Carlton 2005 - please explain

[legendtofski]

I want honest, mature discussion here, but here's how I see it:

1. End of 2004 our recylced team 'click' and alomost made the 8.
2. We had an AMAZING pre-season and won the WIZARD CUP.
3. We are hot faves for the spoon.

How could this all go so wrong so quickly?

OK. So T-Bird and Livo were injured early on, but that doesn't discount the rest of the list.

CONFIDENCE? I thought we had one of the best most inspiring coaches in the leage - shouldn't he be doing that?

SKILL? OK we are the LEAST skilled team in the comp. Prenda and Scotland kick like idiots.

AGE? WE are the youngest list, but by about 4 weeks. That is one of the biggest EXCUSES I've ever heard.

DRAFT? OK. Dimisimitrious HAS burned us bad BUT many of our core crap players were picked up BEFORE the penalties.

It's just driving me nuts. And why or why isn't Denis using bloody DISCIPLINE on the players? Maybe it's DENIS that is to blame, and nobody wants to talk about it. Maybe his genius gameplan was good for North 10 years ago, but the game has changed radically??

 

[Magpies2005]

u cant put the blame on dennis pagan! his trying to work with the lsit he has got. u cant compare what he did with north of the early 90's to the carlton team they had champions starting off.

u cant blame the AFL for taking ur picks a few years ago u do the crime ur got to do the time thats fair and simple.

maybe last year was a bad thing coz most of the players might have thought we were close to the 8 so we only got to improve a little bit then after the pre-season carlton dominated and won the comp the players thought here we go.

just stick by them it will turn around pagan will make some changers and it will be a team u the top end of the ladder soon just take some time

 

[stokesy]

I'll reply tommorow morning when I have though about tonights game.

 

[Roadrunner]

No explanation is needed. Pagan just got what he wanted $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Silvagnis]

Dollars the Kangaroos still don't have and which they could only get from Rupert Murdoch to pay him.

 

[Fevalenko25]

No explanation is needed. Pagan just got what he wanted $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Your a Dik head...

 

[coasting]

You over-achieved last year with a bunch of triers. The wizard cup is an illusion, it means nothing because not all teams try to win it. This year a number of your senior players got old quickly, Campo particularly comes to mind. Thing is, players like Campo, Whitnall and Kouta should have been traded off years ago to kick-start a real rebuilding process. For whatever reason Pagan hasn't done that, he created an artificial sense of rebuilding by bringing in recycled players and hasn't done enough hard yards with genuine young talent. You are now worse off because of it.

 

[Fevalenko25]

You over-achieved last year with a bunch of triers. The wizard cup is an illusion, it means nothing because not all teams try to win it. This year a number of your senior players got old quickly, Campo particularly comes to mind. Thing is, players like Campo, Whitnall and Kouta should have been traded off years ago to kick-start a real rebuilding process. For whatever reason Pagan hasn't done that, he created an artificial sense of rebuilding by bringing in recycled players and hasn't done enough hard yards with genuine young talent. You are now worse off because of it.

Give us some draft picks and we'll play pretty footy for you

 

[tapestry]

Give us some draft picks and we'll play pretty footy for you

No need for the smiley there - you're comment IMO is on the mark.

Carlton were relegated to years at the bottom by the penalties the AFL applied for the salary cap fiasco. The AFL got it wrong in my opinion. They pinged the club's ability for a priority pick based on previous years breaches - that was wrong. They punished the club the wrong way. Draft picks - fair enough - but priority picks? Stupid stupid stupid mistake by the AFL. Pinging a club in a year it 'earned' those picks because they screwed up in previous years? It was unfair and long term detremental. It has denied Carlton the ability to nuture new players and set them back a good 2 or 3 years on all other clubs. That's a long term punishment, but was never seen that way at the time by the powers that be - or in other words - bad management at the AFL.

You can't blame Pagan. IMO he's done bloody well with what he's got. Regardless of the 'baby lions' tag my team has at the moment - there's still enough experience and more than enough behind the scenes experience to expose a side like Carlton. And that's not something Carlton can do something about because they don't have the players coming through. A team without onfield resources is always going to falter against a team stacked with off-field resources and a whack of onfileld experience under their belt.

Carlton have to (and will) keep plugging away and will eventually get back up there. The AFL's too harsh and incorrect stand has just meant it will take them a couple of years longer to go the cycle than all the other teams.

 

[droppuntkick23]

You can blame Pagan.
Its common knowledge he left the Kangaroos for more money,something to do with security for the future his wife said.
Also what might of worked 10 years ago doesnt necessary means it works in todays football.

 

[RoK]

No explanation is needed. Pagan just got what he wanted $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

$ your team has no $

 

[its just sporn mum]

im behind dennis all the way.

 

[Grechy]

Well from Richmond to Carlton, here's your wooden spoon.

 

[Fevalenko25]

Well from Richmond to Carlton, here's your wooden spoon.

Yay!! and some draft picks!!

 

[legendtofski]

It just **********as me Dimsimitrious and his imbalanced 'national' vision - the guy wears glasses the filthy Cypriot dog.

Teams like Brisbane get handed flags on a golden plate, yet his stoopid 'vision' can't make Sydney more than 'above average' - I mean at least Dr.Edelsten got Sydney further than Dimsimitriou!

And all the interstate teams are just 'state of origin' team against local Victorian sides.

But Dimisitriou has caused more damage than good, and it's about time he getsd sacked and back emptying vats of dimisim and potato cake oil like he was born to do. He prolly runs a fish n chip shop better than a football league!

 

[pauld]

CONFIDENCE? I thought we had one of the best most inspiring coaches in the leage - shouldn't he be doing that?

He is not that good I'm afraid. With North he brought through a once in a lifetime crop of kids from the under 19's to the seniors to a Premiership. Never again will he, or us, see the likes of Carey, Archer, Martyn etc all in one team.
He could not fail with that team and the amount of time he had to develop them.
With the Blues he is a bit befuddled, we can not play Pagans Paddock as we dont have the players to do it, instantly that is his one great idea gone.
And Dennis does keep saying we have the youngest list...but most play VFL.
Our senior team is very senior, with Kouta, Lappin, Campo etc hardly kids.
We should have got in a good youthful coach and spent the money saved on a key position player down back.
If Dennis is so good, why can't he lift this team at the huddles, they just go and get worse. Surely they are not playing to his instructions, is so getting beaten shows the tactics are no good.
I still do not know why Lance can not be left right in front of the sticks at full forward the whole game. Sure he is fairly tall, has good brains, but cant a Prender do that to ?
W would be a lot more dangerous with Lance staying in goal all game worrying the oppostion defence and Fev backing up at CHF and Ediie running off them, rather than the opposition sytanding two defenders on Fev knowing he is always going to be looked for. Thats if our midfielders can kick straight that is.
Love the Blues, but the coach really needs to play to our strengths, instead of playing players out of position...and leaving some on the bench way too long.
Against the Lions it was highlighted in commentary that the Lions had the luxury of resting Voss, while Kouta was out there all game because no one was good enough to replace him. That says to me there is something wrong with the coach also if he can not find one player to give Kouta a rest.
Waite springs to mind, he could have gone in. With poor old Kouta being flogged like a dead horse all game he will not last long.

 

[goalpie]

Thank God Scotland hasnt turned out to be a star.

 

[Go_Blueboyzzz]

IMO on this issue, there has been only one person who has actually talked common sense in their 3 replies, and that is FEVALENKO...all u people love pagan when you see us winning a few games, though now we have lost 6 in a a row it is his fault. Stop talking ********. One person is to balme , and that is "JOHN ELLIOT"...if he hadnt have done all the bull********, these are the players carlton would have, also include some mid thirties picks as well. ready:
- goddard
- wells
- rivers
- brock mclean
.......imagine the carlton side growing at the moment with walker, stevens, fevola, fisher, waite, thornton just to name a few. .......As we do not have these players we are forced to use others, who are not of a great standard (Morrell etc.) You cannot blame a coach who walks into a club missing these quality of players coming through............again THINK people before commenting (analyse and get the facts straight all you ********as!).