Monkey King]

Just look through that list of drafted players. And yet some bright sparks still insist it's "the Judd trade" that's to blame for our current woes

 

[Procrastinator35]

Just look through that list of drafted players. And yet some bright sparks still insist it's "the Judd trade" that's to blame for our current woes

The Judd trade was probably more an exemplar & indicative of the old-school Carlton mind-set, of seeking short-cuts to success as against a long-term strategy.....Ratten's sacking in the face of appointing Malthouse in his stead, was much along the same lines.

Those 2 decisions were the principal catalysts which have landed the Blues where they now sit....Back at Square one.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

I'm so glad that I support a club which hasn't completely screwed up year after year of drafts...

 

[Monkey King]

Those 2 decisions were the principal catalysts which have landed the Blues where they now sit....

I call total bullshit on the idea. People get stuck on the symbolism and because it's so lazily simple to point to the biggest thing in the room and say "hey, that's why". In reality though, nothing but simplistic bullshit IMO.

Just look through that list of players. That's the reason Carlton are where they are to today. They nailed the Judd recruitment. Nailed it! If they'd nailed their other recruitment as well as they did the Judd one they'd still be playing finals. If they'd kept JK and Morton (the rumoured preference with pick 3) and went along the same path, they'd probably be even as worse now, but without the ride up to finals.

No, getting Judd was the catalyst for Carlton becoming a finals side. All these other recruitment stuff ups were the cumulative reason why they never went further than a kick of the prelim before sliding off the pace. Malthouse was the cherry on top that sent us crashing to the bottom.

 

[BPikkers]

What are you hoping to achieve by highlighting the obvious Richmond supporter?

Yeah, the Tigers make 3 finals (and yet to win one with the even blues defeating them) and they feel they have the right to lecture and point out the obvious of other clubs.

The blues will probably win a premiership before the Tigers anyway.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I call total bullshit on the idea. People get stuck on the symbolism and because it's so lazily simple to point to the biggest thing in the room and say "hey, that's why". In reality though, nothing but simplistic bullshit IMO.

Malthouse was the cherry on top that sent us crashing to the bottom.

You can call bullshit all you like. The gravitas of your nomenclature won't change the facts....The philosophy underlying the decision to sack Ratten & replace him with Malthouse has led to a multitude of defections out of your club....It's almost as if they couldn't get out of there quick enough!

As for the Judd coup?....You sold a big slice of your future for a bloke with dodgy groins, who wasn't half the player he was at West Coast....Including a very large brown-paper-bag full of $$$, which the AFL conveniently ignored/ sanctioned.

Cherry on the top?....Hardly....Try the final nail in the old-school, quickie-fix, 80's style culture-coffin!

 

[KnobHead]

As for the Judd coup?....You sold a big slice of your future for a bloke with dodgy groins, who wasn't half the player he was at West Coast....Including a very large brown-paper-bag full of $$$, which the AFL conveniently ignored/ sanctioned.

Yeah, I guess, ... although while at Carlton Judd did win a brownlow medal, made All-Australian a few times, and still won captain of the year awards.

But hey they're just facts.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Yeah, I guess, ... although while at Carlton Judd did win a brownlow medal, made All-Australian a few times, and still won captain of the year awards.

But hey they're just facts.

Last time I checked; The 2 blokes you traded away for him just played off in a Grand final & were big factors/contributors in getting the Eagles there....And yet, Blues fans try their best to play down the significance of the future sacrifice paid in acquiring Judd....And that's not including the massive dent in your salary-cap.

Meanwhile, over at Carlton....Another wooden spoon adorns your walls & the legacy of the Judd-meister lies in ruins!....Coincidence?

We saw what the Fevola move did to Brisbane....How has the Judd move been an improvement on that?....Little wonder why Carlton & Brisbane have picks 1 & 2 in the draft!

 

[Beer n Skittles]

I'm sitting in front of a computer. There's computers in the Pentagon. Therefore I must be in the Pentagon

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

The OP suggested that the recruitment at Carlton was the problem. I'm not so sure. I think Carlton's issues are more related to development and culture. In a lot of ways they have failed to develop highly rated young players where other teams, are able to pick up poorly rated rookies and turn them into good AFL players. Also look at some of the players that the blues have let go to other clubs and they have developed or at least improved at other clubs. Kennedy, Grigg, Betts, Waite, Garlett and Robertson all have looked better at other clubs. I expect similar improvements from Menzel and Henderson. Maybe someone should pick up Watson, he might be the next Carl Hooker.

 

[SeVi]

I think it's important to look at 2000 to 2015 not just 2008 to 2012. We were punished, we suffered penalties, include huge financial sanctions. So money was an issue, which ended up costing us in terms of development.

What bothers me isn't the nonsense comments about Judd - only since he's retired by the way - but the telling us that Yaz and Menzel where mistakes. We traded Menzel for long term gain, and Yarran is the same. We traded assets with currency for good solid return. Yes, we need to draft well - but the last time we had 2 picks inside ten we took Murphy and Kennedy. Neither have been mistakes.

It's always the same - trading is purely about what you bring in. We'll see if Geelong wins a flag with Danger, honestly I don't think it will happen. Clubs dont often win premierships during trade week, but they do during drafts.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

A Richmond supporter making a thread about draft failures...I though I'd never see the day....

Lets go through the list....Tambling..Fiora...JON.....

Carlton's drafting has been fine lately. Not as if Yarran was a waste, just that he was the 'icing' on the cake rather than the 'cake' itself so to speak. Menzel was easily best available at that selection.

 

[Gone Critical]

Think Carlton's biggest problem in the last 15 years is they have been reactive rather than a leader. Lots of big statements and them follow the leader. People can end it any which way but losing Yarran and Menzel is a terrible look. There isn't much natural talent on the list and they have just lost 2 of the 3 good younger talents they have. Menzel in particular looked a star in the making.

I am a fan of Judds but in hindsight the trade benefited WCE more. Lucky outcome for Kennedy. Whether Kennedy would have developed at Carlton is questionable. Is SOS the answer. It has a bit of a quick fix whiff about it. SOS is unproven as a recruiter. His job at GWS was a different gig. Pick the eyes out of the top picks. It's not hard. Carlton face another long down time.

 

[VaultWanderer]

A Richmond supporter making a thread about draft failures...I though I'd never see the day....

Lets go through the list....Tambling..Fiora...JON.....

Carlton's drafting has been fine lately. Not as if Yarran was a waste, just that he was the 'icing' on the cake rather than the 'cake' itself so to speak. Menzel was easily best available at that selection.

Not sure richmond is relevant when it comes to talking about draft failures any more. Richmond have been very good in the area in the last 6 or 7 years in finding good talent

 

[aussierulesrules]

Wow, that makes for some horrible reading. I loved it, thanks Thin Man.

 

[Bostonian]

Last time I checked; The 2 blokes you traded away for him just played off in a Grand final & were big factors/contributors in getting the Eagles there....And yet, Blues fans try their best to play down the significance of the future sacrifice paid in acquiring Judd....And that's not including the massive dent in your salary-cap.

Meanwhile, over at Carlton....Another wooden spoon adorns your walls & the legacy of the Judd-meister lies in ruins!....Coincidence?

We saw what the Fevola move did to Brisbane....How has the Judd move been an improvement on that?....Little wonder why Carlton & Brisbane have picks 1 & 2 in the draft!

Judd has played a big part in mentoring Cripps. That looks like it's going to pay off handsomely.

I suppose we could have used the same sports "doctors" you used to try and fudge our performances the back door way.

 

[Monkey King]

You can call bullshit all you like.

Yup I do call bullshit. The most simplistic thing to do is point to the symbolism of Judd's recruitment being a progression of the 80's style mentality. Which I don't even know what that means unless you're talking about the 86' interstate recruit bonanza, but even that doesn't match up with getting one of the league's best. Only thing that comes anywhere near that was getting Willaims for 92'. Beyond that though, Carlton never really went the big poach. It's really just a puddle of parroted innuendo and loose correlations.

But nah, what JK and Masten (who Carlton weren't going to select anyway, in-line with the topic of this thread, preferring Cale Morton) did this year, among 20 other teammates is just more overly simplistic waffle. The list above speaks for itself in where Carlton have gone wrong. If we'd got that right, Ratten would unlikely have even been sacked. Malthouse was a mistake. But that's like saying water is wet.

 

[Monkey King]

Also look at some of the players that the blues have let go to other clubs and they have developed or at least improved at other clubs. Kennedy, Grigg, Betts, Waite, Garlett and Robertson all have looked better at other clubs.

Waite, Betts, Garlett and Robinson developed by other clubs? Turn it up! Two of these drafted and developed by the Blues outside the main draft btw.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Yup I do call bullshit. The most simplistic thing to do is point to the symbolism of Judd's recruitment being a progression of the 80's style mentality. Which I don't even know what that means unless you're talking about the 86' interstate recruit bonanza, but even that doesn't match up with getting one of the league's best. Only thing that comes anywhere near that was getting Willaims for 92'. Beyond that though, Carlton never really went the big poach. It's really just a puddle of parroted innuendo and loose correlations.

But nah, what JK and Masten (who Carlton weren't going to select anyway, in-line with the topic of this thread, preferring Cale Morton) did this year, among 20 other teammates is just more overly simplistic waffle. The list above speaks for itself in where Carlton have gone wrong. If we'd got that right, Ratten would unlikely have even been sacked. Malthouse was a mistake. But that's like saying water is wet.

Perhaps the point I'm attempting to get across to you, will finally sink in once the Swans also begin their inevitable slide into oblivion, on the back of the Buddy deal....Judd was only ever after the money & it was always ever only about himself....No one doubts his professionalism, but the way he played the game & led by example was always as a one-dimensional down-hill skier. Which pretty much became symbolic of the style of play that epitomized the Blues under his reign.

The pandering to the blokes ego meant a large-slice of your salary cap was wasted on 1 player, who had zero defensive accountability & cost the club it's future gun forward & a top midfielder, as well as likely, another 2 well-paid quality players on your list....But never mind all that....He & Carlton by extension, have 3 AA's & a brownlow to show for the past decade, which more than compensates for the 2 finals failures in that same era....Not to mention the fact that your mob has another spoon to show for it, & are right back where you started, when you first recruited him.

Like the man said: Fully symbolic of your club's short-sighted BS approach to drafting & recruiting....It takes 22 blokes & a close-knit squad to win a premiership....At W/C, Judd was surrounded by other stars, whereas at Carlton, he had all the lime-light to himself....Remind you of anyone???

You then followed that up by going for the same quick-fix on the coaching front, by appointing another high-profile ego-maniac, to take you to the promised-land. Who blew $4 million dollars, & alienated most of the senior squad on your list with an out-dated & out-moded style, which included the recruitment of a lame-ass has-been, on $650k per year....GENIUS!

But nah....That's just all BS, apparently.....Once more & with feeling!....Your boards' philosophy & short-sighted desire for a short-cut to success & fame, is THE principal reason & cause for the predicament the Blues find themselves in today....With the Judd & Malthouse appointments, fully symbolic of such an approach & the principal catalysts in your downwards spiral.....Culture.

Yeah: Judd is such a pretty footballer to watch..... But give me a Hodge/Mitchell everyday of the week ahead of him. For they have an equal share of defensive accountability to an attacking mind-set & are willing to sacrifice mega $$$, by setting the example, so as to allow a balanced cap & a quality list to ensure TEAM SUCCESS.

 

[My name geoff]

The Judd trade was probably more an exemplar & indicative of the old-school Carlton mind-set, of seeking short-cuts to success as against a long-term strategy.....Ratten's sacking in the face of appointing Malthouse in his stead, was much along the same lines.

Those 2 decisions were the principal catalysts which have landed the Blues where they now sit....Back at Square one.

The Judd recruitment was not a short cut to success. Recruiting Judd was a good move (although we overpaid) The reason Carlton failed is because they had 2 half hearted list strategies going on at the same time during that period.

They recruited Judd had Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezer, Stevens, Fevola, simpson, betts, Scotland, Jamison, Walker and Warnock as the core of the list but insisted on recruiting youth during the following off seasons rather than aggressively trading for players that could of had an instant impact.

If Carlton had a list strategy similar to the Hawks, and traded 1st round picks for established players like Gibson, Burgoyne, Gunston, Lake instead of bootsma, Lucas, Watson, Yarran then Carlton could well have been in a position to be a serious contender while Judd was in his prime.

 

[The Farmer]

Last time I checked; The 2 blokes you traded away for him just played off in a Grand final & were big factors/contributors in getting the Eagles there....And yet, Blues fans try their best to play down the significance of the future sacrifice paid in acquiring Judd....And that's not including the massive dent in your salary-cap.

Meanwhile, over at Carlton....Another wooden spoon adorns your walls & the legacy of the Judd-meister lies in ruins!....Coincidence?

We saw what the Fevola move did to Brisbane....How has the Judd move been an improvement on that?....Little wonder why Carlton & Brisbane have picks 1 & 2 in the draft!

So Collingwood is going to win the spoon soon or is it Geelong?

 

[Mr Magic]

Just look through that list of pucked players. And yet some bright sparks still insist it's "the Judd trade" that's to blame for our current woes

Actually I would have thought the Judd trade is highlighted.

Not many high draft picks used and list management obviously off kilter.

I was talking to an older Blues supporter recently about the CFC situation and he seemed to think the problems started from letting go Fev so who knows what the issues where. No doubt they would have been complex and not simple as the corporate bludgers like to operate in the shadows using stealth.

One thing about the Judd trade is, if the operators had NFI what they were doing, it creates a lovely diversion and smoke and mirror play regarding causes of issues to protect some and at least buy a few more years of salary income windfall at an opportune time like with many other structures

 

[LeverPuller]

I'm so glad that I support a club which hasn't completely screwed up year after year of drafts...

Last two have been better at least